Bishop Fellay: SSPX Seeks Return to the Past

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I just saw this again and I’m still stunned why the bishop would even agree to interview on this subject, especially when his bosses have been John Paul II and Benedict XVI. I can’t understand how an intelligent man would allow himself to be dragged into this interview, when the Church has given her opinion on it.

This is the one point about Bishop Williamson that I am having difficulties with. He just jumped into this interview and I can’t see how this is necessary. I say this with all due respect to the good bishop. He still deserves my respect as a bishop.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Hi Brother,
I think you have to remember that Williamson was never under any restraint from the SSPX in his views until the blow-up after the excommunications were lifted. Fellay seemed to tolerate and even like his “unusual” point of view. His blog was accessible to all and Fellay always defended Williamson prior to the controversy in January. His holocaust denial (or minimization of it) is a matter of public record since the 1980’s.
See: adl.org/main_Interfaith/Society_Saint_Pius_X.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_5

C.
 
Hi Brother,
I think you have to remember that Williamson was never under any restraint from the SSPX in his views until the blow-up after the excommunications were lifted. Fellay seemed to tolerate and even like his “unusual” point of view. His blog was accessible to all and Fellay always defended Williamson prior to the controversy in January. His holocaust denial (or minimization of it) is a matter of public record since the 1980’s.

C.
I think it’s so sad that they got into the middle of this mess. Let’s pray that it does not do them harm.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The part that struck me odd was his expectation that his opinions would be kept secret by the news media.
 
it seems like when they don’t want to give up a state of affairs they find comfortable, they make up excuses. In 100 years they’ll be ordaining women… assuming they don’t reunite.
 
it seems like when they don’t want to give up a state of affairs they find comfortable, they make up excuses. In 100 years they’ll be ordaining women… assuming they don’t reunite.
Ordaining women I hardly doubt, since the SSPX is very rooted in tradition. Thank God. The four bishops are reunited in a rather irregular manner. They do not have a canonical place in the Church or have any canonical authority to witness marriages or absolve from sin, they are Catholics and they do have Apostolic Succession. In addition, they do not have canonical authority to ordain bishops without a papal mandate. If they did that, then there would be some serious troubles. Let’s hope that no one goes down that route. That would just take us back to the original problem that started all of this in the first place.

Let us pray that the four bishops are guided by the Holy Spirit and remain obedient to the Sacred Congregation for the Faith and that the Sacred Congregation will be patient with them too.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Be very careful here. The Slaves of the Immaculate are in the same position as the SSPX. They do not have canonical status in the Catholic Church. They are Catholics, but not a canonical religious community or a diocesan community. Their relationship with the Church is irregular. The safety there is that they do not have bishops.

I am impressed by their level of erudition.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Be very careful here. The Slaves of the Immaculate are in the same position as the SSPX. They do not have canonical status in the Catholic Church. They are Catholics, but not a canonical religious community or a diocesan community. Their relationship with the Church is irregular. The safety there is that they do not have bishops.

I am impressed by their level of erudition.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Thank you for the warning Br. JR. I know of the situation of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (which differs from the other St. Benedict Center which is in a canonically regular situation saintbenedict.com/). I do not agree with everything they espouse, including their position on Baptism of Desire, but I do recognize the quality of Br. Andre Marie’s writings for what they are and I believe he is spot-on here. Thanks again for the concern and may God bless you my friend.
 
I think you have to remember that Williamson was never under any restraint from the SSPX in his views until the blow-up after the excommunications were lifted. Fellay seemed to tolerate and even like his “unusual” point of view.
Until the blow-up, the SSPX and its bishops were relatively obscure, and Williamson’s opinions were regarded as merely that; opinions. It is the media that caused the blow-up, not bishop Williamson, the reason being that the news of an imminent lifting of excommunications was expected and the media as well as “progressive” bishops needed an excuse for the excommunications NOT to be lifted. We can be certain of that because AFTER the blow-up, a South American bishop (or cardinal, can’t remember which) made similar comments to those of Williamson, but this received no coverage. We can be doubly certain, because the interview, which was taped several months earlier, didn’t come out until around 1/20/09, when it was convenient for those who don’t want anything to do with tradition.

