Bishop Athanasius Schneider criticizes Communion in the hand

[JKirkLVNV]

Not to agree or disagree with either, but I think it can be readily agreed that if we find CITH leading to a decreased understanding of the reality of the Real Presence, then it could be considered imprudent as a discipline. This would be one reason why the indult could be withdrawn.

I am not going to root for either side of the indult question. I’ll go along with whatever happens.

I don’t deny that the Church can make the prudential decision to let the indult end. It MIGHT be a good idea. I personally think it to be more an issue of very bad and even heretical catechesis on the part of some.

 

[ljubim]

I Bishop Shneider! When moneys get better, I’m buying his book, Dominus Est. But I’d rather save up to fuel my trek to the TLM next Sunday (Second ever! After an awfully irreverent Mass last Sunday, celebrated by the bishop no less! :nope

This Bishop is unafraid to speak the truth. As bpbasilpx says, if we receive in the hand, we must check our hands afterwards. Never in my life have I ever seen this been done

CITH has led to lost reverence. Who can say in their right minds that a mindset of “I am worthy to hold the Lord” trumps one of “I am unworthy!”

Not to mention that for us Post VII-ers, beginning to show reverence to Our Lord in the Eucharist is not only stregnthens our personal faith, but the stares and rude comments help to humble us and help prepare us to deny the world as Christ did. . Who’d have thought that centuries of tradition would now be frowned upon? Who knew?

An old article in This Rock said that this century’s crisis are crisis of saints. People who take the stand and are unafraid to defend the dignity of Our Lord’s body and blood will be treated roughly and with contempt, but will gain the Kingdom of Heaven in the end.

EDIT: Check out this video on my link with CITH. REALLY, just watch it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I think we’ve gone through this before. If “negative infallibility” applies here, then it should also apply to the anathema against those setting up new rites. But we know that isn’t infallible, either directly or negatively so I doubt if “negative infallibility” applies to impiety as well. Can we have a second opinion on this? pn, what do you think?

This is not any more convincing than my opinion. Christ doesn’t fail because a Pope tolerates a practice which he can’t apparently stop.

Christ doesn’t fail at all. My point is that this cannot be an issue of other than discipline (contrary to the argument drawn from the assertion that the practice leads to the heresy of consubstantiation) because IF it were a matter of faith and morals, then possibly the Apostles and their Disciples and the Early Church were all in error and we know that cannot be.

I am arguing 2 things. A) The practice of CCITH is not, objectively and ontologically wrong in and of itself, nor is it a more holy practice nor a less holy one. B) No one who receives in the hand is objectively holier or better, nor can any observer truthfully say that one who receives this way is lacking in understanding or in reverence of the Blessed Sacrament, since both modes are permitted by the Church.

Now if you want to argue that COTT is more indicative of the fullness of the Church’s teaching on the Blessed Sacrament, both in its theology and devotion to it, you won’t get an argument from me. It’s one thing to pursuade others to your viewpoint that it SHOULD be done this way or that way, it’s another to suggest that someone is wrong BECAUSE they do it this way or that way.

As to the argument that CITH is an easier way for people to steal away the Blessed Host for nefarious purposes, I can only say this: I don’t imagine this blasphemous practice of stealing the Host is new. I’m betting it’s been going on for centuries. In my parish, each minister of HC, either ordinary or extraordinary, watches to see that the Blessed Host is consumed immediately. Each of them is accompanied by an altar server, who also watches (I’m told). Our ushers also watch. If someone carries the Sacrament more than a foot away before it is consumed, they are politely asked to consume the Blessed Sacrament. Can someone slip buy? Yes. During Holy Week, one year, I saw from the choir loft that a woman carried the Blessed Sacrament away and took it out into the narthex. Once there, she knelt before the Divine Mercy shrine, where she consumed the Host. I spoke to an usher, who then spoke to her about the correct practice. Now, if the Sacrament were place on the tongue, no one would have noticed wherether or not it was carried away, would they? One can easily dry one’s mouth out, relatively speaking (breathing through the mouth, wiping one’s tongue with a tissue; everyone’s had dry mouth), and a damp Host will dry out, if removed from one’s mouth. So which one is really “safer?” I think the argument is illogical.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

CITH has led to lost reverence. Who can say in their right minds that a mindset of “I am worthy to hold the Lord” trumps one of “I am unworthy!”

Can you prove this assertion?

I don’t know anyone who says “I am worthy to hold the Lord.” Do you?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

EWTN is the most likely place to hear something like this. They tend to be quite traditional.

