Bishop Barron on Stephen Hawking and Atheism

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thinkandmull said:
i don’t think that answers the question. Why is there necessary existence instead of nothing (which doesn’t have positive existence). In God is there the reason why he exists at all? Why being is a thing instead of nothing?
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Logical possibilities are fundamentally an expression of reality. Thus absolutely nothing cannot be a logical possibility because there are no logical possibilities in absolutely nothing… It cannot be realized. Its a contradiction to say that its a logical possibility for there to be no logical possibilities because it would mean that all logical truth is contingent truth and can change instead of being immutable.

******What i mean to say is, there would be no such thing as logical truth in absolutely nothing. Logical truth does not change and therefore there cannot be absolutely nothing.
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Existence on some level is necessary. Existence on some level is a “nature”. God’s act of reality is identical with his nature. Its his nature to exist. As opposed to something that borrows its act of existing in-order for its nature to exist; a contingent being. For example my having the nature of a man does not determine that i must exist because my act of existing is given to my nature, and so existence is not something that comes from my nature, it is not intrinsic to my nature. Existence is intrinsic to God and so he cannot not exist because existence is God’s nature.
 
To say that it is possible for there to be absolutely nothing is the same thing as saying that it is possible for there to be no truth.
 
I think there would still be truth without being. It would be abstract and only exist if something popped into existence, even though that would be impossible. Is God’s existence a brute fact or is there in Him not does existence but the reason why there is something-Him
 
thinkandmull said:
I think there would still be truth without being. It would be abstract? and only exist if something popped into existence, even though that would be impossible. Is God’s existence a brute fact or is there in Him not does existence but the reason why there is something-Him
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So there would be absolutely nothing plus logical immutable truth?

I’m sorry thinkandmull but that’s not gonna work. There is no truth in absolutely nothing. We are after-all talking about absolutely nothing. It is the absence of everything.

Abstractions are an expression of the mind by the way.

I explained why God’s being is necessary.
 
No, you described God’s nature as necessary. You haven’t shown that truth must be in a mind in order to be real. If God ceased to exist and there was nothing it would be true that He existed, just as it is true there is a past. Truth does not need being to be true
 
thinkandmull said:
No, you described God’s nature as necessary. You haven’t shown that truth must be in a mind in order to be real. If God ceased to exist and there was nothing it would be true that He existed, just as it is true there is a past. Truth does not need being to be true
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If God ceased to exist and there was absolutely nothing, his existence would no-longer be true. It would not be the presence of truth, it would be the absence of truth; in other words it use to be true that God existed. This is not the case with logical immutable truths.

So you think logical immutable truth would exist as an abstraction in absolutely nothing?

There is nothing more for us to discuss, this conversation is over.
 
Its not based on anything but its own truth. “Based on” is not a good expression of this even
 
I don’t know why that says it is my quote. God is truth but can we understand how God can have the reason in Him why there is something instead of nothing? I don’t see why there can’t be truth even if there is no God
 
thinkandmull said:
Can beauty be *the reason *or is beauty a brute fact
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There is no **reason **to regard truth and beauty as distinct entities! It is more economical to regard them as aspects of one Supreme Being. Keats had the right idea:
Beauty is truth, truth beauty, that is all / Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
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thinkandmull said:
It can’t be proven that truth is based on existence/being
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I don’t have to prove it. Absolutely nothing is absolutely nothing. It is not absolutely nothing plus logical immutable truth. Absolutely nothing is a contradictory idea to begin with. The idea that logical truth can be an expression of absolutely nothing or be true without reality is absolute nonsense. You might as well say that it is a logical possibility for something to come from nothing and call it a day.

Ridiculous.
 
ChrisGriffin said:
“I am against gay marriage and contraception because I am a son of the Church”. To me that was a tip-off that he opposes them because he must oppose them in order to keep his job, not because he really means it.

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Being a son of the Church is the only justified reason to be against Gay marriage. We are against it because God is against it; not because of any personal human feelings.

I think what the Pope said is the correct response.
 
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