Bishop Banning Latin Mass

[roadsend]

…We can’t decide that something is a sin and disobey. The Church determines what is and is not a sin. Those are the guidelines that we follow. If a bishop commands Catholics to wear orange T-shirts for mass on Sunday, it may be a rather silly command, but it’s not a sin. If he’s speaking as the bishop of the diocese, not to wear the orange T-shirt is a sin of disobedience. It can’t be heresy, because orange T-shirts are not revealed truths.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Good Brother,

As I see it the bishop has no right to command me to do anything. I never promised obedience to him. I would totally ignore any orange t-shirt command he were to issue.

For a more realistic example, if a bishop were to order me to vote for his political candidate, I would disobey him even though he is not ordering me to sin.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

Good Brother,

As I see it the bishop has no right to command me to do anything. I never promised obedience to him. I would totally ignore any orange t-shirt command he were to issue.

For a more realistic example, if a bishop were to order me to vote for his political candidate, I would disobey him even though he is not ordering me to sin.

My Bishop had a letter circulated in all parishes that we should oppose a law that denied illegal immigrants the ability to get a driver’s license.

The kicker is that this is the letter was circulated instead of a letter about the HHS ruling on contraception. My diocese is one of only a handful (literally) that had nothing read from the pulpit about the HHS and contraception.

Obviously, in my diocese it is more important to oppose the denial of driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants than it is to oppose contraception.

• PAX

 

[thewanderer]

Good Brother,

As I see it the bishop has no right to command me to do anything. I never promised obedience to him. I would totally ignore any orange t-shirt command he were to issue.

For a more realistic example, if a bishop were to order me to vote for his political candidate, I would disobey him even though he is not ordering me to sin.

I’m just curious… but why do you claim that the only way your bishop could have the right to command you to do things is if you promised obedience to him? If the Church says that one must obey the bishops then one must obey the bishops, whether or not they specially promised obedience to them.

 

[Moore11]

My Bishop had a letter circulated in all parishes that we should oppose a law that denied illegal immigrants the ability to get a driver’s license.

The kicker is that this is the letter was circulated instead of a letter about the HHS ruling on contraception. My diocese is one of only a handful (literally) that had nothing read from the pulpit about the HHS and contraception.

Obviously, in my diocese it is more important to oppose the denial of driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants than it is to oppose contraception.

• PAX

I have heard that the Bishops are 100 percent in union on the HHS mandate. I also am led to believe that Bishops do not touch voting issues because of non profit status.

 

[pnewton]

I have heard that the Bishops are 100 percent in union on the HHS mandate. I also am led to believe that Bishops do not touch voting issues because of non profit status.

This is the line that they must draw. They can say that a law or bill is moral or immoral. They can lobby for issues, or even encourage voting on referendums. They can not, however, mention any candidate, by name or description and suggest that they be voted for or against on the basis of any issue.

 

[Moore11]

This is the line that they must draw. They can say that a law or bill is moral or immoral. They can lobby for issues, or even encourage voting on referendums. They can not, however, mention any candidate, by name or description and suggest that they be voted for or against on the basis of any issue.

Maybe I’m a bad citizen and voter but I fail to see the distinction between advocating for a ballot measure vs a politician. isn’t a politician just a form of a ballot initiative?
If I advocate someone checking a box for a law how is that different than checking a box for a law maker, in non profit land?

 

[pnewton]

Maybe I’m a bad citizen and voter but I fail to see the distinction between advocating for a ballot measure vs a politician. isn’t a politician just a form of a ballot initiative?
If I advocate someone checking a box for a law how is that different than checking a box for a law maker, in non profit land?

Here is the IRS rule:

irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,id=163395,00.html

It’s restrictions apply to candidates, or groups of candidates. Kibitz around their site awhile and you will find that NP are able to lobby issues, as long as they do not devote a substantial amount of their resources to this. And I just realized how far off topic I have wandered. Sorry.

 

[Moore11]

Here is the IRS rule:

irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,id=163395,00.html

It’s restrictions apply to candidates, or groups of candidates. Kibitz around their site awhile and you will find that NP are able to lobby issues, as long as they do not devote a substantial amount of their resources to this. And I just realized how far off topic I have wandered. Sorry.

True, we are off topic and like many things in the government I guess I’ll never understand the distinction between advocating for an issue Vs a candidate. Personally I think they should be able to say whatever they want.

I believe that is the rule, I just don’t see the logic in it? It doesnt seem to apply to the likes of Rev Jesse Jackson, Rev, Wright or Rev Al Sharpton does it?

 

[triumphguy]

My Bishop had a letter circulated in all parishes that we should oppose a law that denied illegal immigrants the ability to get a driver’s license.

