Bishop puts Confirmation before First Communion, wins Pope's praise [CWN]

[Phemie]

Sorry, but kids at that age do what their parents tell them. I think I confirmed at about 11 or 12, and well picking out my name was the only part that mattered and then my Mom gave me a Saint name. Too young in my honest opinion. Whats the rush?

Confirmation is not something we do, it’s something that done to us. It requires nothing more from us than our presence. Babies can be confirmed so it certainly doesn’t require knowledge of the faith.

 

[mburn16]

Perhaps I can provide some insight here:

I’m 20. I was raised as a go-to-church-every-sunday Catholic up until about age 12, when my parents became not quite as religious as they had been. For this reason, I was not confirmed at the younger, teenage point when most churches in my area do it. Now, I still intend to be confirmed, and probably will seek this particular sacrament next year (after I dedicate myself more rigorously to the faith)…and it will be my decision. There is something significant to be gained when it is the individual’s choice as to what course to pursue, and not simply mommy and daddy nudging them down the aisle of the church. From personal experience, the dedication and perseverance to act and conduct as a good Christian will be that much stronger.

Now some of you mention that confirmation isn’t simply the point when a person decides to continue as a Catholic. Perhaps this is true, but then…what DOES mark that point? Its a significant milestone. How many people live their Catholic lives simply “going through the motions”, showing up at church on Sundays (or just Christmas and Easter) just because they have some nagging thought that they should be in the pew?

To Consciously decide to live as a Christian, by your own free will cannot be understated. If this is a secondary role assigned to confirmation by general practice, I’m now sure thats something to complain about.

Of course, if you disagree, and you don’t believe that the maturity or consent or understanding of the child is important, and you don’t believe we need to provide a more special recognition to that conscious choice, then I see little reason to even separate the sacrament from infancy.

 

[mburn16]

Babies can be confirmed so it certainly doesn’t require knowledge of the faith.

It doesn’t require knowledge of the faith, but do we benefit from having knowledge of the faith, and even a conscious hand in embarking towards the sacrament? I certainly feel we do.

 

[ProVobis]

Sorry, but kids at that age do what their parents tell them. I think I confirmed at about 11 or 12, and well picking out my name was the only part that mattered and then my Mom gave me a Saint name. Too young in my honest opinion. Whats the rush?

I was confirmed about the same age and I remember Confirmation meant everyone had to study the catechism backwards and forwards as the bishop would be testing us on the night of Confirmation. After Confirmation, there wasn’t much motivation to learn anything more.

 

[tafan]

Perhaps I can provide some insight here:

I’m 20. I was raised as a go-to-church-every-sunday Catholic up until about age 12, when my parents became not quite as religious as they had been. For this reason, I was not confirmed at the younger, teenage point when most churches in my area do it. Now, I still intend to be confirmed, and probably will seek this particular sacrament next year (after I dedicate myself more rigorously to the faith)…and it will be my decision. There is something significant to be gained when it is the individual’s choice as to what course to pursue, and not simply mommy and daddy nudging them down the aisle of the church. From personal experience, the dedication and perseverance to act and conduct as a good Christian will be that much stronger.

Now some of you mention that confirmation isn’t simply the point when a person decides to continue as a Catholic. Perhaps this is true, but then…what DOES mark that point? Its a significant milestone. How many people live their Catholic lives simply “going through the motions”, showing up at church on Sundays (or just Christmas and Easter) just because they have some nagging thought that they should be in the pew?

To Consciously decide to live as a Christian, by your own free will cannot be understated. If this is a secondary role assigned to confirmation by general practice, I’m now sure thats something to complain about.

Of course, if you disagree, and you don’t believe that the maturity or consent or understanding of the child is important, and you don’t believe we need to provide a more special recognition to that conscious choice, then I see little reason to even separate the sacrament from infancy.

And in the east and some countries in the western church it is not seperates from infant baptism.

That “point” ( as described) is not marked in the Catholic church, as our conversion is a life long process and we are all conitually deciding to continue to be catholic. Again, it is all about the specific graces received, they are real.

