Bishop Sheen on false ecumenism

[Pax_et_Caritas]

The following was written by the good Bishop before Vatican II - when Catholics were still comfortably speaking the truth. He discusses the mind of the Church with respect to the false ecumenism of our day, such as was demonstrated at Assisi.

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. Taken from the book “Moods and Truths”
Published in 1932
Bishop Sheen::

“The Catholic Church intolerant.” That simple thought, like a yellow-fever sign, is supposed to be the one solid reason which should frighten away any one who might be contemplating knocking at the portals of the Church for entrance, or for a crumb of the Bread of Life. When proof for this statement is asked, it is retorted that the Church is intolerant because of its self-complacency and smug satisfaction as the unique interpreter of the thoughts of Christ. Its narrow-mindedness is supposed to be revealed in its unwillingness to cooperate effectively with other Christian bodies that are working for the union of churches. Within the last ten years, two great world conferences on religion have been held, in which every great religion except the Catholic participated. The Catholic Church was invited to attend and discuss the two important subjects of doctrine and ministry, but she refused the invitation.

"That is not all. Even in our own country she has refused to lend a helping hand in the federating of those churches which decided it was better to throw dogmatic differences into the background, in order to serve better the religious needs of America. The other churches would give her a royal welcome, but she will not come. She will not cooperate! She will not conform! And she will not conform because she is too narrow-minded and intolerant! …

Such is, practically every one will admit, a fair statement of the attitude the modern world bears to the Church. The charge of intolerance is not new. It was once directed against Our Blessed Lord Himself…

Here’s a link to the rest of the article: wasthepoperight.blogspot.com/2007/12/curse-of-broadmindedness.html

 

[Arnobius]

I think it indicates more you don’t understand what Assisi was about if you think there was a conflict between it and Sheen… Certainly the Pope never said all religions were equally valid, which is the attitude condemned by Sheen.

Perhaps it might do you some good to go and read what the Pope actually said instead of taking the word of those who misrepresent him

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

I think it indicates more you don’t understand what Assisi was about if you think there was a conflict between it and Sheen… Certainly the Pope never said all religions were equally valid, which is the attitude condemned by Sheen.

Perhaps it might do you some good to go and read what the Pope actually said instead of taking the word of those who misrepresent him

I’ve read what the Pope actually said, have you? Did you know that, at Assisi, the member of false religions - Hindus, Muslems, African Animists, worshippers of the Great Thumb, etc. etc. etc. - were each given a room where they were allowed to offer false worship, which is a mortal sin against the first commandment? This was permitted and encouraged by John Paul II. He believed that God would be so pleased by His Vicar on earth encouraging a mortal sin against the first commandment, that He would grant world peace.

And when the Jews complained about the crucifixes, it was agreed that all crucifixes would be removed so as not to offend the unbelieving Jews who hate any thought of Christ. Those that could not be removed were covered up. I’m sure Jesus was very pleased with this act of “charity” by His Vicar.

What would you say if your priest invited memers of assorted false religions to your Church, and allowed each to stand at the altar and make a prayer to their false god or gods? And what if he then provided them a room where they could offer false worship to their respective gods in the hope that the true God would be so pleased that he would grant world peace?

If my Priest did such a thing I would think he lost the faith, and would never return to that Church as long as he was there. But for some reason when John Paul II does the same he is proclaimed The Great. Such is the confusion in the Church today.

 

[Arnobius]

Yes I have read the works of the Pope and that is why I can say what he taught and what Sheen taught are the same.

So can you back up your version of events from anything that doesn’t call the Pope an “antipope” or “heretic”

 

[Caesar]

Yes I have read the works of the Pope and that is why I can say what he taught and what Sheen taught are the same.

So can you back up your version of events from anything that doesn’t call the Pope an “antipope” or “heretic”

I never saw those terms used in the above posts. Please quote the relevant parts for me.

 

[Arnobius]

I never saw those terms used in the above posts. Please quote the relevant parts for me.

I’m asking the OP to provide me proof of his rather biased claims from objective sites that are not schismatic in nature. I thought that was rather obvious from context.

 

[stmaria]

Yes I have read the works of the Pope and that is why I can say what he taught and what Sheen taught are the same.

So can you back up your version of events from anything that doesn’t call the Pope an “antipope” or “heretic”

Here is a Baptist version of the events
wayoflife.org/fbns/popesstrange.htm

“ASSISI, Italy–Chants, temple bells and pagan spells echoed around the Roman Catholic shrines of Assisi yesterday as Pope John Paul II and his 200 guests from the world’s 12 main religions prayed for world peace…
“The medicineman of the Crow Indians [spirit worshippers], Chief John Pretty-on-Top, offered to cast out evil spirits. Many came forward, among them a young Franciscan monk.

