Bisexuality / Homosexuality and Radical Feminism - Connection ?

[Peepers]

My ancestry is almost all English. We had to wait until the children were gone before we could visit. We had a great time, except for one hair raising right hand turn.

Rome is far more entertaining to drive in than Rome. Istanbul ranks in my top ten also.

 

[Peepers]

I meant Rome over London.

 

[Peepers]

The first time I drove in England, it was near the track on opening day at Ascott, with the Queen due to arrive any moment. I managed to take the mirror off of a cops motorcycle with my own car’s mirror. After that experience, I decided that every urban cop needs to go to London for lessons on how to be a good cop in an urban environment. Oh yeah… right turns can be a problem for Americans in England. Crossing the street can be a challenge too.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’ve always wanted to visit Turkey. How was Instanbul? My mom refuses to go there after watching “Midnight Express!”

Rome is far more entertaining to drive in than Rome. Istanbul ranks in my top ten also.

 

[Peepers]

I’ve always wanted to visit Turkey. How was Instanbul? My mom refuses to go there after watching “Midnight Express!”

Turkey is amazing. You can stand in the amphitheater at Ephesus and imagine Paul there, and then go to the site of Mary’s home nearby. The Hagia Sophia may be the oldest structure standing which was a Christian church. There are islands in the sea of marmar with churches dating to 4 or 5 AD. When I was there, they just started locking the doors on one of them because an artifact was stolen. 15 centuries of leaving the doors open. In the center of the country, you can climb up into the home of an early Christian hermit dating from the first few centuries, and see the white washed ceiling with a red cross painted on it. There is a monastery carved in stone caves… like the flinstones… it goes on and on. And then the muslim culture overlaid with the mosques and all. It is quite an adventure.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The key is to not try to smuggle hasheesh home on the plane! (little Midnight Express humor!)

Seriously though, I’ve always wanted to go to Turkey (former Asia Minor) and walk the footsteps of Paul. Haggia Sophia is AWESOME. I’ve always wanted to see it up close.

Did that trip make you also interested in exploring Orthodoxy as well as Catholicism?

Turkey is amazing. You can stand in the amphitheater at Ephesus and imagine Paul there, and then go to the site of Mary’s home nearby. The Hagia Sophia may be the oldest structure standing which was a Christian church. There are islands in the sea of marmar with churches dating to 4 or 5 AD. When I was there, they just started locking the doors on one of them because an artifact was stolen. 15 centuries of leaving the doors open. In the center of the country, you can climb up into the home of an early Christian hermit dating from the first few centuries, and see the white washed ceiling with a red cross painted on it. There is a monastery carved in stone caves… like the flinstones… it goes on and on. And then the muslim culture overlaid with the mosques and all. It is quite an adventure.

 

[elvisman]

You’re right about that. I dunno, I am no expert in this field. I did some counseling work in Grad school but thats about it. I have to study developmental psychology as a nursing student.

So as for the success stories, if the individuals did truly overcome their same sex attractions, and it benefitted them morally and spiritually, thats great. We don’t understand the causes of homosexuality yet, and as I said already, both the ex-gay and the pro homosexual movements make assumptions about its causes. Maybe its a variety of factors, maybe those factors shape each case of homosexuality differently and uniquely. So perhaps some people can become ex-gay.

On the other hand, I have met many people that were emotionally and psychologically damaged by “ex-gay” or repairative therapy. Given the Catholic Church’s position in the matter, which is my own personal position regarding homosexuality, I cannot take the position that a homosexual has to become “ex-gay” to make it heaven. If homosexual, chastity is what God asks of them only. So in the ministerial work I have and continue to engage in, I tell people they are under no complusion to become ex-gay. I leave that up to the Holy Spirit. Christ made us fishers of men, but its the Holy Spirits job to clean the fish. We catch them.

Hope that makes sense.

I agree. It’s not the condition or proclivity - it is whether or not it is acted upon - and the same goes for fornication for heterosexuals.

 

[elvisman]

… and with that statement to offer proof of my point.

You do not have the right to verbal abuse. You may find that people (such as your family) stop having to walk on eggshells around you if you get a handle on that. It is time to stop looking outward Elvis. Take a look inside. You might also want to take a close look at why you are so upset about the gay stuff.

**I’m not at all upset by homosexuality or homosexualy. I merely tell the truth, as taught by Christ’s Church.

**If anything upsets me - it the radical homosexual agenda that has hijacked the term, “tolerance” by forcing people to celebrate homosexuality. Tolerance is one thing - celebration is quite another.

As G. K. Chesterton said, "Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions."
How much more accurate is that statement is today . . .

 

[Peepers]

**I’m not at *all ***upset by homosexuality or homosexualy. I merely tell the truth, as taught by Christ’s Church.

**If anything upsets me - it the *radical ***homosexual agenda that has hijacked the term, “tolerance” by forcing people to celebrate homosexuality. Tolerance is one thing - celebration is quite another.

