Bishop troubles and heresy?

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Monicathree

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In my diocese, we have been having some problems. Without getting too specific, the bishop seems to be a little weak on orthodoxy. Just one example, one of his aides is the one who started the gay ministry. Not the group courage or NARTH ( which are people who are living celibately and turning from homosexual lives), but a full on rainbow sign advertising the group’sministry who think they are just fine. It is displayed in our own cathedral. There is a very liberal group that he and they seem to all be close. I know they are friends. There are very few true Holy Orthodox priests here.

My question is where can we go to report Bishops that perpetuate and allow heresy, obviously not to him. Do we contact Rome, and how? Liberalism is permeating the faith here in the U.S. and I just can’t sit by and complain and not take action. We have priests saying there is no purgatoryfrom the altar. Liturgical dance in the church, yet no tabernacle present. Good holy priests being overexhausted and their bodies literally giving out on them, while they fight against these heresies. Some of the shephards are not leading the flock in the right direction. I could go on and on. I hope I have gotten my point across. I am just real emotional now. These good priests are fighting for the faith, and you know they shouldn’t have to do it alone. I want to be right behind them. If Rome came here and saw what was going on. YIkes!!

Please any advice…I for sure know that it starts with prayer, but what after that??? It is not right!!!

peace
 
Thank you so much we will be reading and following up… BTW at Mass today, at the cathedral, the poster for the Gay/Lesbian ministry had a rainbow colored cross on top…I just don’t understand what is going on …

But, I know we must do things with charity and prudence and take the steps this group explains…

God Bless!!!
 
I’m not sure how you equate a ministry to a specific group of sinners to orthodoxy. Are you suggesting that we not allow homosexuals to become Catholics, or being Catholic that we should not provide ministry tailored to their spiritual needs?
You don’t seem to provide enough background for honest, intelligent commentary.
Please be more specific.
Thanks.
In the Father’s love,
Matthew

PS: I’m just another struggling sinner like everyone else.
 
Monicathree said:
Thank you so much we will be reading and following up… BTW at Mass today, at the cathedral, the poster for the Gay/Lesbian ministry had a rainbow colored cross on top…I just don’t understand what is going on …

But, I know we must do things with charity and prudence and take the steps this group explains…

God Bless!!!
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Do you know what the ministy actually is? Or is it just that you have issues with the choice of the rainbow colors?

As drafdog states, a ministry to a specific group does not mean that it is not orthodox.
 
drafdog said:
I’m not sure how you equate a ministry to a specific group of sinners to orthodoxy. Are you suggesting that we not allow homosexuals to become Catholics, or being Catholic that we should not provide ministry tailored to their spiritual needs?
You don’t seem to provide enough background for honest, intelligent commentary.
Please be more specific.
Thanks.
In the Father’s love,
Matthew

PS: I’m just another struggling sinner like everyone else.
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Drafdog,

I guess I didn’t read Monicathree’s post the same way you did. I didn’t see anyplace where she said or implied that the Church should not minister to homosexuals or allow them to be members of the Church.

What she did express is a concern that a parish ministry has been created that is accepting of the homosexual lifestyle. If this is true wouldn’t you agree that it is a problem?

Obviously more information about the ministry’s purpose and objectives is needed to know for sure but…

Liturgcal dance?

No tabernacle?

No purgatory?

There are plenty of liberal groups that call themselves Catholic but are in conflict with Catholic doctrine over such things as abortion, stem cell research, female priests, invetro fertilization, etc. and work hard to introduce their thinking into local parish ministries. I think Monicathree is right to be on guard.

Iowa Mike
 
Iowa_Mike said:
Drafdog,

I guess I didn’t read Monicathree’s post the same way you did. I didn’t see anyplace where she said or implied that the Church should not minister to homosexuals or allow them to be members of the Church.

What she did express is a concern that a parish ministry has been created that is accepting of the homosexual lifestyle. If this is true wouldn’t you agree that it is a problem?
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Iowa Mike,
Go back and read the OP.

I do not see in it any concern expressed that this ministry is “accepting of the homosexual lifestyle”.

If it is then there is cause for concern but Monicathree does not say that it is. Her concern seems to stem from the use of the rainbow.

As for the rest of it, all we have is Monicathree’s word on what is going on. We have other information except for what she has chosen to give us.

I for one side with the Church and the bishop until I am given proof of such accusations.
 
Monicathree said:
In my diocese, … Without getting too specific, the bishop seems to be a little weak on orthodoxy… the gay ministry. Not the group courage or NARTH ( which are people who are living celibately and turning from homosexual lives), but a full on rainbow sign advertising the group’sministry who think they are just fine. It is displayed in our own cathedral… We have priests saying there is no purgatoryfrom the altar. Liturgical dance in the church, yet no tabernacle present. …
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😦 Goodness! Sounds like you are in Memphis. It is too bad we cannot be guaranteed loyal bishops 😦
 
Monicathree said:
Not the group courage or NARTH ( which are people who are living celibately and turning from homosexual lives), but a full on rainbow sign advertising the group’sministry who think they are just fine.
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ByzCath,

I believe my original reading was correct. Her description of the poster is anecdotal to her concerns:

“who think they are just fine”

Liturgical dance?

No tabernacle?

No Purgatory?

