Bishop calls receiving Communion on the tongue more reverent

[Brother_John]

**The inability to kneel is seen as the very essence of the diabolical." **

mmmmmmmm…tell that to all the folks who kneel with their keesters resting on the pews during consecration…

Some days I wish I took a cattle prod to Mass with me.

:tsktsk:

What I was trying to say in the earlier post, was that, spending time at CAF has given me a different (and not always more charitable) view toward things I see at Mass.

Things I used to see as novel or reverent, now seem to be almost defiant toward Vatican II, the Spirit of Vatican II, etc…as if the person is trying to make a statement rather than show personal reverence…just my opinion…

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Obviously, it was a tradition that preceded the Last Supper. Jesus didn’t just make it up on the spot to point out Judas.

We have no proof that this dipping the morsel bit was done as part of the institution of the Eucharist – some hold it as a valid theory but we do not know.

Could have been during the ‘starters’ part of the meal (which allows Judas to leave before the institution narrative).

I wonder if this theory was proven accurate and closely linked to IDing the traitor of Christ would it have been seen as being a reverent practice or would it always be the seen as pointing out the ‘traitor’.

 

[thistle]

The Catholic church is way too lenient today.
One of the things that should be put in place permanently is communion on the tongue only. I was told once that God left priests 5 graces, and one of them is to be able to touch the host with their hands. The rest of us NO NO NO, and that inclues eucharistic ministers, if you ask me there should not be such a thing. I don’t see why the church has to implement all these changes just so peeople can feel comfortable and “belong”.
Before all that, we owe God reverence and we should not trade that for a bunch of eucharistic ministers so we can stand in the line 2 minutes versus 15 if it was a priest only distributing the host.

I recommend a book called ‘Get Us Out of Here’ by Maria Simma. A lot of very useful info on the catholic church.

I have used this before but you are another one whose attitude reminds me of the words of Saint John of the Cross:

“Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervour, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all contrary to spiritual meekness.”

 

[Jakub]

Excellent article by Fr. Mark @ Vultus Christi regarding the title subject…enjoy and educate yourself

vultus.stblogs.org/2008/03/cum_amore_ac_timore_with_love.html

 

[MrS]

Excellent article by Fr. Mark @ Vultus Christi regarding the title subject…enjoy and educate yourself

vultus.stblogs.org/2008/03/cum_amore_ac_timore_with_love.html

Great link, Jakub… thanks.

We can only hope that more will read it… especially 3 CA members I can think of who seem to have an attitude that this is no big deal.

This again makes me think of the question “at what point have we expressed enough reverence to the Real Presence, that no more is required?”

Too many Catholics simply don’t even believe, and too many more who say they do have a weak understanding and it shows in their discussion of the subject.

.

 

[katie33321]

This is an awesome quote from John of the cross.
Perhaps you are correct and unfortunately many catholics are totally ignorant as to the meaning of many things in the mass.
They follow the religion out of tradition. I feel the church has failed to educate us better on these things so really can’t blame the people I guess.

I have used this before but you are another one whose attitude reminds me of the words of Saint John of the Cross:

“Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervour, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all contrary to spiritual meekness.”

 

[planter654]

For the past several years, I found it novel when someone hit their knees and received Communion on the tongue while everyone else was standing/in hand.

After a couple of months at CAF though, now I unfortunately see it as a form of defiance toward today’s Catholic Church.

Kinda disappointing

Was it not the Catholic Church who changed it years ago? Why? The same with removing the railings that we knelt before to receive Holy Communion because the alter itself was Holy for the priest only to be on the altar in the presents of the tabernacle? Now everyone or anyone even school plays are done on the alter, railings were removed? Why? I find this disrespectful where anyone goes walking around on the altar? Now we can find the tabernacle in the back of the church or off to the side? I ask are we giving God a place of Honour and adoration doing this? Sad to me there is no excuses for such practices, whom are we serving man or God? Was it not only for the priest to handle the Holy Host? Not lay people? I wouldn’t care how long it takes it is not a Tim Hortons drive through. Are we not turning our backs just not are faces to God? We never seem to do what God simply ask, we created our own rules and say oh God won’t mind, are we saying we know the thoughts of God now and telling him this way will be more pleasing to you? God is not a God of confusion!

God Bless

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Some engaged in this discussion may be interested in a post I made pertaining to the book written by Bishop Schneider. I have news about the English version of Dominus Est.

This is the book where His Excellency speaks on the topic of kneeling for Holy Communion and receiving on the tongue.