“In a chapel down the road, the head of the Zorastrian church in Bombay prayed before a fire that symbolized his God.
“Next door, six turbanned Sikhs–all Italian converts–sat chanting their prayers in the lotus position to gramophone music.
“At an old Roman temple, shoeless Moslems sat on prayer mats.
“The 14th Dalai Lama, exiled god-king of Tibet, headed the strong Buddhist contingent, mumbling sutras amid tinkling bells at the Basilica of St.
Peter.

“In the gardens outside, a Shinto sect called Tenrikyo, in black kimonos, swayed to temple music.
“African animists, their togas the envy of any designer, invoked the spirits of trees and plants to come to the aid of peace

TIME MAGAZINE 1986
time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,962783-1,00.html

“The throng included rabbis wearing yarmulkes and Sikhs in turbans, Muslims praying on thick carpets and a Zoroastrian kindling a fire. In all, the 160 religious representatives came from a dozen faiths throughout the world. The scene was extraordinary in its visual diversity, the purple robe of Robert Runcie, the Archbishop of Canterbury, contrasting with the black of Greek Orthodox Archbishop Methodios. Buddhism’s Dalai Lama, traditionally regarded as a living deity, was in attendance, swathed in purple and yellow… Despite that ideal, the Pope’s audience was aware that Assisi symbolically went well beyond the ceremonial friendship accorded other faiths by any previous Pontiff. The assemblage included not only monotheists but believers in creeds once labeled “heathen” and “pagan” by a church that for centuries had preached unambiguously that there was no salvation outside its walls. The astonishing variety of the invited group also raised suspicions among some Christians that Assisi represented a heretical step toward syncretism, the amalgamation of various conflicting religions. For this reason, U.S. Fundamentalist Gadfly Carl McIntire branded the meeting the “greatest single abomination in church history,”

 

[marymol]

This being Advent Season and considering those pagan Kings who came to adore our Lord and gave Him gifts which seemingly were accepted mercifully by our Lord ( well , His parents), we can we not see Assisi and this issue , for the wisdom and courage of Pope John Paul11 , in allowing those of other faith to pray (which would have been basic courtesy ) yet separatly - thus demonstrating prudence and a clear and easy lesson to esp. many young people , about the uniqueness of our Truth .

Pope John Paul 11 seemingly had a very special mission, to tend The Church , to the times of great mercy , as the only healing balm , for a world that was recovering from much hatred and violence , from the false pride in the hearts of millions who were indoctrinated in same .

’ Mankind will not have peace until it turn to My Mercy ’ …and our Lord invites The Church ( as His Holy priesthood) to bring all His children to Him - through our prayers .

Our Lord calling the Pope home , on Divine Mercy Sunday , has been seen by many as how pleasing his efforts may have been to our Lord !

Peace !

 

[Caesar]

The Assisi conferances were a travesty. A statue of Buddha was placed over the Tabernacle and the Pope sat as en equal among the pagans!

 

[Arnobius]

Here is a Baptist version of the events
wayoflife.org/fbns/popesstrange.htm

You will forgive me I hope, if I say I find the accounts of TIME and a Baptist site to be just as biased as a schismatic site, interpreting the incidents in light of their own agendas.

For myself, I find the descriptions of Cardinal Arinze, including his quite candid admissions of the mistakes that were made much more convincing.

Try reading
*The Church in Dialogue: Walking With Other Believers *

and

God’s Invisible Hand

by the Cardinal.

 

[Caesar]

Faithful Catholics have the duty to reject false religions. Souls are at stake here!

 

[stmaria]

QUOTE=Arnobius;3085963]You will forgive me I hope, if I say I find the accounts of TIME and a Baptist site to be just as biased as a schismatic site, interpreting the incidents in light of their own agendas

.

How is Time biased? They were simply reporting the event as were the Baptists. Of course the event at Assisi happened again in 2002 where pagan religions were given their own room in which they could pray to the devil for peace.

Vatican website vatican.net/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_20020124_assisi-giornata_en.html#II.*****Prayer%20in%20different%20places

"The representatives of the other religions, together with their delegations, upon leaving the piazza, are accompanied by the staff of the corresponding Pontifical Council and the Friars of the Convent to the places set aside for them.