Not “traditional”, simply Catholic.

 

[pnewton]

CITH has led to lost reverence. Who can say in their right minds that a mindset of “I am worthy to hold the Lord” trumps one of "I am unworthy!

Amen! However, consider. Who in their right mind can say, “I am worthy to receive the Lord” at all? BUT, “only say the words and I shall be healed.”

 

[giuseppeTO]

Amen! However, consider. Who in their right mind can say, “I am worthy to receive the Lord” at all? BUT, “only say the words and I shall be healed.”

Nice reflection Newt. You are really starting to grow on me.

 

[ProVobis]

Amen! However, consider. Who in their right mind can say, “I am worthy to receive the Lord” at all? BUT, “only say the words and I shall be healed.”

In this light, do you think Pope Pius X went too far in encouraging more frequent communions? Before him, as you probably already know, receiving communion was relatively rare.

Also do you think we should go back to a three-hour fast to better show our worthiness to receive?

And have you read my question to you in post # 36?

 

[ljubim]

Can you prove this assertion?

I don’t know anyone who says “I am worthy to hold the Lord.” Do you?

First of all, before you even read my response, PLEASE watch the video in my signature.

It’s the mindset that people are led to.(Because obviously our actions influence our beliefs, psychologically.) It doesn’t help when your priest or extraordinary minister flings Our Lord into your hand. My apologies for not being a philosopher, I cannot “prove” what I say through a proof or anything like that.

Or you can take the advice of a Holy Saint: "Suddenly, I found myself asking her-I don’t know why-“Mother, what do you think is the worst problem in the world today?” She more than anyone could name any number of candidates: famine, plague, disease, the breakdown of the family, rebellion against God, the corruption of the media, world debt, nuclear threat, and so on. Without pausing a second she said, “Wherever I go in the whole world, the thing that makes me the saddest is watching people receive Communion in the hand.” Quoted from Fr. George William Rutler about Mother Teresa.

Check this out too: Rethinking Communion in the Hand
and of course, again, PLEASE watch the first two minutes of the video in my signature. Perhaps that can help you to understand the dangers involved… of course we cannot deny that the little pieces of OUR LORD that are lost through irreverently executed CITH (99% of the time) aren’t really the body and blood of Our Lord. I have had nightmares about the innumerable pieces of Our Lord that are scattered around our churches today, and I believe that Our Lord is calling me to help convince those around me to make the switch, as they say. So believe it and do not forget: Every crumb of the Eucharist that is lost is CHRIST, and He is trampled and vacuumed up and wiped on peoples’ pants every single day.

WE can stop this first by denying the practice ourselves, or by promoting the Early-Church style of both inspecting and washing our hands after we receive. But clearly the simpler way is to just receive on the tongue.

I am not some monster, 90-year-old traditionalist trying to destroy the world. I’m only 18. Many of us no longer see things clearly, but the easiest way to resolve this is to ask, Do you love God? Then He is calling you to not allow pieces of His Son, Our Lord, to be strewn about the ground of His own house. This is not the reverence the Eucharist deserves, and only adds to the sorrows (physical ones!!) of Our Lord. We CAN NOT wish to do this.

 

[ljubim]

Amen! However, consider. Who in their right mind can say, “I am worthy to receive the Lord” at all? BUT, “only say the words and I shall be healed.”

That’s a good answer
Still, the sense of unworthiness should lead us away from the need to be in control, and to a childlike reliance on the Lord, that is expressed very well in communion on the tongue.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

First of all, before you even read my response, PLEASE watch the video in my signature.

It’s the mindset that people are led to.(Because obviously our actions influence our beliefs, psychologically.) It doesn’t help when your priest or extraordinary minister flings Our Lord into your hand. My apologies for not being a philosopher, I cannot “prove” what I say through a proof or anything like that.

Or you can take the advice of a Holy Saint: "Suddenly, I found myself asking her-I don’t know why-“Mother, what do you think is the worst problem in the world today?” She more than anyone could name any number of candidates: famine, plague, disease, the breakdown of the family, rebellion against God, the corruption of the media, world debt, nuclear threat, and so on. Without pausing a second she said, “Wherever I go in the whole world, the thing that makes me the saddest is watching people receive Communion in the hand.” Quoted from Fr. George William Rutler about Mother Teresa.