 

[Brother_John]

Was it not the Catholic Church who changed it years ago? Why?

Perhaps because it was “hers” to change in the first place?

Sometimes I think that gets lost on people. If I ask questions about some issues I disagree with, I get bashed on the head with “because the Church says so”…yet, when the shoe is on the other foot…

 

[drafdog]

Freshman88 re. your post this thread #61:
See title of thread.
It seems to me that it is the spiritual posture of the recipient that matters rather than the physical posture. Maybe I’m reading the message of the Messiah incorrectly but he seemed more interested in the hearts of the faithful than anything else.

Matthew

 

[CradleCath]

What I was trying to say in the earlier post, was that, spending time at CAF has given me a different (and not always more charitable) view toward things I see at Mass.

Things I used to see as novel or reverent, now seem to be almost defiant toward Vatican II, the Spirit of Vatican II, etc…as if the person is trying to make a statement rather than show personal reverence…just my opinion…

I have never seen anyone kneel for Communion at a Novus Ordo Mass, nor could** I** kneel there because it is not the norm for that Mass. Though kneeling for Communion is one of the reasons that I’ve started attending the TLM., I wouldn’t do it at the OF. Mass. I would feel very self-conscious doing so, as if I were trying to bring attention to myself, instead of to God. (On the other hand, if I were part of the diocese of Los Angelos or Orange County, with my leadership consisting of Roger Mahony or Todd Brown… well, who knows what I might do).

Rome has come down strongly against refusing the Eucharist to a person who kneels. This isn’t wise, either. For the time being, myself & fellow Traditionalists need to be supportive of those who prefer the N.O. & those who do so should be supportive of the Traditionalists…perhaps more so, since what we are doing is so NEW (even to those of us who attended the Tlm., in our youth).

 

[planter654]

Freshman88 re. your post this thread #61:
See title of thread.
It seems to me that it is the spiritual posture of the recipient that matters rather than the physical posture. Maybe I’m reading the message of the Messiah incorrectly but he seemed more interested in the hearts of the faithful than anything else.

Matthew

I agree. In Jesus time and what he has taught, shown etc. When a sinner went to him in asking for forgiveness Jesus knew their hearts and he forgave them, but sin no more and moved on.

Today it gives me a headache and so so so many man made traditions that Jesus never ask for. Fallow me, obey my commandments, Love charity etc.God is not a God of confusion.

God Bless

 

[Walking_Home]

I agree. In Jesus time and what he has taught, shown etc. When a sinner went to him in asking for forgiveness Jesus knew their hearts and he forgave them, but sin no more and moved on.

Today it gives me a headache and so so so many man made traditions that Jesus never ask for. Fallow me, obey my commandments, Love charity etc.God is not a God of confusion.

God Bless

---

Please clarify — as to what you mean by -many man made traditiions that Jesus never ask for.

 

[Freshman88]

I agree. In Jesus time and what he has taught, shown etc. When a sinner went to him in asking for forgiveness Jesus knew their hearts and he forgave them, but sin no more and moved on.

Today it gives me a headache and so so so many man made traditions that Jesus never ask for. Fallow me, obey my commandments, Love charity etc.God is not a God of confusion.

God Bless

1. Physical posture can lead to the correct spiritual posture and is certainly conducive to supporting an already existent spiritual posture.
2. Man-made traditions? - How about Church-made traditions? Jesus never asked for the rosary, perhaps we should scrap that too? I think you need to reassess the importance of so called “man-made traditions” that are brought about by Holy Mother Church.
3. Jesus said eat my flesh - thus it is very importantly that we do so with the utmost importance. How can you brush off the rituals of the mass so easily, when they are so vital to our faith.

Your post was very indicative of a thinking that sees no importance in the traditions of the Church.

There is nothing at all confusing by the traditions of the Church - use them, they bring you closer to God.

 

[planter654]

1. Physical posture can lead to the correct spiritual posture and is certainly conducive to supporting an already existent spiritual posture.
2. Man-made traditions? - How about Church-made traditions? Jesus never asked for the rosary, perhaps we should scrap that too? I think you need to reassess the importance of so called “man-made traditions” that are brought about by Holy Mother Church.
3. Jesus said eat my flesh - thus it is very importantly that we do so with the utmost importance. How can you brush off the rituals of the mass so easily, when they are so vital to our faith.

Your post was very indicative of a thinking that sees no importance in the traditions of the Church.

There is nothing at all confusing by the traditions of the Church - use them, they bring you closer to God.