Hmmmmmm, makes me wonder. I’d like to see the purpose and objectives of the ministry? I’ve never been to a Catholic Church that did not have a tabernacle so where might it be?..is there an adjoining Eucharistic Adoration Chapel where ii is kept? What sort of liturgical dance elevates the mass verses detracts from it? If not purgatory, what?

Iowa Mike
 
A good friend emailed this link to me.

renewamerica.us/columns/kralis/070104

I hope I am not breaking any rules by posting it because specific names and locations are given. If I am, I apologize in advance. It is an opinion piece but it does explain what I believe is the general type of thing the original poster was commenting on. I thought it might help clarify the issue.

Michelle
 
There’s an old saying (and good rule of thumb) in the Church that goes like this:

"Speak so as to be understood . . . "

With that saying in mind, by attaching the rainbow symbol to this diocesan program they’ve done just that - confused the faithful - considering that the rainbow symbol is associated with the most militant of secular gay rights groups - who are NOT in union with the Catholic faith.

Not to say the diocese didn’t have the best of intentions, this was just a poor choice of symbols to promote a worthy ministry. Someone should hook them up with COURAGE.
 
Michelle2006 said:
A good friend emailed this link to me.

renewamerica.us/columns/kralis/070104

I hope I am not breaking any rules by posting it because specific names and locations are given. If I am, I apologize in advance. It is an opinion piece but it does explain what I believe is the general type of thing the original poster was commenting on. I thought it might help clarify the issue.

Michelle
Click to expand...
What you posted is public information, presents no problem and…is most excellent. I think it puts Monicathree’s concerns in perspective.

Iowa Mike
 
ByzCath said:
Iowa Mike,
Go back and read the OP.

I do not see in it any concern expressed that this ministry is “accepting of the homosexual lifestyle”.

If it is then there is cause for concern but Monicathree does not say that it is. Her concern seems to stem from the use of the rainbow.

As for the rest of it, all we have is Monicathree’s word on what is going on. We have other information except for what she has chosen to give us.

I for one side with the Church and the bishop until I am given proof of such accusations.
Click to expand...
well she is asking an honest question. she is not asking us to file formal charges she is asking for advise. as for the rainbow we all know about the rainbow sash movement. her concern is not some vauge argument about color scheme. It is a clear objection that this movement is tied to the rainbow sash movement. In which case it could be sticky. she should definately check into that.
 
drafdog, It is my understanding that the Rainbow movement is one of Gays and Lesbians who are in an active homosexual lifestyle. Of course all are called to the Church, but there has to be a recognition and repentance for sin FOR ALL. In this case, the Rainbow Fish brings about confusion; such as one could come to the conclusion that the homosexual lifestyle is OK. There is a difference. Courage is a ministry for those with SSA but they are trying to live out what the Church teaches. Given all the media coverage from that Diocese, I don’t think we could be charged with, “rash judgements” about this.
 
Just as a point, since some people are a bit loose with words; if someone in the diocese is supporting a ministry to homosexuals that is not in compliance with Church teaching, that is not necessarily heresy. Heresy is a denial of a defined doctrine; this is an issue of vagueness (I am trying to be charitible) on morality.

There is a difference.
 
down_under said:
well she is asking an honest question. she is not asking us to file formal charges she is asking for advise. as for the rainbow we all know about the rainbow sash movement. her concern is not some vauge argument about color scheme. It is a clear objection that this movement is tied to the rainbow sash movement. In which case it could be sticky. she should definately check into that.
Click to expand...
As Iowa Mike said, the questions on liturgical dance, no tabernacle, no Purgatory are all vaild questions but I am sorry I do not see any link between using the colors of the rainbow and a connection with the rainbow sash movement.

I believe that you have read into the post.
 
Wow, thank you all for your replies.
The Gay ministry is just one of the problems going on. I guess I was so emotional, I did not succintly express myself. Pardon…

I am actually researching more about the ministry, but what I have learned so far, is that they accept this lifestyle. This is a link from their own
website…gaycatholicforum.org/html/resources.html

As far as the rainbow deal…that is the symbol for “Gay Pride” is it not. Please correct me if I am wrong.

peace
 
I left out that it is actually a cross with rainbow colors on the top of their poster…
 
We must all be careful not to let tolerance be so so corosive that it makes itself an enemy to holiness.

God Bless
 
Listed here are Catholic faith communities that have been recommended as welcoming to Gay/Lesbian people. (**You may want to avoid going in drag – at least for the first visit – since some communities may not be as welcoming as others!) ** gaycatholicforum.org/html/resources.html
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This is from the website Monicathree linked. How is this remotely Catholic?

ByzCatholic,
Sorry, but you are being (intentionally?) obtuse. There is no need to even look for ways to read into this. The “rainbow” has always been a symbol of the homosexual movement. A Catholic Church ministry should not be adopting symbols that have historically been used by homosexuals to advance and normalize their lifestyle. If you don’t see how obvious this is, I suggest another look at the Cathechism and some of the Bishops Documents. In fact, even using the term “gay” in refernce to a Catholic ministry is not recommended.

Monicathree, I strongly encourage you to follow the “chain of command” in objecting to all the things you cited. I have had to do the same with Pastors and our Archbishop. And if necessary, I am fully prepared to go to the next level. I am following the protocol as it is laid out by the Church and you should as well. We as Catholics are entitled to and have a right to the full teaching of the Church. Our God is not a God of confusion.
 
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