Bishop Paprocki: Place tabernacle in center of sanctuary

[christofirst]

courageouspriest.com/bishop-paprocki-direct-eucharist-center-sanctuary

My question is, in an case like our Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, where the tabernacle is in a separate adoration room to the side of the sanctuary, is it possible that the Blessed Sacrament be kept in two places? Could they add a tabernacle at the center of the sanctuary (and somewhat satisfy one of the criticisms of our cathedral), and still keep the Eucharist in the Adoration room, where many of us go for silent prayer and adoration?

 

[Chatter163]

No, normally the Sacrament would not be kept in two different public places within the same church. But typically the Sacrament was never kept at the high altar in most large cathedrals, even back in the day.

 

[christofirst]

No, normally the Sacrament would not be kept in two different public places within the same church. But typically the Sacrament was never kept at the high altar in most large cathedrals, even back in the day.

What about some of the smaller churches around here, which have the tabernacle at the center of the sanctuary and a separate adoration room (a few of which offer 24 hour adoration)? Isn’t the Blessed Sacrament in 2 public places there? Or is the tabernacle at the altar empty when the Host is in the adoration room?

 

[Brendan]

But typically the Sacrament was never kept at the high altar in most large cathedrals, even back in the day.

That is true, it would be kept at the altar that was used for the more commonly daily Mass.

For the High Mass in a Cathedral, a Deacon would be present to repose the Eucharist, as the celebrating priest was not permitted to leave the Sanctuary during Mass.

But during a daily Mass, such a deacon would not be present, therefore the Eucharist was reserved at the side altar where Mass was said.

 

[TimothyH]

The bishop in the article speaks only for his own diocese. He has zero control over anything that happens in any other diocese.

I’m always skeptical of anyone or anything (websites included) which claim to know better than everyone else and seek to correct the rest of us in our great, unwashed ignorance.

-Tim-

 

[phil19034]

No, normally the Sacrament would not be kept in two different public places within the same church. But typically the Sacrament was never kept at the high altar in most large cathedrals, even back in the day.

I’m not sure if this is totally true. For example, the Cathedral Basilica of Saints Peter and Paul in Philadelphia has two tabernacles. One in the large main sanctuary, behind the High Altar and a second one in the large Chapel of Our Lady of the Blessed Sacrament (which is the size of an average parish Church). NOTE: the Tabernacle behind the High Altar is new and the consecrated hosts used to be located in the Tabernacle located behind one of the two side Sanctuary Altars, but now is behind the High Altar.

Before co-celebrations of Mass were allowed, the Basilica had 11 active Altars with (I believe) 10 tabernacles. Today, the relics have been removed from the side Altars and the tabernacles are empty (except of course in in the main sanctuary and the sanctuary of the Chapel). Additionally, three of tabernacles along the side Altars in the Nave were removed when the Altars were remodeled into three 3 shrines in 2008 - 2009 dedicated Saint John Neumann, Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, & Our Lady of Guadalupe.

However, this got me thinking and I will attend a tour one day and ask about the tabernacles.

God Bless.

 

[glendab]

The lack of the Blessed Sacrament in a Tabernacle that is obvious to us in* any *church is upsetting to me on a very fundamental level. If there is a Tabernacle, then it should contain the Blessed Sacrament, each and everyone. I don’t think God could stand too much adoration even if He is hidden from our eyes behind a locked door and protected in the confines of the Tabernacle. It should be the center of every Church and the focal point in it’s architecture. This was done for millennia. This wasn’t a mistake. As we say that the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of our Catholic Faith, then this should be reflected in our Church architecture. It used to be, but if you ask me, the moving of God from place to place within the Church buildings is a sign and not a good one.

I really had a hard time as a new Catholic the first time I went to a church and couldn’t easily find where the Blessed Sacrament was located. I walked around an empty “worship space” for about 15 minutes looking and finally found someone and asked. I was directed to a different room and found it completely dark except for the little bit of light cast from the single Tabernacle Candle in it holder and the person escorting me there left. I literally fell to my knees and cried for about a half an hour. I got the message - worship spaces were “in” and the Blessed Sacrament was “out.” Easy message to get.

When I left that place on the way out of the main church where Mass is held, I noticed in the Narthex room a small plaque about 2 inches by 5 inches in bronze on the wall in a hard to notice place. It read “Blessed Sacrament Chapel” and had an arrow pointing to the left. You had to go down a hallway to get to it. I left thinking God isn’t welcome anymore in His own House!