1.    Places set aside for prayer

•     Lower Basilica:         Christians

•     Sacred Convent:

· Room A Islam
· Room B Buddhism
· Room C Sikhism
· Room D African Traditional Religions
· Room E Hinduism
· Room F Tenrikyo
· Room G Shintoism
· Room H Judaism
· Room I Zoroastrianism, Janinism and Confucianism

In the Sacred Convent all of the crucifixes were either taken down or covered up so as not to offend anyone. The Moslems were given a room that faced east so they could pray toward Mecca, the Zoroastrians were given a room with a fireplace so they could burn woodchips to their many gods and the African Voodoo religions were allowed to recite their prayers to the devil.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

I’m asking the OP to provide me proof of his rather biased claims from objective sites that are not schismatic in nature. I thought that was rather obvious from context.

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to locate an article I read after the event, from someone who witnessed it first hand. He provided a lot of additional details I didn’t mention.

However, I did find the following that confirms what I said.

Catholic News Service story of the week. Assisi: Peace takes place in inner heart

By Cindy Wooden

ASSISI, Italy (CNS) – Saying religious leaders wanted to do their part to fend off “the dark clouds of terrorism, hatred (and) armed conflict,” Pope John Paul II led an inter-religious pilgrimage to Assisi, birthplace of St. Francis. …

“Violence never again,” the pope said at the end of the afternoon meeting. “War never again. Terrorism never again,” he said.

“In the name of God, may every religion bring upon the earth justice and peace, forgiveness and life, love,” the 81-year-old pope said before his guests set lighted glass and terracotta oil lamps on a large table as a sign of hope.

During the brief afternoon service, 10 religious leaders, reading in 10 different languages, recited 10 commitments they all promised to fulfil to help bring peace to the world. …

Pope John Paul and the other leaders who spoke at the morning session in Assisi repeatedly underlined the need for justice and the respect of human rights in building peace. “It cannot be forgotten that situations of oppression and exclusion are often at the source of violence and terrorism,” he said. …

Chief Amadou Gasseto, who described himself as the high priest of followers of Avelekete Voodoo in Benin, echoed the [Orthodox] patriarch’s point about personal behaviour and its decisive role in creating peace or conflict. “We must begin by achieving mastery over ourselves so as not to speak words which lead to feelings of opposition, exclusion or violence,” he said.

After sharing the “testimonies for peace,” Pope John Paul and Bartholomew led the Christians from 17 Orthodox churches and 14 Anglican and Protestant communities into the lower basilica for an ecumenical prayer service.

Franciscan friars escorted members of the 11 other religions into their huge convent complex where, in separate places around the cloistered courtyard, each faith held its own prayer service: the Zoroastrians lighting a fire in the courtyard; the Muslims kneeling on rugs in the annex to the Friar Elijah Chapel, built in 1230.

The Franciscans had removed crucifixes and everything else from the vaulted rooms, except for a large wood sculpture of the Nativity firmly attached to the wall of the room used by the Buddhists.

Hundreds of people, mainly [older] Italian religious [who grew up in the 60’s] and lay people [with “intrinsically disordered tendencies”], filled the back of the tent to pray [and hold up two fingers for peace] with the leaders. Some waved huge rainbow-coloured banners that read, “Peace!” and chanted in Italian, “John Paul!” [The Magnificent]

It’s too bad John Paul II did not proclaim Christ the King as the anwer to “world peace”, as did Pope Pius XI? At assisi, Christ the King was removed to make room for the “representatives” of assorted false religions.

Here’s an article by an Orthodox group: orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/assisi_letter.aspx

 

[stmaria]

Getting back to false ecumenism. Bishop Sheen was speaking of the World Council of Churches. As of today the Catholic Church is not a member but does have theologians that are.
The World Council of Church claims that some of its members have Apostolic Succession.
If Cardinal Kasper had his way I am sure the Church would belong.
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCCUR40Y.HTM

Unitatis Redintegratio: A New Interpretation After 40 Years
Cardinal Walter KasperPresident of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity

