Bishop Stephen Gardiner list 99 latin vulgate words used in King James Bible

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I read in a book, The King James Bible Word Book under the word Concupiscence, that a Bishop Gardiner listed 99 latin vulgate words that were used in King James Bible. Does anyone know what that list of words was?
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
I read in a book, The King James Bible Word Book under the word Concupiscence, that a Bishop Gardiner listed 99 latin vulgate words that were used in King James Bible. Does anyone know what that list of words was?
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What’s his first name? The only Bishop Gardiner I know of is Stephen Gardiner, but he died in the mid-sixteenth century, so he would not be commenting on the KJV.

It would not be surprising to find Latin Vulgate words in the KJV since everybody was reading the Vulgate at the time; moreover the translators of the KJV consulted the Douay-Rheims translation when they did their work.

Subsequently, when Challoner revised the D-R at the end of the 18th Century, he borrowed heavily from the KJV in return.

I hope someone responds who has more to say than I have!
 
mercygate said:
What’s his first name? The only Bishop Gardiner I know of is Stephen Gardiner, but he died in the mid-sixteenth century, so he would not be commenting on the KJV.

It would not be surprising to find Latin Vulgate words in the KJV since everybody was reading the Vulgate at the time; moreover the translators of the KJV consulted the Douay-Rheims translation when they did their work.

Subsequently, when Challoner revised the D-R at the end of the 18th Century, he borrowed heavily from the KJV in return.

I hope someone responds who has more to say than I have!
Click to expand...

Could the reference be to the historian James Gairdner ? - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gairdner​

He wrote a fair amount about the English Bible.
 
quote from the book,
The Latin concupiscentia was one of a list of 99 Latin words and phrases from the Vulgate that Bishop Gardiner presented to the Convocation of 1542, insisting that, “for the sake of their germane and native meaning and for the majesty of the matter in them contained,” these words should be retained in any translation of Scriptures or be rendered into English with the least possible change.
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the author of the book goes on to compare how the word consupiscence is used in the King James, demonstrating that the King James followed this list, in this case.

“The bishop of Winchester, Stephen Gardiner, presented a list giving 99 different places where either the Latin wording should be directly inserted into the …”

books.google.com/books?id=BGhHm155A5AC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=vulgate+bishop+gardiner+convocation+1542+list+latin+words&source=web&ots=_J367B7UsP&sig=WtXEH1aJVtRDLfvN8cwOANbVEPY

google.com/search?q=99++Vulgate++Bishop+Gardiner++Convocation++1542+list+latin+words&hl=en&start=10&sa=N

Is that list of 99 places avilable anywhere that anyone knows of?
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
quote from the book,

the author of the book goes on to compare how the word consupiscence is used in the King James, demonstrating that the King James followed this list, in this case.

“The bishop of Winchester, Stephen Gardiner, presented a list giving 99 different places where either the Latin wording should be directly inserted into the …”

books.google.com/books?id=BGhHm155A5AC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=vulgate+bishop+gardiner+convocation+1542+list+latin+words&source=web&ots=_J367B7UsP&sig=WtXEH1aJVtRDLfvN8cwOANbVEPY

google.com/search?q=99++Vulgate++Bishop+Gardiner++Convocation++1542+list+latin+words&hl=en&start=10&sa=N

Is that list of 99 places avilable anywhere that anyone knows of?
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For a search like this I would consult my reference librarian. Even in my dinky little town, those librarians are pretty sharp and have access to catalogues in scholarly libraries. The Library of Congress is available to everyone in the US, and they can get things from there as well.

My librarians alternatively applaud and cringe when they see me coming because they know I am always looking for something interesting and difficult to get!
 
The list starts towards the bottoms of this page. I keep counting 101 words, I think I’m counting some of the phrases as separate terms.
 
TheOneTrueFred said:
The list starts towards the bottoms of this page. I keep counting 101 words, I think I’m counting some of the phrases as separate terms.
Click to expand...
True, THAT is phenomenal!

I never noticed the link in your signature before; I’ll be showing up at your place shortly!
 
mercygate said:
I never noticed the link in your signature before; I’ll be showing up at your place shortly!
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Enjoy 😉

It’s still pretty rough around the edges, I’m getting dreamweaver soon so I can format everything for readability. The thing I’m most looking forward to getting up is the Confraternity NT, but the transcription is going slooowly. This list is probably going up there shortly as well 😃
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
quote from the book,

the author of the book goes on to compare how the word consupiscence is used in the King James, demonstrating that the King James followed this list, in this case.

“The bishop of Winchester, Stephen Gardiner, presented a list giving 99 different places where either the Latin wording should be directly inserted into the …”

books.google.com/books?id=BGhHm155A5AC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=vulgate+bishop+gardiner+convocation+1542+list+latin+words&source=web&ots=_J367B7UsP&sig=WtXEH1aJVtRDLfvN8cwOANbVEPY

google.com/search?q=99++Vulgate++Bishop+Gardiner++Convocation++1542+list+latin+words&hl=en&start=10&sa=N

Is that list of 99 places avilable anywhere that anyone knows of?
Click to expand...

That clarifies things very nicely 😃 - thanks.​

 
no problem, I often feel like tim taylor of theology.

where is the list going up? and wil it be printable?

It would be interresting to see how king james translation followed that list because it would demonstrate Latin influnce – would it also demonstrate Jerome’s influnce on the King James version?
 
My original intention was to put this list up on my website in a table with all sorts of info, but this thread’s going to stagnate long before I can get everything I want on it. Until then, here’s the typed up list.

The list comes out to 101 terms. I don’t know if the 99 figure was from a faulty source or because some of these seem to be different forms of the same word. A fair chunk of them are practically English anyway.

adorare
ancilla
apocalypsis
apostolatus
apostolus
baptizare
benedictio
ceremonia
charitas
Christus
cisera
commilito
communio
complacui
concupiscentia
confessio
confiteor tibi Pater
conflictationes
conscientia
contentio
contritus
conversari
didragma
dignus
dilectus
distribueretur orbis
dominationes
Dominus
Ecclesia
egenus
ejicere
elementa
episcopus
gentilis
gloria
gratia
hospitalitas
hostia
humilis
humilitas
idiota
idolatria
idolum
imitator
impositio
increpare
inculpatus
inenarrabilis
infidelis
innumerabilis
justificare
justitia
lites
magnifico
manuum
martyr
merces
misericordia
mysteriü
mysterium
olacausta
opera
oriens
paganus
panis proepositionis
parabola
pascha
peccator
peccatum
perseverare
pietas
poenitentia
pontifex
potestates
presbyter
profiteor
prudenter
prudentia
religio
sacramentum
sacrificium
sanctus
sandalium
sapientia
satisfactio
scientia
senior
servus
simplex
simulachrum
societas
spiritus
Spiritus Sanctus
stater
subditus
synagoga
tetrarcha
throni
tyrannus
virtutes
zizania
 
Very interesting. Shows you how “easy” educated people were with Latin at the time. I am sure that Gardiner, contrary to the accusation made against him that he was attempting to conceal the meaning of Scripture from the common people, really felt that these words carried significance that would be lost by translation.

Educated people at the time prett much THOUGHT in Latin.
 
Does anyone know if there is a latan concordance to the NT online? It would be interresting to see where those words are used.

This method will take a little work,
google.com/search?hl=en&q=adorare+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedbible.com%2Fvulgate%2F

type in the following in google,
“adorare site:HTML Bible Index - Latin Vulgate”

open each page and edit, find target word to get the reference.

speedbible.com/vulgate/index.htm

Anyone who knows of a concordance that lists the words and references would be better.
 
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