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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Thank you for the clarification. I wan’t referring to Cardinal Dolan, though.
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OraLabora
Guest
Indeed. I was more or less in the same boat as you. My confessor stunned me by saying the Eucharist saved me through some very trying times and eventually the situation that put me in a state of grave sin was resolved because of the strength and hope the Eucharist gave me. He said he of course could never say so in public.
Sometimes I think the narrow legalistic approach does more harm than good.
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TimothyH
Guest
Thank you for agreeing with me, that God is being very patient with someone who appears to be in grave sin.
I supported abortion at one time. I supported it so strongly that I asked my then future wife to consider murdering our daughter before she was born. That is the first time I have ever stated that to anyone. I have never spoken about it. Thankfully, my then future wife was truly holier than I and we had a beautiful daughter Stephanie, who was baptized in 1992. She was buried on the Feast of the Assumption of Mary in 1996 after a 20 month battle with Leukemia.
So God’s patience brought one child to Heaven and put her father, seventeen years later and probably through her prayers, on the road to that same Heaven.
Please be patient with Biden. If he recieves the Eucharist, that is between him and the Cardinal who allowed him. All the aborted children in are praying for Joe. We should pray for his conversion and trusting in God, should let it go.
-Tim-
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Tim,
I am truly sorry for your loss. I have prayed for Stephanie and for her parents.
I am truly sorry for your loss. I have prayed for Stephanie and for her parents.
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OraLabora
Guest
Tim, thanks for sharing. God’s ways are not our ways. You and your family are in my prayers.
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JReducation
Guest
Francis never met Cardinal Dolan. But if Francis were told this story, his response would be the same.Thank you for the clarification. I wan’t referring to Cardinal Dolan, though.
St. Teresa of Avila has a similar response regarding a priest and a scandal.
The thing that we have to understand is canon law is written. At the end of the day, the local bishop has to make a judgment call on how and when to apply a specific law.
I remember when Tony Blair was admitted to the Church. This question came up, because he was to meet with Bl. John Paul who was the one who wrote that particular canon. Bl. John Paul said that sometimes people are on the journey and only God knows their actual state. He was willing to trust that Blair was on that journey. I guess this ties in with the idea of God’s patience.
It’s really for the local bishop to make a decision as to how he’s going to handle this. There are bishops who have had confrontations with politicians over this. They know for a fact that there is no change here. They have told the person not to approach Holy Communion. There was one politician in Washington who recently went through this with Cardinal Wuerl. Then she was dumb enough to tell the press what was supposed to be a private conversation between her and the cardinal. The same happened with Patrick Kennedy in Rhode Island. The bishop spoke to him a few times. The public did not know and would not have known had it not been because Kennedy told the press.
We never really know what a bishop is thinking or what a bishop may have said to someone when we’re not looking.
At the inauguration mass the Holy Father said that he would not be distributing Holy Communion, because of this issue. There was the President of Argentina with whom he has had conflicts over this. Had he been up there, she would have approached. He did not want to create a seen by denying her, nor did he want to give her Communion, because he already knew where she stood, since they have discussed this privately many times. At communion time, the deacons distributed Holy Communion at the Pope’s station. He made a judgment call.
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Rich_C
Guest
What you guys are saying is not what the Church teaches. It’s not wisdom; it’s error.
I am sorry for every time I received Our Lord unworthily, because it *offended Him *at His most vulnerable. I still have lots of penance I ought to be doing for it, even though it was years ago. Adding sin to sin buries a sinner deeper, it doesn’t lead him to grace.
Part of a sincere contrition is wishing we hadn’t done what we did, isn’t it?
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JReducation
Guest
That’s a beautiful witness.
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clem456
Guest
Good post. I as well received the Eucharist for many years when in fact I should have spontaneously burst into flames for my sins ( a strange incense indeed!).
Which is not to excuse the sin or water down the Church’s teaching at all.
I like your statement about God’s patience. God does as He wills, with who he wills, when He wills it, according to His good pleasure.
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clem456
Guest
Actually, I just don’t have the expertise, time, or authority to be overseeing what a Cardinal does with a fellow sinner.
My past and current sins are so overwhelming at times that it takes all my focus just to listen to God.
My past and current sins are so overwhelming at times that it takes all my focus just to listen to God.
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OraLabora
Guest
Relax, we both confessed.
We both got it wrong, then somehow got it right. That didn’t happen through following rules, it happened through grace and mercy, which God distributes as He chooses, not based on human limits. Those human limits suggest the best way for us that we can know, but do not by any means place limits on God who can choose to ignore them if He wishes.
