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thewanderer
Guest
I’m just curious, but, is there some point you are trying to make beyond what a terrible bishop you are under?
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EcceAgnusDei
Guest
There was a history to this posting. It had to do with Bishops and politics and I was using my bishop as an example of a bishop who advocated the diocese to oppose a law denying illegal immigrants the ability to have driver’s licenses (a letter read in Mass) while remaining basically silent on the HHS mandate. Someone asked a follow up question and I clarified.
That was the point.
This has obviously gone beyond that so let’s get back to whatever it was we were talking about.
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EcceAgnusDei
Guest
You don’t know my Shepherd so how do you know I am misrepresenting him?
Anyways, we’re off topic.
- PAX
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Moore11
Guest
You said he was silent and posted what you thought was proof which turned out to be the exact opposite. It would be wise for us to get back on topic and for you to just say “my bad” and move on. But pride is a powerful force.You don’t know my Shepherd so how do you know I am misrepresenting him?
Anyways, we’re off topic.
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EcceAgnusDei
Guest
Indeed it isYou said he was silent and posted what you thought was proof which turned out to be the exact opposite. It would be wise for us to get back on topic and for you to just say “my bad” and move on. But pride is a powerful force.
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J
Julia_Mae
Guest
Yes, I’m aware of that. But banning the EF isn’t sin, it’s his prerogative.
We have to. Otherwise we commit the sin of fideism. No Pope or Bishop is going to answer for my sins. I am. However, I take your point to be, we can’t decide the Bishop is wrong and go ahead and start having Latin Masses in secret. I also think we can’t use our preference as an excuse to foment rebellion.
When a Bishop tells you to hide a crime, you must choose your action. When the Pope ordered bakers to put sawdust into bread to make the flour go further and starve the poor, the bakers were still culpable. The Church might provide the guidelines, but only the individual can determine their sin. Otherwise we would be required to go to confession once a week and recount every single action we took and every word and thought so the priest could decide if we had sinned.
I do look good in orange.
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Moore11
Guest
Everybody does. Its 1/2 of my 2 favorite colors.
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wasserfall
Guest
Quite honestly I question your assertions.
However, I’m not going to try to argue against them.
If I were a pastor in such a position, I’d hire a canon lawyer and find out what’s correct.
But as I’m not, I’ll just hold my peace for now.
J
Jane_of_Arc
Guest
To learn Latin well enough to say the Mass, shouldn’t be that hard. My pastor ordered DVDs., plus he went to the FSSP. to learn the Mass of 1962… He says it beautifully & our Bishop is 100% behind him.
The parish I attended before S.P. was run by an order. I decided that if the head of the order would not allow the wishes of the POPE to come to fruition within his parishes, would not allow even **one **TLM. per wk., that I needed to go elsewhere.
It’s a shame, because that parish was the one where I attended elementary school, where I was married, where my first 3 children were Baptized. Even before I changed parishes 4yrs. ago, well…you’d walk in & see a sea of white heads. No young families, no children. I hated to leave, as did many others, but one has to do what one believes is right.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
This is not for us to judge. What ever it would take it sure will take time and money. Maybe its money that they do not have. Maybe its time they do not have. It is easy for someone sitting on the outside to say how “easy” all this should be.
For myself. I will be taking a theological latin class next semester as the school we are transferring into requires it for all studying for the priesthood (my old school which is now closed didn’t). I am also headed to San Antonio this summer (the month of June) for a four week Intensive Pastoral Spanish class. I am horrible in languages, I will let you know how much sticks for me.
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thewanderer
Guest
Wasserfall:
Perhaps you should go back and reread JReducation’s posts. As I understand it he has studied canon law extensively. In particular this post was very interesting.
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ProVobis
Guest
Indeed it shouldn’t. There are only 606 distinct Latin words in the vocabulary of the 1962 Ordinary.
gmr.sourceforge.net/html/word_list.html
And the Latin propers (many of them short and repeated) aren’t that particularly time-consuming to pick up. The Epistle and Gospel may be read in the vernacular and the sermon given in the vernacular so it’s not like having to say a Spanish Mass with 4 EP’s and give homilies in Spanish.
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roadsend
Guest
And I would bet that a large percentage of these have English cognates and an even larger percentage have Spanish cognates.
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sulkow82
Guest
Hello,
Sometimes there is another parish which does have the EF celebrated (and this is enough to satisfy the need of several neighboring parishes). I can think of one parish in my dioceses that actually “rents” out their 10am Mass slot to an organization (not the SSPX) which strives to preserve and promote the EF. This has been going on for over a decade by what I hear.
Sometimes there is another parish which does have the EF celebrated (and this is enough to satisfy the need of several neighboring parishes). I can think of one parish in my dioceses that actually “rents” out their 10am Mass slot to an organization (not the SSPX) which strives to preserve and promote the EF. This has been going on for over a decade by what I hear.
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ProVobis
Guest
Good point. Latin sure makes the Spanish Mass easier to follow. I brought a Latin-Spanish printout with me last Spanish Mass I attended. Some words jump out immediately.
For example:
semper - sempre
vitam - vida
terra - tierra
benedicimus - benedicimos
mundi - mundo
and so on.
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wasserfall
Guest
If Brother JR believes that the bishop has a right to forbid a pastor who is qualified to celebrate a traditional mass from doing so, then I respectfully disagree with Brother JR.
And the only way to find out who is right and who is wrong is to make a case of it in court.
Since we aren’t going to be doing that, there’s not much point in further discussion.
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Moore11
Guest
Published Friday jan 20th in our diocese newspaper by the Bishop.
For the calendar that issue there is no Latin Mass anywhere in the diocese. Like I said before, one a month at a rural outpost.
Like I said, I am obedient and the Bishop, my leader has made his wishes well known. So, even though I crave the EF, and even though the Catholic Church has kinda said I can go to SSPX if I wish. My Bishop says No! I dont agree, I can speculate about why, but bottom line it comes down to Obedience!
I pray and pray that this month will be the month that the SSPX are rejoined. But my Bishop will have quite the headache if this happens.
I tried to take out the locations.
For the calendar that issue there is no Latin Mass anywhere in the diocese. Like I said before, one a month at a rural outpost.
Like I said, I am obedient and the Bishop, my leader has made his wishes well known. So, even though I crave the EF, and even though the Catholic Church has kinda said I can go to SSPX if I wish. My Bishop says No! I dont agree, I can speculate about why, but bottom line it comes down to Obedience!
I pray and pray that this month will be the month that the SSPX are rejoined. But my Bishop will have quite the headache if this happens.
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ProVobis
Guest
It’s a tough situation. I have yet to hear a bishop who has said otherwise. But Canon Law is Canon Law.
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wasserfall
Guest
Indeed. The SSPX is strong in that diocese.
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Moore11
Guest
It is off topic but many on this thread were on another thread where it was being discussed just how a prelature would work. Would Rome override the Bishop’s authority in his own diocese and grandfather in current SSPX chapels, or would the Bishops each have a say within their own diocese if a SSPX chapter could be in operation? You can see the problem here.
- Status