I’d like to add this: Williamson’s opinions, while silly and reprehensible to most, were, as I said, opinions only, on a secular point of history…His opinions harmed nobody (except by perhaps causing a few strokes or heart attacks at the ADL and NYT :rolleyes:). On the other hand, I can rewrite your sentence above which will highlight the difference between this “denier”, and a substantial piece of the post-concilliar church, and I’ll let the viewers come to their own conclusions about who is more reprehensible; bishop Williamson, or the many pervs of the post-concilliar church. It would look like this:

“I think you have to remember that priests were never under any restraint from their bishops (and as a matter of fact, were often aided and abetted) in their sexual abuse of children until after the blow-up in Boston in 2002. Bishops seemed to tolerate and even like the “unusual” acts of their priests”.

Ok, so Williamson hurts nobody, while the post-concilliar pedophile/homosexual priests hurt innocent children.
His blog was accessible to all and Fellay always defended Williamson prior to the controversy in January.
Fellay defended Williamson’s person, or his opinions? Does Fellay agree with the opinions?
His holocaust denial (or minimization of it) is a matter of public record since the 1980’s.
Yeah, and the 6million Jews figure is also a matter of public record…and therefore people CANNOT come to a different opinion about it. CANNNNNOT. I SAID, CANNNNNNOTNOTNOTNOT!
I guess Raul Hilberg, a Jewish historian, also suffers from (a less extreme) case of “holocaust denial” (or minimization of it). He must be a self-loathing Jew or whatever.
 
it seems like when they don’t want to give up a state of affairs they find comfortable, they make up excuses. In 100 years they’ll be ordaining women… assuming they don’t reunite.
Actually no…The SSPX sticks with tradition.

On the other hand, it is a nameless bishop “in good standing” and “in full communion” with the Pope who is alleged to have “ordained” the first women-priests.

Perhaps you should know what’s going on in the world before getting on here and spouting this trash…Just a suggestion.:rolleyes:
 
I am not going to waste much time on the idiotic opinions of Williamson. Or your attempt to reduce this enormous issue to a matter of “secular history”. The Vicar of Christ has deemed his opinions hurtful indeed and has ruled they have no place in the Church. There is no secular history in fact, as you put it. Jesus is Lord of History, and is the focal point of all history. The Holocaust when properly understood is something no one can be indifferent to. The aim of the Third Reich was not merely the eradication of the Jewish people but an attempt to wipe out all religion, to attack God himself. I believe Pope Benedict XVI’s speech at Auschwitz is the best refutation of Williamson and anyone else who thinks the Holocaust is unimportant:

“**The rulers of the Third Reich wanted to crush the entire Jewish people, to cancel it from the register of the peoples of the earth. Thus the words of the Psalm: “We are being killed, accounted as sheep for the slaughter” were fulfilled in a terrifying way. Deep down, those vicious criminals, by wiping out this people, wanted to kill the God who called Abraham, who spoke on Sinai and laid down principles to serve as a guide for mankind, principles that are eternally valid. If this people, by its very existence, was a witness to the God who spoke to humanity and took us to himself, then that God finally had to die and power had to belong to man alone - to those men, who thought that by force they had made themselves masters of the world. By destroying Israel, by the Shoah, they ultimately wanted to tear up the taproot of the Christian faith and to replace it with a faith of their own invention: faith in the rule of man, the rule of the powerful.”
**
See: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/may/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060528_auschwitz-birkenau_en.html

C.
 
On the other hand, it is a nameless bishop “in good standing” and “in full communion” with the Pope who is alleged to have “ordained” the first women-priests.
Yes but is he under a microscope at all times like the SSPX bishops and some of the priests? Probably not because you’ll get a lot more public sentiment in favor of women priests than restoration of pre-Vatican II conditions.

Of course, post-SP the general climate against all TLMs has been quelled. Prior to that it seems as if all priests who wanted to say the TLM were undermined, even persecuted. So maybe with the next motu proprio the SSPX priests will be freed and their bishops more respected.

Hopefully they will have either deleted or updated all their websites by then. If the Pope were to make that a condition for “full” communion, I certainly would not have any objections.
 