Sorry if I offend but that is how I felt and what I thought.

Glenda

P.S. The Church I was visiting was a very famous place for its music and many come to it from far and wide. It is home to the Norbertines and it is in the State I live in, but I won’t name it for obvious reasons.

 

[twf]

The Archbishop of Vancouver mandated, some years ago, that the tabernacle be in the centre of the sanctuary in all churches throughout the archdiocese…with a few exceptions for practical reasons.

 

[christofirst]

The bishop in the article speaks only for his own diocese. He has zero control over anything that happens in any other diocese.

I’m always skeptical of anyone or anything (websites included) which claim to know better than everyone else and seek to correct the rest of us in our great, unwashed ignorance.

-Tim-

I know his directive only applies to his own diocese. It is just a concern I’ve heard others express here, and I was wondering if there might be a simple solution. Also, I understand how a major cathedral is different in that in some ways it takes on the atmosphere of a museum at times with the constant flow of tourists, Catholics and non-Catholics alike. I can see the advantage of having the tabernacle in a designated area away from guided tours and the like, as it is here in L.A. Thanks for the answers.

 

[detoutcoeur]

Since the tabernacle was moved back to the center several months ago, people have become more reverent when they enter the church, and often stop by to pray before the Blessed Sacrament during the day.

 

[anixx]

No, normally the Sacrament would not be kept in two different public places within the same church. But typically the Sacrament was never kept at the high altar in most large cathedrals, even back in the day.

But if we are talking about a larger church, which has a chapel, then the chapel can hold another tabernacle.

As for the subject. It is very gladdening to see a return to common sense. It’s good to see this kind of stories, among all terrible news. God bless bishop Paprocki!

 

[TimothyH]

*The lack of the Blessed Sacrament in a Tabernacle that is obvious to us in any ***church is upsetting to me on a very fundamental level. If there is a Tabernacle, then it should contain the Blessed Sacrament, each and everyone. I don’t think God could stand too much adoration even if He is hidden from our eyes behind a locked door and protected in the confines of the Tabernacle. It should be the center of every Church and the focal point in it’s architecture. This was done for millennia. This wasn’t a mistake. As we say that the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of our Catholic Faith, then this should be reflected in our Church architecture. It used to be, but if you ask me, the moving of God from place to place within the Church buildings is a sign and not a good one.

I really had a hard time as a new Catholic the first time I went to a church and couldn’t easily find where the Blessed Sacrament was located. I walked around an empty “worship space” for about 15 minutes looking and finally found someone and asked. I was directed to a different room and found it completely dark except for the little bit of light cast from the single Tabernacle Candle in it holder and the person escorting me there left. I literally fell to my knees and cried for about a half an hour. I got the message - worship spaces were “in” and the Blessed Sacrament was “out.” Easy message to get.

When I left that place on the way out of the main church where Mass is held, I noticed in the Narthex room a small plaque about 2 inches by 5 inches in bronze on the wall in a hard to notice place. It read “Blessed Sacrament Chapel” and had an arrow pointing to the left. You had to go down a hallway to get to it. I left thinking God isn’t welcome anymore in His own House!

Sorry if I offend but that is how I felt and what I thought.

Glenda

P.S. The Church I was visiting was a very famous place for its music and many come to it from far and wide. It is home to the Norbertines and it is in the State I live in, but I won’t name it for obvious reasons.

There is no need to be upset. The Blessed Sacrament is only supposed to be reserved in one tabernacle as per canon law.

*Can. 938 §1. The Most Holy Eucharist is to be reserved habitually in only one tabernacle of a church or oratory. *

Reference vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3C.HTM

What we do is move Jesus to either the chapel or the main Church after each Mass depending on where the next Mass is to be celebrated. Jesus goes to where Mass is to be celebrated next.

But you are only supposed to have Jesus reposed in one tabernacle, not multiple. In a Church with multiple tabernacles - one in the chapel and one in the main Church - there will always be one empty. You are free to be offended but it is perfectly normal, the way it is supposed to be.