As G. K. Chesterton said, “Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.”
How much more accurate is that statement is today . . .

Glad to hear that. It is easy to get a false impression of people on these forums because the mode of contact is so abbreviated. People (including myself) sometimes form quick impressions which are not accurate.

 

[bhall0689]

**I’m not at *all ***upset by homosexuality or homosexualy. I merely tell the truth, as taught by Christ’s Church.

**If anything upsets me - it the *radical ***homosexual agenda that has hijacked the term, “tolerance” by forcing people to celebrate homosexuality. Tolerance is one thing - celebration is quite another.

As G. K. Chesterton said, “Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.”
How much more accurate is that statement is today . . .

This might be off-topic - but why on Earth do you use the different emphases/font colors? It’s incredibly distracting and aesthetically horrible.

 

[John21652]

**I’m not at *all ***upset by homosexuality or homosexualy. I merely tell the truth, as taught by Christ’s Church.

**If anything upsets me - it the *radical ***homosexual agenda that has hijacked the term, “tolerance” by forcing people to celebrate homosexuality. Tolerance is one thing - celebration is quite another.

As G. K. Chesterton said, “Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.”
How much more accurate is that statement is today . . .

 

[Peepers]

The key is to not try to smuggle hasheesh home on the plane! (little Midnight Express humor!)

Seriously though, I’ve always wanted to go to Turkey (former Asia Minor) and walk the footsteps of Paul. Haggia Sophia is AWESOME. I’ve always wanted to see it up close.

Did that trip make you also interested in exploring Orthodoxy as well as Catholicism?

I was traveling with a Christian friend who grew up there. Many of her friends were Muslim, but also we were taken in by the Christian community sometimes. They are clearly a minority of the population. There seemed almost a sense of hanging out with members of a secret society to me. I remember spending the morning with a small group. at what I guess you would call the rectory of their small church. It was purely a social event. One guy took me aside and started pointing out details in the masonry and tiles on the floor which had historic significance to them. My interests at the time were more archaeological and historic. These days, I would be more likely to have engaged someone in philosophic or religious discussions.

 

[Peepers]

Yeah… that would be a sinking feeling to be standing in your shorts with your hands over your head and drugs taped to your torso… it would only get worse from there.

The mosques have no imagery in them, so when they took over churches, they would plaster the walls to cover any images and tile work which expressed Christianity. There are small portions of the Hagia Sophia where the plaster has been removed to expose the original gold tiles. It is quite remarkable. I forget how many pounds or tons of gold went into the place. I found myself trying to imagine what it would have looked like in its day illuminated by candles. The variety of stone used in the construction is notable too. Every dome maker of the renaissance was inspired by its dome… and so on.

Another thing not to miss at Ephesus is the facade of the great library there, built by Alexander. I was just a kid the first time I was there. I remember being impressed that they had just identified the remains in a sarcophagus as being Cleopatra’s step-sister. Mary’s “house” is a small structure up in the woods above Ephesus. There is a continuous prayer vigil there. Their is a street paved in white marble, lined by both Greek and Roman columns. As I already mentioned, the amphitheater is well preserved. I stood in it and tried to imagine Paul proselytizing there.

 

[praxising]

I pointed out what 2 experts on homosexual behavior concluded in their separate, independent research -* not* my own opinion, so calm down.

They aren’t experts, they’re morons. I did like the “calm down” though, I wonder if you are going to ask her next if she’s on her period? Did someone get a time machine and suddenly turn this thread back to 1957?

1st: Radical feminism is not what is described in the OP. That’s just feminism. * Radical* feminism advocated violent response to abuse of women and their children by men. As in: beat up my sister and we’ll (Edited). Not that bad an idea, as little else seems to work.

2nd: Actual science of the modern variety has identified the genetic mechanism through which same-sex attraction is transmitted. I don’t think they have the locus, yet, but they know how it works and what the evolutionary benefit is. Keep in mind that same-sex preference occurs naturally in every vertebrate species ever studied with a social culture, including fish, chickens and horses. Chimps are just shameless! Since this trait appears at a rather predictable rate in most species, you can just chalk it up to the way nature works in this case, including in humans. It’s God’s creation, folks, and who are we to argue?

3rd: We have a long way to go in this fight and I hope all the old guard XYs die off quickly before they further contaminate the younger generation of men and women.

Fact: 80% of women in the United States have been sexually assaulted in some degree before the age of 21, and 35% of those were assaulted by a close family member.

The further fact is: when you interview the men, over 90% say and seem to believe, they haven’t done anything wrong.

(I might just add that modern reproductive technology has actually made XYs obsolete.)

 

[John21652]

They aren’t experts, they’re morons. I did like the “calm down” though, I wonder if you are going to ask her next if she’s on her period? Did someone get a time machine and suddenly turn this thread back to 1957?

1st: Radical feminism is not what is described in the OP. That’s just feminism. * Radical* feminism advocated violent response to abuse of women and their children by men. As in: beat up my sister and (Edited). Not that bad an idea, as little else seems to work.