Check this out too: Rethinking Communion in the Hand
and of course, again, PLEASE watch the first two minutes of the video in my signature. Perhaps that can help you to understand the dangers involved… of course we cannot deny that the little pieces of OUR LORD that are lost through irreverently executed CITH (99% of the time) aren’t really the body and blood of Our Lord. I have had nightmares about the innumerable pieces of Our Lord that are scattered around our churches today, and I believe that Our Lord is calling me to help convince those around me to make the switch, as they say. So believe it and do not forget: Every crumb of the Eucharist that is lost is CHRIST, and He is trampled and vacuumed up and wiped on peoples’ pants every single day.

WE can stop this first by denying the practice ourselves, or by promoting the Early-Church style of both inspecting and washing our hands after we receive. But clearly the simpler way is to just receive on the tongue.

I am not some monster, 90-year-old traditionalist trying to destroy the world. I’m only 18. Many of us no longer see things clearly, but the easiest way to resolve this is to ask, Do you love God? Then He is calling you to not allow pieces of His Son, Our Lord, to be strewn about the ground of His own house. This is not the reverence the Eucharist deserves, and only adds to the sorrows (physical ones!!) of Our Lord. We CAN NOT wish to do this.

I’m sorry, something has come up and I cannot answer in great detail, but I will latter. Also, you should know that Mother Teresa probably did NOT say that. Her congregation said that they never heard her say it and that it would not be characteristic of her to have said something like that.

Also, your use of rhetoric is telling…I’ve never seen any priest or EMHC “fling” the Blessed Sacrament at anyone. Have you? If you haven’t, can we ask that you be more careful in how you phrase things? That MIGHT be the sin of calumny.

 

[ljubim]

I’m sorry, something has come up and I cannot answer in great detail, but I will latter. Also, you should know that Mother Teresa probably did NOT say that. Her congregation said that they never heard her say it and that it would not be characteristic of her to have said something like that.

Also, your use of rhetoric is telling…I’ve never seen any priest or EMHC “fling” the Blessed Sacrament at anyone. Have you? If you haven’t, can we ask that you be more careful in how you phrase things? That MIGHT be the sin of calumny.

Please do not judge me. I’ve seen what I have seen. Also this is a very emotional issue for me, it greatly troubles me when people disrespect Our Lord, and because this happens so often these days I feel like I’m sometimes always on the defensive. So forgive me if I sound confrontational.

Can you provide evidence that Mother Teresa didn’t say this?(Do you doubt simply because you don’t agree?) I would very much appreciate it. God bless.

 

[Lormar]

Sorry to intrude here, but Ljubim, if you go to Mother Teresa’s canonization website, there is a disclaimer from the MCs about her ever saying this.

I, too, have had a priest “fling” the Host in my mouth. It is not that uncommon here with some priests.

 

[ProVobis]

.I’ve never seen any priest or EMHC “fling” the Blessed Sacrament at anyone.

You probably couldn’t see the extremely tiny electrical circuitry storing this entire thread in memory of your computer either but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Air friction causes flinging whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

[Lormar]

Here’s the link: www.motherteresa.org

 

[ljubim]

Here’s the link: www.motherteresa.org

Thanks!

I hope you don’t take this as disproof of my argument. It’s not, there are many more quotes from saints on that link I posted earlier: catholic-pages.com/mass/inhand.asp

It’s just one false quote. Thanks for correcting me

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Without pausing a second she said, “Wherever I go in the whole world, the thing that makes me the saddest is watching people receive Communion in the hand.” Quoted from Fr. George William Rutler about Mother Teresa.

Oddly enough…

 

[choy]

This is very true. It’s the entire process of standing before a minister who has a consecrated host in his hand (and probably without a paten underneath) and then places it to your hands and then your hands to your mouth which introduces all kinds of loose fragments that are basically discarded in the air. And if there are people out there who trivialize these fragments as being too tiny to worry about, think again. This whole thread can be electronically stored on circuitry about the size of a few angstroms. The small becomes large very quickly.

why worry only about fragments that fall off from a person’s hand to his/her mouth, when the same can happen even if a priests handels the host and places it on someone’s tongue?

 

[ljubim]

why worry only about fragments that fall off from a person’s hand to his/her mouth, when the same can happen even if a priests handels the host and places it on someone’s tongue?

Let’s worry about ALL fragments of Our Lord.

:newidea: How about a paten!

Edit: on this video at about 7:50 is a quote from former Bishop Fulton Sheen about the particles.

 

[ProVobis]

why worry only about fragments that fall off from a person’s hand to his/her mouth, when the same can happen even if a priests handels the host and places it on someone’s tongue?

True but the distance from the ciborium to your mouth is a lot shorter and means fewer particles are discarded which hopefully are caught with the paten and the ciborium as well.