-Tim-

 

[Chatter163]

I’m not sure if this is totally true. For example, the Cathedral Basilica of Saints Peter and Paul in Philadelphia has two tabernacles. One in the large main sanctuary, behind the High Altar and a second one in the large Chapel of Our Lady of the Blessed Sacrament (which is the size of an average parish Church). NOTE: the Tabernacle behind the High Altar is new and the consecrated hosts used to be located in the Tabernacle located behind one of the two side Sanctuary Altars, but now is behind the High Altar.

Before co-celebrations of Mass were allowed, the Basilica had 11 active Altars with (I believe) 10 tabernacles. Today, the relics have been removed from the side Altars and the tabernacles are empty (except of course in in the main sanctuary and the sanctuary of the Chapel). Additionally, three of tabernacles along the side Altars in the Nave were removed when the Altars were remodeled into three 3 shrines in 2008 - 2009 dedicated Saint John Neumann, Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, & Our Lady of Guadalupe.

However, this got me thinking and I will attend a tour one day and ask about the tabernacles.

God Bless.

Many cathedrals and older churches have side altars or chapels that contain tabernacles. In most cases, the tabernacles were never used. They were there for occasions when the Sacrament might have to be moved from Its regular location, or the design of the altar and gradine simply included a tabernacle. It has nothing to do with whether or not Mass was regularly said at the side altar. I can assure you that the Most Holy was not kept in 11 different tabernacles of the same church.

The code of canon law says:

Can. 938 §1. The Most Holy Eucharist is to be reserved habitually in only one tabernacle of a church or oratory.

 

[glendab]

Hello Tim.

There is no need to be upset. The Blessed Sacrament is only supposed to be reserved in one tabernacle as per canon law.

Can. 938 §1. The Most Holy Eucharist is to be reserved habitually in only one tabernacle of a church or oratory.

Reference vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3C.HTM

What we do is move Jesus to either the chapel or the main Church after each Mass depending on where the next Mass is to be celebrated. Jesus goes to where Mass is to be celebrated next.

But you are only supposed to have Jesus reposed in one tabernacle, not multiple. In a Church with multiple tabernacles - one in the chapel and one in the main Church - there will always be one empty. You are free to be offended but it is perfectly normal, the way it is supposed to be.

-Tim-

Thanks for the reply. That was my reaction as a new Catholic. I once stayed I a Convent of the Missionaries of Charity for 9 months as a volunteer. We had three Tabernacles in the House and all three places had Mass and Adoration in them. One was a private Chapel for the Sisters only and Mass there wasn’t as often as the other two Chapels. Were the Sisters *breaking *the Canon Laws regarding the number of Tabernacles?

If you think the only laws in the Church are those contained in the Code of Canon Law of 1983, then you are mistaken. The Sister’s provisions were a part of the entire Laws governing the Church under the term customs as were many of the particular practices special to them and them alone. The rest was their own particular Rules. There is also the individual Rules that each Religious Institution lives by and they in their entirety are approved by the Holy See, yet when they are being formed there is a charity given them until they seek approval of the Holy See. Some do challenge them during those times, but that kind of trial is usually part of what makes a Founder or Foundress a Saint. The Rules are just as binding as any Canon Law, perhaps in some regards more so.

I have feelings about some practices that are occurring in our times in the Church. I know they are simply feelings and should be under control, but they are my feelings.

I don’t think there ever will be anyone assigned in the Church to go around to all the places Jesus lays His Divine Head down in the Tabernacle resting waiting for us to come to Him so He can be with us and make sure there is only one Tabernacle per place of worship.

BTW, all three tabernacles always has freshly consecrated Hosts and I was thrilled that I could visit with Jesus any free time I had. I usually went down to see Him last thing before I went to bed for the night to tuck Him in. My bedroom was directly over one of the Chapels where He was and I loved being there. [edited]

Glenda

 

[TimothyH]

Hello Tim.

Thanks for the reply. That was my reaction as a new Catholic. I once stayed I a Convent of the Missionaries of Charity for 9 months as a volunteer. We had three Tabernacles in the House and all three places had Mass and Adoration in them. One was a private Chapel for the Sisters only and Mass there wasn’t as often as the other two Chapels. Were the Sisters *breaking *the Canon Laws regarding the number of Tabernacles?