 

[Brendan]

If they know what Christian means.

Can any of us REALLY know that, at least this side of the veil. And even then, we’ll spend eternity learning it even more.

 

[Luvtosew]

Can any of us REALLY know that, at least this side of the veil. And even then, we’ll spend eternity learning it even more.

Yes we should know what Christian means and our beliefs, I agree our faith and knowledge should grow with age but we should be learning the main things about our faith and why we are Christians when young.

What is the purpose of confirmation?

 

[Anna_Claire]

The Cathechism places Confirmation as a sacrament of initiation between Baptism and Eucharist. The three go together. It’s was never suppose to be the sacrament of maturity when we ultimately decide to choose to follow Catholicism. It’s best to shed that way of thinking.
also, Its a confusing sacrament as it stands today because bishops in different dioceses can decide the appropriate age.
We know that Baptism is a washing/cleansing. In scripture,in the early church not much is said about Confirmation because it was always understood as part of Baptism. It was an ancient custom that a washing with water was always finished with an anointing with fragrant oils. So washing and anointing always went together. Thats how the signs of water and anointing became sacramental signs. Today, They are still seen as connected but over the years they became separate. However because they have been separated by age years…we have lost their important meaning.
Theologians and liturgists have been arguing these points for over 30 years. I believe Pope Benedict was part of these discussions. So this is a good and positive decision. Hopefully other bishops will follow the bishop of Fargo.
Being cleansed of original sin with water and the Holy Spirit is followed by an anointing with holy chrism to seal in the gifts given to us by the Holy Spirit and then…we are ready for Eucharist…the Source we need to use the gifts and graces we were given at our Baptism.

 

[mark_a]

Sorry, but kids at that age do what their parents tell them. I think I confirmed at about 11 or 12, and well picking out my name was the only part that mattered and then my Mom gave me a Saint name. Too young in my honest opinion. Whats the rush?

No disagreements from me.

 

[Luvtosew]

Ok I’ve been doing reading and baptism is

Baptism in the Church

1226 From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26 The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27 Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household,” St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28

Unfortuantely baptism imparts grace and admittance in the Christian family or Church,
but a baby is not aware of that or even remembers it, its a passive sacrament at a young age as a baby.

Now confirmation is from what I read infilling of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, which should not be a passive sacrament, but performed on Christians who fully realize what it signifies and means, and to me at a young age children do not understand this, especially if they do not understand the trinity, who the Holy Spirit is, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, how Jesus died for our salvation, and well I fear this is another passive sacrament. Although I"m aware that some parents know more and they teach their kids better and kids may be smarter nowdays with the internet and Cathechism available. I believe this should be a very important sacrament, with full knowledgable participation on the recepient.

But atlas who am I to tell the Church how I feel.

I think many adults who convert to the Catholic Church are more aware of the meaning, its the same with the Eucharist, to receive it without complete understanding of what it signifies I feel is in vain. I know the church feels it imparts grace, but how does one receive that grace without knowing they are receiving it and the importance of it.

Being pre-vatican maybe things are different now with cathecism, but I have read that even some college people in a Catholic College do not know some of this stuff.

I’'m not in no way putting down the Catholic faith or anything, but I heard a homily on Tv today about how we need to have a personal relationship with Jesus, and its not about how beautiful the Church is or the sacraments but our relationship with our Creator and how we have to look past the rituals (that is what the Priest said) . I fear that even now days, many Catholics , like me never knew what that means even by the time I graduatated by HS. Of course a lot depends on the parents also.

This is just my opinion which means well not much. But one has to wonder why young adults kinda leave the Church, quit going to Mass in their 20’s and then return later in life.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Only if we see Confirmation as “my choice” or the child making a personal choice to become a Catholic. It’s not. (The child became a Catholic when he was baptized.)

Confirmation is not “Graduation from Sunday School,” and nor is it the Catholic version of Bar Mitzvah. It is the beginning of a Christian life empowered by the Holy Spirit. The younger, the better, I say.