“….The Decree on Ecumenism did not appear out of thin air. It fits into the context of the ecumenical movement that came into being in the 20th century outside the Catholic Church (cf. Unitatis Redintegratio, n. 4), and marked a decisive turning point with the creation of the* “World Council of Churches**” in 1948.
This movement was long regarded with suspicion by the Catholic Church. But its acceptance by the Second Vatican Council is rooted in the Catholic theology of the 19th century….On the other hand, the separate Communities have sometimes developed certain aspects of the revealed truth better, so that in the situation of division, the Catholic Church cannot fully and concretely develop her own catholicit.y The Church therefore* needs purification and renewal **and must ceaselessly take the way of penance …This self-critical and penitential vision is the basis of the progress of the ecumenical movement (cf. Unitatis Redintegratio, nn. 5-12). It includes conversion and renewal, without which there can be no ecumenism or dialogue, because ecumenism, rather than an exchange of ideas, is an exchange of gifts… the goal of ecumenism cannot be conceived of **as a mere return of the others to the heart of the Catholic Church. The goal of full unity [can] be reached only through the action of the Spirit of God and the conversion of all **to the one Head of the Church, Jesus Christ. To the extent that we are united to Christ, we will all be united to one another as well, and will actuate in all its fullness the catholicity proper to the Church. This goal has been defined theologically by the Council as unity-communio.”

So concersion according to Kasper is not a return to the Catholic Church but a mere belief in Christ

Cardinal Walter Kasper:
“… today we no longer understand ecumenism in the sense of a return, by which the others would ‘be converted’ and return to being Catholics. This was expressly abandoned by Vatican II.”

 

[stmaria]

What is the World Council of Churches
wcc-coe.org/wcc/who/index-e.html

Though the Catholic Church is not an official member, the WCC claims that some of its members have Apostolic Succession

Baptism, Eucharist and Ministry oikoumene.org/en/resources/documents/wcc-commissions/faith-and-order-commission/i-unity-the-church-and-its-mission/baptism-eucharist-and-ministry-faith-and-order-paper-no-111-the-lima-text/baptism-eucharist-and-ministry.html#c10470
.
"Those who know how widely the churches have differed in doctrine and practice on baptism, eucharist and ministry, will appreciate the importance of the large measure of agreement registered here. Virtually all the confessional traditions are included in the Commission’s membership. That theologians of such widely different traditions should be able to speak so harmoniously about baptism, eucharist and ministry is unprecedented in the modern ecumenical movement.** Particularly noteworthy is the fact that the Commission also includes among its full members theologians of the Roman Catholic **and other churches which do not belong to the World Council of Churches itself.

D. The Ministry of Men and Women in the Church
18. Where Christ is present, human barriers are being broken. The Church is called to convey to the world the image of a new humanity. …The Church must discover the ministry which can be provided by women as well as that which can be provided by men…… An increasing number of churches have decided that there is **no biblical or theological reason against **ordaining women, and many of them have subsequently proceeded to do so. Yet many churches hold that the tradition of the Church in this regard must not be changed

B. Succession of the Apostolic Ministry
35…The primary manifestation of apostolic succession is to be found in the apostolic tradition of the Church as a whole. The succession is an expression of the permanence and, therefore, of the continuity of Christ’s own mission in which the Church participates. Within the Church the ordained ministry has a particular task of preserving and actualizing the apostolic faith. The orderly transmission of the ordained ministry is therefore a powerful expression of the continuity of the Church throughout history; it also underlines the calling of the ordained minister as guardian of the faith
55…The mutual recognition of churches and their ministries implies decision by the appropriate authorities and a liturgical act from which point unity would be publicly manifest. Several forms of such public act have been proposed: mutual laying on of hands, eucharistic concelebration, solemn worship without a particular rite of recognition, the reading of a text of union during the course of a celebration. No one liturgical form would be absolutely required, but in any case it would be necessary to proclaim the accomplishment of mutual recognition publicly. The common celebration of the eucharist would certainly be the place for such an act.

 

[jj2011]

What would you say if your priest invited memers of assorted false religions to your Church, and allowed each to stand at the altar and make a prayer to their false god or gods?

Fortunately no priests where I attend Mass would do anything that foolish and imbecilic, so on those grounds I’ll refrain from answering the question more directly.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Fortunately no priests where I attend Mass would do anything that foolish and imbecilic, so on those grounds I’ll refrain from answering the question more directly.

I’m glad to hear that, but what I described was John Paul II’s prayer meeting at Assisi. In other words, what you described as “foolish and imbecilic” is precisely what John Paul II did at Assisi.

 

[Arnobius]

I’m glad to hear that, but what I described was John Paul II’s prayer meeting at Assisi. In other words, what you described as “foolish and imbecilic” is precisely what John Paul II did at Assisi.

Based on the actual accounts, “precisely” is not the proper term, unless the meaning of the word has been changed to mean “not at all”

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1986/october/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19861027_prayer-peace-assisi-final_en.html

Note that an actual perusal of the statement indicates that the purpose of Assisi 1986 was rather different from the common misrepresentation of it.