If you think the only laws in the Church are those contained in the Code of Canon Law of 1983, then you are mistaken. The Sister’s provisions were a part of the entire Laws governing the Church under the term customs as were many of the particular practices special to them and them alone. The rest was their own particular Rules. There is also the individual Rules that each Religious Institution lives by and they in their entirety are approved by the Holy See, yet when they are being formed there is a charity given them until they seek approval of the Holy See. Some do challenge them during those times, but that kind of trial is usually part of what makes a Founder or Foundress a Saint. The Rules are just as binding as any Canon Law, perhaps in some regards more so.

I have feelings about some practices that are occurring in our times in the Church. I know they are simply feelings and should be under control, but they are my feelings.

I don’t think there ever will be anyone assigned in the Church to go around to all the places Jesus lays His Divine Head down in the Tabernacle resting waiting for us to come to Him so He can be with us and make sure there is only one Tabernacle per place of worship.

BTW, all three tabernacles always has freshly consecrated Hosts and I was thrilled that I could visit with Jesus any free time I had. I usually went down to see Him last thing before I went to bed for the night to tuck Him in. My bedroom was directly over one of the Chapels where He was and I loved being there**. I have the Sister’s address. Perhaps you could write them a letter and quote the Canons to them and ask them to clear out their House. Hmmmm? Sorry. I couldn’t resist.**

Glenda

There is really no need to do that. Forget it.

There is a perfectly legitimate reason why the Sisters of Charity do what they did but forget it. Do whatever you want. Believe what ever you want. Take whatever sarcastic and condescending attitude you want with anyone you want. Apparently nine month with the Sisters of Charity didn’t teach you a damn thing.

I’m sorry I replied to you.

-Tim-

 

[Timothysis]

glendab[edited]

Religious orders often have rules that differ from the general canons. It isn’t unusual. What Tim wrote is the standing general rule, respecting that things may be different among religious orders. [edited]

 

[YoungTradCath]

The bishop in the article speaks only for his own diocese. He has zero control over anything that happens in any other diocese.

I’m always skeptical of anyone or anything (websites included) which claim to know better than everyone else and seek to correct the rest of us in our great, unwashed ignorance.

-Tim-

I’m not aware of anyone who says this.

Rather, it is true that both the center-of-church and side-chapel location of tabernacles are fine. It is also true that there are plenty of closetesque “chapels” out there that are not located in a prominent place, are not decorated, and seem to be hidden due to ideological or faulty theological reasons (ever read stuff written by some disparaging adoration? usually also such authors vehemently disparage central tabernacles), and that is a problem. It seems to be a problem not confined to any one part of the United States. Sure, the bishop doesn’t speak for any other diocese, but what I have said is pretty prevalent in many places.

For my part I don’t especially care if the tabernacle is in a chapel, but it should be blindingly obvious where it is, easy to find, and readily accessible. It shouldn’t be some tiny broomcloset with one prie-dieu and no art and (of course) ugly carpet in a wealthy suburban church that seats 1000 people; that seems pretty ideological and yes, I can think of a few places with this situation.

 

[janeway529]

courageouspriest.com/bishop-paprocki-direct-eucharist-center-sanctuary

My question is, in an case like our Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, where the tabernacle is in a separate adoration room to the side of the sanctuary, is it possible that the Blessed Sacrament be kept in two places? Could they add a tabernacle at the center of the sanctuary (and somewhat satisfy one of the criticisms of our cathedral), and still keep the Eucharist in the Adoration room, where many of us go for silent prayer and adoration?

Interestingly, there’s actually a small tabernacle behind the large one in that chapel that is used to keep the Blessed Sacrament after Mass.

Also, as Bro. JR has mentioned before on this forum, having the tabernacle in the sanctuary is a newer innovation.

 

[larsont7]

But if we are talking about a larger church, which has a chapel, then the chapel can hold another tabernacle.

As for the subject. It is very gladdening to see a return to common sense. It’s good to see this kind of stories, among all terrible news. God bless bishop Paprocki!

Well said, though I do hope the good Bishop takes it a step further. If the tabernacle is moved to the center of the sanctuary, I hope we see a greater return to Mass being said ad orientem as well. I know one parish in my archdiocese that has already started moving in that direction.

 

[anixx]

Well said, though I do hope the good Bishop takes it a step further. If the tabernacle is moved to the center of the sanctuary, I hope we see a greater return to Mass being said ad orientem as well. I know one parish in my archdiocese that has already started moving in that direction.

I what way? Meaning that there is EF Mass, also?