Exactly. I was completely ill-catechized when it came to Confirmation. Now your neighbors to the east have the sacraments rightfully ordered already. Baptism, First Reconciliation, Confirmation and First Communion. Now if only my diocese would get things back in order, particularly first reconciliation, which for some odd reason happens in grade 4 after first communion, despite what Canon Law says.

 

[curlycool89]

Although conformation can seem like rubber-stamping, full understanding of the faith is never really achieved in this life, so I’d say one needs to know the basics. Acceptance of the sacrament infers the desire to receive it.

Wellll … sort-of. We always have the internal desire to seek God, but God never forces himself on us and always waits until we are truly ready (and He’s infinitely more patient then all of us put together).

Bishops presume that when one shows up at confirmation mass, confirmees actually want to be Catholic.

I think that’s pushing it. Kids do what their parents want them to do or make them do. They’re excited because their parents are excited.

Whats the rush? Do you not understand the efficacy of the sacraments. In this day, when kids are bombarded with immorality at every turn, they need all the graces they can get, ASAP

Grace only works when you cooperate with it. Grace is not Magic, it does not override someone’s will if they do not want it or accept it (just like God).

So really, the education and faith background is really what is important, and Grace will work on top of that. If they don’t have the background, the Grace may not really help that much.

Perhaps I can provide some insight here:

I’m 20. I was raised as a go-to-church-every-sunday Catholic up until about age 12, when my parents became not quite as religious as they had been. For this reason, I was not confirmed at the younger, teenage point when most churches in my area do it. Now, I still intend to be confirmed, and probably will seek this particular sacrament next year (after I dedicate myself more rigorously to the faith)…and it will be my decision. There is something significant to be gained when it is the individual’s choice as to what course to pursue, and not simply mommy and daddy nudging them down the aisle of the church. From personal experience, the dedication and perseverance to act and conduct as a good Christian will be that much stronger.

You know, as a cradle Catholic, I admit that I sometimes wish I had that opportunity to go through the sacraments at a time when I understood what was going on.

Of course, if you disagree, and you don’t believe that the maturity or consent or understanding of the child is important, and you don’t believe we need to provide a more special recognition to that conscious choice, then I see little reason to even separate the sacrament from infancy.

You know what, I think you’ve hit the proverbial nail on the head here.

I see a lot of people saying that it’s all about just receiving Confirmation. If that’s really it, then we should just do it at Baptism like in the East. Catechesis doesn’t have to be tied to receiving a Sacrament, and what you believe doesn’t affect the validity of the Sacrament. What exactly is the point of delaying it at all after Baptism at all then?

I think that’s really where I stand. If we say that the person being confirmed doesn’t need to understand what’s going on and mommy and daddy’s consent is enough to put the child through it, then there’s no difference between doing it at 6 months or 10 years old. We really have no reason to delay it at all.

If on the other hand we think that people should understand what’s going on when they receive confirmation, then we need to stop pretending that all kids understand what’s going on at 8 or even 12, because they don’t. Either that means we move all the kids back a few more years (personally, I like 16, but that’s just my own opinion), or we stop throwing them all together at the same age and recognize that kids are at different levels of maturity at the same age. Yes I know that some people would hate for their kids to not be with their friends all together, but, in my opinion, that’s completely missing the point of the Sacrament. If it’s not a “coming of age” then it’s not a “coming of age” at any age, and that means that we shouldn’t just be putting them through just because they turned 8 (or whatever).

 

[jmcrae]

If they know what Christian means.

That’s what Catechism classes are for - and Catholic children should be enrolled in them every year from kindergarten to Grade 12. They should not be considered “optional” or in some way equivalent to general interest programs or sports programs.

We shouldn’t tie the Sacraments to knowledge tests - that’s what Catechism classes are for.

 

[angelic06]

The task of Holy Chrismation is to grant the gifts of the Holy Spirit to the person so annointed, not to mark a milestone for anything. The decision for a person to make a conscious decision to follow Jesus Christ is marked by another sacrament: Holy Confession, which precedes every sacrament save baptism: Holy Eucharist, Chrismation, Marriage (see CIC 1065 no. 2 for this one), Orders…