All that you have mention in “your post are not my thoughts, but yours”. I guess we are all guilty of doing that. “We must learn first to conquer ourselves” I find that a very difficult thing to do and I know without God it is impossible.

Right now for one like not eating meat on Friday, it was a sin if you did so. I remember clearly you told it was a sin needed to be confessed, would go to hell if you did. I remember this as a child growing up. That is placing a burden on someone and forcing someone to sin if they are weak spiritual.

God told us what true fasting was. For God said he was not pleased with this: Rather did you not fast out of your own want. Rather God told us what he wanted I will find the exact words in the Bible. Help the poor fed the hungry etc. Scarifice is in giving praise and glory to God in prayer and helping the poor, feed the hungry.

It is early in the morning I will mention “my thoughts” on man made traditions.

God Bless for he loves us all dearly.

 

[Freshman88]

I’m sorry, but, are you even Catholic?

 

[Alexios]

Seriously, are you?

Eating meat on Fridays during Lent when you know you should not is a serious sin, a sin which needs to be confessed before you commune on Sunday at Holy Mass, if you have any respect for Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist, and you do not wish to bring condemnation upon your soul.

Posture when receiving commune does matter. If you knew much about the Catholic Faith, you would know that outward signs and actions deeply affect inner, spiritual sensitivities. Taking Communion like you shove a bunch of graham crackers into your mouth Sunday after Sunday after Sunday will slowly erode the faith and reverence even the most watchful person has for the Holy Eucharist. Things at Mass are done differently than those things we do outside Church doors for a reason: to remind us of what we are participating in, with Whom we are approaching.

I was particularly interested in what the Archbishop said about Communion in the hand in the early Christian centuries. Now, not that even if they did take it the exact same way most people do today would that justify the weird, antiquarian mismatched practice of Communion in the hand as it is today, but…Archbishop Schneider was saying how even the early Christians would be absolutely horrified at how Communion is most often received today, given that It was placed in their hand and they took It up humbly with their mouths, unlike today where people take It from one hand, put It in another, and feed It to themselves (often while dropping It, which I actually saw JUST this last Sunday - thank goodness the girl SOMEHOW caught It before It hit the floor).

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Seriously, are you?

Eating meat on Fridays during Lent when you know you should not is a serious sin, a sin which needs to be confessed before you commune on Sunday at Holy Mass, if you have any respect for Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist, and you do not wish to bring condemnation upon your soul.

Posture when receiving commune does matter. If you knew much about the Catholic Faith, you would know that outward signs and actions deeply affect inner, spiritual sensitivities. Taking Communion like you shove a bunch of graham crackers into your mouth Sunday after Sunday after Sunday will slowly erode the faith and reverence even the most watchful person has for the Holy Eucharist. Things at Mass are done differently than those things we do outside Church doors for a reason: to remind us of what we are participating in, with Whom we are approaching.

I was particularly interested in what the Archbishop said about Communion in the hand in the early Christian centuries. Now, not that even if they did take it the exact same way most people do today would that justify the weird, antiquarian mismatched practice of Communion in the hand as it is today, but…Archbishop Schneider was saying how even the early Christians would be absolutely horrified at how Communion is most often received today, given that It was placed in their hand and they took it up humbly with their mouths, unlike today where people take it from one hand, put it in another, and feed it to themselves (often while dropping it, which I actually saw JUST this last Sunday - thank goodness the girl SOMEHOW caught It before It hit the floor).

Was the good Archbishop around in those times or is this his opinion of what went on?

Is the ‘often dropping’ your insertion or the Archbishop’s words?

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

IMO, and this is the last time I will comment on this overworked topic, is that until we restore communion rails, kneeling for communion, proper vessels, ordained ministers ONLY communicating, preferably by intinction, reception on the tongue is impractical and ill-advisible in most American parishes at this time.

the EMHCs are not properly trained, the people are not properly prepared, and it is nearly impossible when both are standing for minister to communicate on the tongue for at least half the people, especially children. in modern churches, including our diocese’s 2 largest, with stadium seating and slanted floor, it is virtually impossible for the minister and the communicant to be standing properly in relation to each other for this method to work.

I receive on the tongue when I’m holding my baby. I don’t kneel down or anything. I just stick out my tongue instead of my hands. I make sure I get in the line for the priest, since I figure he’ll know what to do.

 

[Jakub]

Alexios, don’t waste your time explaining, they just don’t accept truth or tradition, 40 odd years of liberation has seen to that.

pax
james