I am not going to waste much time on the idiotic opinions of Williamson.
Nor have I…Nor will I…I’m not a historian, and I’ll leave it to them continue researching the matter (unless, of course, there are no mysteries unrevealed about the holocaust thereby making any more historical research redundant).
Or your attempt to reduce this enormous issue to a matter of “secular history”.
Thanks for taking my comments out of context (or perhaps sincerely not understanding my point). My point, in using the term “secular” is to show that while Bishop Williamson may be wrong, it’s in a secular way as opposed to a dogmatic way. His error has nothing to do with falsely representing dogma or Catholic teaching that could have serious implications for the souls under his care…but rather a point of history, which has nothing to do with the salvation of souls. If he said 2+2=5 he’d again be wrong, but not in a way that would destroy souls the way homosexual and pedophile priests working under deliberately blind-eyed bishops does. That was my point.
The Vicar of Christ has deemed his opinions hurtful indeed and has ruled they have no place in the Church.
Error has no rights…And although the comments are hurtful and insensitive, that doesn’t mean the pope should have, or even could have, withheld the lifting of his excommunication, especially given the fact that, at least in the youtube video I saw of the bishop, his comments weren’t delivered in a manner that reads “hater”, “bigot”, or “irreparable evil-doer”. They simply came accross as sincere, but incorrect. If it were a matter of faith, then the pope would have had to have made sure that he no longer holds the error before readmitting him, but since it’s an opinion of a historical event, which, by the way, the bishop has said he is fully willing to reconsider after further review of information on the subject, the pope couldn’t arbitrarily hold back his “re-communication”.
There is no secular history in fact, as you put it. Jesus is Lord of History, and is the focal point of all history. The Holocaust when properly understood is something no one can be indifferent to. The aim of the Third Reich was not merely the eradication of the Jewish people but an attempt to wipe out all religion, to attack God himself.
So I take it that you speak out as ardently against communism and the many genocides that have accompanied it? After all, it has killed many more than Nazism did, and it, too, is an attack on God…Just askin’.
 
Of course, post-SP the general climate against all TLMs has been quelled.
I’m still waiting to observe this for myself. From the viewpoint of the “TLM” as a whole, down to just certain aspects of Catholic worship that aren’t normally practiced anymore, I still see a huuuuge resistance as making up the general climate. Just IMHO, at least.
Hopefully they will have either deleted or updated all their websites by then. If the Pope were to make that a condition for “full” communion, I certainly would not have any objections.
As I said above, error has no rights…as far as their website goes, hang the error and keep the good.
 
Does anyone else feel that this thread is taking a negative turn or is it just me? I get the impression that we have gone from discussion the issue of the SSPX full return to the Church to defending or denying their merits.

I’d like to offer a suggestion. We should approach this from the same perspective that the great saints and the mystics would approach it. That perspective always asks the question, “What is God’s will for us?”

If we handle this issue from that pespective, we can’t go wrong. What does God want from the Church? What does God want the SSPX to bring to the Church? How does God want us to help bring our brothers and sisters back into a loving community that is filled with mercy and compassion for all? What can each of us say that will help heal, rather than divide or offend?

There have been mistakes. There is never any use trying to cover the sun with a dime. It ain’t gonna happen. But the mistakes are not what God is about. God knows man’s mistakes. When Christ goes to the cross, scripture tells us that he had already spend 40 days in the desert. He had lived the hell of human existence. He has seen and felt every temptation and every sin that humanity had committed in the past and would commit in the future. But he does not go to the cross with reproaches or defenses. He goes to the cross with open arms and welcomes the thief who steals one last time. This time he steals Christ’s heart with one simple sentence, “Remember me.”

Can we say this for the SSPX and the Holy See? Can we ask God to remember us or do we have to spend so much time and energy in the desert relieving human hell?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Does anyone else feel that this thread is taking a negative turn or is it just me? I get the impression that we have gone from discussion the issue of the SSPX full return to the Church to defending or denying their merits.
It is practically unavoidable. No SSPX can go long without either someone disparaging them and their position **or **someone promoting and defending the SSPX and their position. Once the first shot is fired both sides have a reason to defend against the assault.

I remember back when talks first started how the SSPX kept reminding us that these discussions are an* internal* matter and should not be prematurely brought out in public. That was what the Holy Father wanted. Most of us on both sides backed off for quite a while. I regret that Fellay has chosen to reject this understanding by granting a public interview for a magazine. Since this was done contrary to keeping the discussions private, I have used the word “posturing” as one of the nicer terms I could think of.
 
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