2nd: Actual science of the modern variety has identified the genetic mechanism through which same-sex attraction is transmitted. I don’t think they have the locus, yet, but they know how it works and what the evolutionary benefit is. Keep in mind that same-sex preference occurs naturally in every vertebrate species ever studied with a social culture, including fish, chickens and horses. Chimps are just shameless! Since this trait appears at a rather predictable rate in most species, you can just chalk it up to the way nature works in this case, including in humans. It’s God’s creation, folks, and who are we to argue?

3rd: We have a long way to go in this fight and I hope all the old guard XYs die off quickly before they further contaminate the younger generation of men and women.

Fact: 80% of women in the United States have been sexually assaulted in some degree before the age of 21, and 35% of those were assaulted by a close family member.

The further fact is: when you interview the men, over 90% say and seem to believe, they haven’t done anything wrong.

(I might just add that modern reproductive technology has actually made XYs obsolete.)

What a load of piffle. Radical feminism is exactly what is described in the OP.(Edited)

 

[Peepers]

2nd: Actual science of the modern variety has identified the genetic mechanism through which same-sex attraction is transmitted. I don’t think they have the locus, yet, but they know how it works and what the evolutionary benefit is. Keep in mind that same-sex preference occurs naturally in every vertebrate species ever studied with a social culture, including fish, chickens and horses. Chimps are just shameless! Since this trait appears at a rather predictable rate in most species, you can just chalk it up to the way nature works in this case, including in humans. It’s God’s creation, folks, and who are we to argue?

Hi Praxising -

Do you have anything backing up your genetic claim other than the research on Xq28? The evidence is seen as compelling by some, but not accepted yet as conclusive, IMHO.

I agree that your opinion that multi species incidence is compelling. The semantics of that gets complicated because the RCC view of what is “natural” derives from theological tradition, and not from the life sciences (obviously). So folks get into these arguments where they are using the same word completely differently.

I have not followed it for a while, but it seemed to me that the biologic evidence was accumulating when I was following it more closely. Do you have any references that i can look at? It will be interesting to see how the Church handles the news if the trends continue to point toward biological causation.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Feminism is about fairness. Radical feminism is about women imitating the sexual behavior of the men they hate.

That was deep, guy. Think I will borrow it for some future intellectual discussion.

 

[Peepers]

What a load of piffle. Radical feminism is exactly what is described in the OP. The sum of your knowledge as displayed in the rest of your post matches the first point you made.

I like the word “piffle”, John. Actually claim number two has some merit. There was a genetic study in 1993 which claimed to establish the genetic link to male homosexuality. That study was refuted in 1999. The original author stands by his results. One of the challenges with nailing down the scientific data is that gay folks traditionally have not reproduced. So, the studies have been limited to twins, uncles, etc… Now that more gays are using in vitro methods to reproduce, we may be seeing some conclusive evidence one way or the other before long. I am not on top of any current studies, but I’m sure some will be popping up if they are not ongoing at this time. The most prudent statements at this point in time would hold back on an opinion until more evidence comes in. There is some evidence, which has been questioned, that homosexuality in males is simply a biological variation with genetic markers, and which occurs with fixed regularity even across species boundaries. The genetic evidence is not conclusive by any means. Have some patience for now.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

This thread has gotten REALLY nasty------genuinely fascinating, but nasty.

I think I will exit this thread for now.

Did not know Radical Feminism brought out such strong feelings in both sides.
Next thing you know we will have “you mother wears army boots” and profanity.

 

[Stephen168]

Your are right, I think the seniority issue was with respect to position in organization. When you normalize position with seniority, then the findings were that women have better positions than men, on average. The factor related to lower seniority was maternity leave, and family rearing.

Yes, mother’s make choices that limit their seniority in a chosen field, and even which field they choose to work. I read a study in the late 90’s on why women earn less then men and it very closely described my wife; took several years off to raise children, chose work that was close to the children’s school, day shift only, no weekends, no travel. All these choices limited her income and she didn’t care.

There is a book titled ‘The Moral Sense.’ In it the author talks about humans and our understanding of fair. We seem to be born believing fair is a good thing. At a very early age we understand fair to mean equal. Mom gives us a candy bar, we cut it into two equal pieces, I get one piece and you get one; that is fair. Sometime as young adults we learn that fair is proportional. If I pay 25% of the price of a candy bar and you pay 75%, we divide it into two equal pieces, I get one and you get one, that is not fair. Your (name removed by moderator)ut was proportionally greater and you should have got more. The author then says that some studies have shown that women have more difficultly understanding proportionality as fair. At that moment, I thought about this subject; women’s wages and the feminist claim that women making less on average was sexist. This also leads into the claim that this new radical feminism has a marxist agenda. They demand equal out come and don’t think unequal (name removed by moderator)ut should matter. They want the state to force the out come to be equal.