Well, sometimes I still get it way wrong, but I digress.
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Saints_Alive
Guest
A priest isn’t to deny Communion to anyone unless it would cause public scandal. In this case, it does cause public scandal. Evidently, the priest in question could care less.
Sad.
Sad.
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Francoist
Guest
If a cleric knowingly administers the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to a public, notorious sinner (such as one who advocates for abortion and homosexual ‘marriage’) then he effectively holds up Our Lord to be slapped in the face and spat upon.
It is not only grave sin, it is heartbreaking.
It is not only grave sin, it is heartbreaking.
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Saints_Alive
Guest
Exactly
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clem456
Guest
This is a good thing to keep in mind as we all look upon the crucified Christ on Friday.
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crazzeto
Guest
I don’t know about the EF, but this is very saddening. Perhaps further evidence that indeed, the media preferred candidate for the papacy is not the candidate preferred by the Holy Spirit. Very sad because to date I have liked him very much indeed. I realize he wants to bring us together, but if true this crosses the line into disregard for the soul to curry political favor.
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einna
Guest
This is truly one of the best post I have read on this site to date that was not one of Bro.'s.Thank you for sharing with us.
Jesus gave his life to us and for us, all of us, not just those in good grace at any certain moment. I am not at all trying to question church teaching or canon law but I think the people who truly need the body and blood Christ are those who have lost there way.
I cannot predict what Pope Francis will think, but all I know is that I was raised by Jesuit who told us we were all sinners but that we had a loving, forgiving God who would never abandon us no matter what we did, and when we asked for forgiveness we would have a place in heaven. God gives himself freely to all of us whether we are sinners or not, keeping the Eucharist from someone, even a public sinner is keeping, him from God’s healing grace. It is my opinion that it is what “saves” all of us.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
You can not receive in a state of grave sin.
By the above logic, then a non Catholic should be able to receive, too, no?
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crazzeto
Guest
God never abandons us, ever. Not even if we find ourselves being excommunicated. However to my thinking anyway, there is a proper place for certain disciplinary actions, particularly those we find in Sacred Scripture its self. In … gosh I think it might be 1 Corinthians 11:29 St. Paul discusses the sinner eating and drinking judgement upon themselves when the receive Holy Eucharist without proper disposition (specifically, in a state of mortal sin).This is truly one of the best post I have read on this site to date that was not one of Bro.'s.Thank you for sharing with us.
Jesus gave his life to us and for us, all of us, not just those in good grace at any certain moment. I am not at all trying to question church teaching or canon law but I think the people who truly need the body and blood Christ are those who have lost there way.
I cannot predict what Pope Francis will think, but all I know is that I was raised by Jesuit who told us we were all sinners but that we had a loving, forgiving God who would never abandon us no matter what we did, and when we asked for forgiveness we would have a place in heaven. God gives himself freely to all of us whether we are sinners or not, keeping the Eucharist from someone, even a public sinner is keeping, him from God’s healing grace. It is my opinion that it is what “saves” all of us.
Normally, I would say the Priest or Bishop has little responsibility to know whether or not an individual is properly disposed. But in the case of the vice president of the united states he doesn’t just publicly support abortion, he has (in the past certainly) publicly mislead the media claiming that there are many grey levels at which the church considers an unborn child alive (this lead to disciplinary action by his own Bishop). He has also stated the Catholic Church lead him to believe Gay Marriage is OK, suggesting Catholic doctrine can be OK with this.
This is a public scandal. In this case without publicly recanting these statements one must believe he still holds to these values. If that is the case, could the vice president be properly disposed to receive communion with the Church?
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John2007
Guest
I work in medicine and have been involved with failed pregnancies (a.k.a. spontanious abortions) throughout my career. Initially, I supported “therapeutic abortion” but have been personally instructed by numerous fetuses that my position was wrong. There is no magic line to tell you when life and soul inhabit the womb. Many who support abortion really are ignorant and have no idea what they are giving license to. That was me in college.
Most people in the U.S. have never been with someone while they died very few people watch what happens during abortion. We can respect someone’s political position on abortion or other life issues, but need to help educate them so them understand why that position is wrong. Condemning someone in a public forum is not effective in changing their heart. A prayer for conversion would seem more appropriate.
John
Most people in the U.S. have never been with someone while they died very few people watch what happens during abortion. We can respect someone’s political position on abortion or other life issues, but need to help educate them so them understand why that position is wrong. Condemning someone in a public forum is not effective in changing their heart. A prayer for conversion would seem more appropriate.
John
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