The kicker is that this is the letter was circulated instead of a letter about the HHS ruling on contraception. My diocese is one of only a handful (literally) that had nothing read from the pulpit about the HHS and contraception.

Obviously, in my diocese it is more important to oppose the denial of driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants than it is to oppose contraception.

• PAX

Obviously?

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

I have heard that the Bishops are 100 percent in union on the HHS mandate. I also am led to believe that Bishops do not touch voting issues because of non profit status.

Here’s the compiled list of Bishops who have spoken out against the mandate:

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=25591

My Bishop is the ONLY one who did not post anything online or have anything read in church or put in parish bulletins. He just made a statement somewhere that he was against it.

The only one.

I think I’ve mentioned in other threads that my diocese is quite the desert, right?

Kyrie eleison.

• PAX

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

Obviously?

If you live here, yup. See my post above as well.

• PAX

 

[wasserfall]

Also, a bishop can be disobeyed when he commands what he has no right to command.

So then a pastor who, responding to the request of members of his parish, wishes to schedule a regular public, traditional latin mass, and who is sufficiently knowledgeable of Latin, so as to meet the requirements of Summorum Pontificum, may certainly do so, even if his bishop commands him not to, because the bishop commands what he has no right to command.

 

[Rich_C]

I’m not a self-proclaimed “trad” but people sometimes call me that, and though I feel disappointed by the hierarchy more often than not, I do my best to keep my mouth shut and not dwell on it. Isn’t that part of what being “traditional” is about?

 

[Mrs_Sally]

So then a pastor who, responding to the request of members of his parish, wishes to schedule a regular public, traditional latin mass, and who is sufficiently knowledgeable of Latin, so as to meet the requirements of Summorum Pontificum, may certainly do so, even if his bishop commands him not to, because the bishop commands what he has no right to command.

The schedule of public Masses in each parish is within the bishop’s control, as is the number of Masses that his priests say each day (public or private). The bishop may indeed say that an additional Mass cannot be added or that the schedule cannot be amended. Especially if Mass A serves 200 people and Mass B would serve 50.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

I’m not a self-proclaimed “trad” but people sometimes call me that, and though I feel disappointed by the hierarchy more often than not, I do my best to keep my mouth shut and not dwell on it. Isn’t that part of what being “traditional” is about?

Yes, indeed, but sometimes it’s hard. Mea culpa.

• PAX

 

[Rich_C]

Yes, indeed, but sometimes it’s hard. Mea culpa.

• PAX

Tell me about it. Sometimes I vent in private to my fiancee, who never joins in and reminds me I have to be respectful.

 

[Moore11]

Here’s the compiled list of Bishops who have spoken out against the mandate:

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=25591

My Bishop is the ONLY one who did not post anything online or have anything read in church or put in parish bulletins. He just made a statement somewhere that he was against it.

The only one.

I think I’ve mentioned in other threads that my diocese is quite the desert, right?

Kyrie eleison.

• PAX

From the article you posted.

100% of bishops who head dioceses have spoken out against the Obama/HHS mandate.

Is there something I am not getting here?

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Here’s the compiled list of Bishops who have spoken out against the mandate:

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=25591

My Bishop is the ONLY one who did not post anything online or have anything read in church or put in parish bulletins. He just made a statement somewhere that he was against it.

The only one.

I think I’ve mentioned in other threads that my diocese is quite the desert, right?

Kyrie eleison.

• PAX

Hm. I’m not sure if that’s much worse than writing a letter from an entirely secular viewpoint - a letter that’s being read to Catholics, mind you. That’s what my bishop did. I thought it to be a very weak-kneed response, like he was just doing it to go along. I suppose it’s better than nothing, but it’s like trying to hit a home run with a Nerf bat.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

From the article you posted.

Is there something I am not getting here?

He spoke out against it somewhere, sometime, but there is nothing on the Diocesan website about it, there was nothing read in any of the churches of the diocese, and there was nothing put in parish bulletins. The site has links and bold and italics to designate these things. My bishop is the only Latin Rite bishop that didn’t do any of that.

• PAX

 

[Moore11]

He spoke out against it somewhere, sometime, but there is nothing on the Diocesan website about it, there was nothing read in any of the churches of the diocese, and there was nothing put in parish bulletins. The site has links and bold and italics to designate these things. My bishop is the only Latin Rite bishop that didn’t do any of that.

• PAX

So your issue is how he spoke out against it? Hey, I’m on your side, we have a very progressive Bishop here as well and it is frustrating. But if this is your beef. That a Bishop didn’t speak as loudly as you wanted I think you are just looking for reasons to be upset. The fact is that 100% have spoken against this. You may be correct and he may not be as enthusiastic as he should be but you are misrepresenting your Shepard. He deserves better than that.