P
Publisher
Guest
Christians have been killing other Christians longer than Muslims have been killing Muslims…and all in the name of God.
- Status
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
How so? Christians were being martyred in Rome at the time of Mohammeds birth in 570 AD. Christians today are being martyred in Iraq.
Please cite your source on which wars Christians fought each other in the name of God?
N
nonsumd
Guest
And your point is?
Christianity has been around 600 years longer than Islam has been, so Christians have been doing everything, good or bad, longer than Muslims have.
Still, if one wants to pursue the comparison… Civil war among Muslims broke out within a generation of the death of Muhammad (the Sunni-Shi’a break).
Christians persecuting other Christians does not begin until after the Roman empire adopts Christianity as its exclusive religion by the end of the 4th c. (four centuries after the death of Jesus). And full-fledged wars between Christian states motivated by doctrinal differences do not occur until the later Middle Ages (and by certain definitions not until the European Wars of Religion of the 16th-17th centuries).
P
Publisher
Guest
Christians still killed Christians…it is not a Muslim or Christian issue…it is a human one…The previous statement about Muslims killing Muslims IMO was stated in such a way one could infer only Muslims fight among themselves…not true…Christians have been killing one another for a very long time…sometimes even when “defending against Muslims”…wholesale slaughter at the hands of Christians no matter who they are, is not a rarity.
There is no excuse for slaughter at the hands of anyone who professes to follow the Eternal One. Suggesting that because Muslims engage in slaughter is aweful, but when Christians do it it is…“understandable” in light of history…I don’t accept that at all.
D
dessert
Guest
I think the peaceful Islam Muslim movement is a counter culture to the Islam violent movement or major culture, of the countries.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
You are changing the subject. Your original quote was in response to Muslims killing each other in the name of God
I did not see “understandable” in Mugen’s post.
Please state your source that Christians were killing one another in the name of God longer than the Muslims have been killing each other in the name of Allah, since Christians were still being martyred at the time of Mohammed.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Oh come on. They built a peaceful mosque on top of the Temple in Jerusalem.
T
txstm
Guest
IMO, calling God 'Allah" is a worthless act of appeasment that will have no effect whatsoever between Christianity and Islam.
Appeasment never works. Never has, never will.
Appeasment never works. Never has, never will.
P
Publisher
Guest
The subject hasn’t changed…people are killing people in the name of religion…it is not a Muslim issue…nor is it a Christian issue…to indicate that it may be more wrong for a Muslim to kill a Muslim than for anyone else, including Christians killing it what I am addressing…let’s not try to pretend the post about Muslims killing Muslims was benign and singling them out…Christians are just as guilty, if not more so…“to whom much is given, much is required.”
“State sources”…LOL, you crack me up with the subtefuge.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
You claimed Christians were killing Christians int the name of God long before Muslims started killing Muslims in the name of Allah. I respectfully disagree, but if I am incorrect, please provide me with a link to the truth.
Also, you changed your original argument of Christians killing each other in the name of God, to people shouldn’t kill each other at all in the name of humanity. The discussion is will calling God Allah change the extreme violence of the radical Muslim movement.
Not all Muslims are violent. There are peaceful ones. But the atrocities committed in today’s world by these terrorists are truly abominable. Pointing fingers and saying “it’s always been done” is no excuse. The violence has to stop now. I happen to believe St. Augustine when he says wars are waged for peace. The Islam wars are not being waged for peace.
Catholics in the middle east call God Allah,but they are not allowed to practice their faith in Iran and Iraq. They are dying for it practicing it today.
Calling God Allah will not stop the persecutions and the violence.
reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0476544220070604?feedType=RSS
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=51915
no lol’s here.
Also, you changed your original argument of Christians killing each other in the name of God, to people shouldn’t kill each other at all in the name of humanity. The discussion is will calling God Allah change the extreme violence of the radical Muslim movement.
Not all Muslims are violent. There are peaceful ones. But the atrocities committed in today’s world by these terrorists are truly abominable. Pointing fingers and saying “it’s always been done” is no excuse. The violence has to stop now. I happen to believe St. Augustine when he says wars are waged for peace. The Islam wars are not being waged for peace.
Catholics in the middle east call God Allah,but they are not allowed to practice their faith in Iran and Iraq. They are dying for it practicing it today.
Calling God Allah will not stop the persecutions and the violence.
reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0476544220070604?feedType=RSS
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=51915
no lol’s here.
T
tundramom
Guest
Let’s not all forget what the Catechism states:
Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, SubSection 3, Heading 4
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
in Christ
Steph
Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, SubSection 3, Heading 4
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
in Christ
Steph
N
nonsumd
Guest
I suggested nothing of the kind. In my posts, I’ve acknowledged that Christians have killed Christians just as Muslims have killed Muslims. And I have made no more excuses for Christians than I have for Muslims.
Moreover, I am not one to blame religion exclusively for the violence done in its name – there are always other, more decisive factors in the outbreak of “religious” violence (political and economic).
It was your attempt to make some point out of the fact that Christians have been killing each other longer than Muslims have been killing each other that led to me to point out the fact that inter-Muslim violence arose near the very beginning of Islamic history whereas inter-Christian violence began only after Christianity had existed for centuries. Make of that difference what you will.
You are right that violence in the name of God is a human issue. It is found not only among Christians and Muslims but also among Jews, Hindus, and even Buddhists (though the latter aren’t even theistic strictly speaking – yet Buddhist monarchs through the ages have slaughtered in the name of upholding the Buddhist Dharma).
What is common to Muslim and Christian experiences is that the joining of religion and the state (which joining has its positive aspects) does very commonly lead to state violence in the name of religion. The joining of state and religion occurs at the very beginning of Islamic history but only in the fourth century of Christianity.
R
roman6320
Guest
I respect your outlook and motivationparsurrey. I respect what the bishop is trying to do, turning the other cheek and all that. Technically, “Allah”, might mean the same as “God” or "Yahwe"and it may be okay to use the term in certain cultures, but in other contexts there may be a problem, as this thread would indicate.
Muslims in the Netherlands would do well to realize that they don’t live in a country with sharia law and hence it is they that must do the accomodating. They must respect the culture they are in and not expect it to bend over backwards for them. Any criticisms they may level at society must be done peacefully and not violently
You are right , publisher, that Christians used to kill each other in God’s name, used to. We don’t any more, by and large. We have painfyully learned our lesson, even as the secular humanists continue to throw it in our face. Islamic civilization, onthe other hand, still has a problem with violence. It is not because violence is intrinsic to Islam, contrary to popular opinion, but because it does not exists as a seperate institution apart from the state, as the Christian churchs can. Hence violence will be used for political reasons with no magesterium to condemn violent acts.
Roma 6320
Muslims in the Netherlands would do well to realize that they don’t live in a country with sharia law and hence it is they that must do the accomodating. They must respect the culture they are in and not expect it to bend over backwards for them. Any criticisms they may level at society must be done peacefully and not violently
You are right , publisher, that Christians used to kill each other in God’s name, used to. We don’t any more, by and large. We have painfyully learned our lesson, even as the secular humanists continue to throw it in our face. Islamic civilization, onthe other hand, still has a problem with violence. It is not because violence is intrinsic to Islam, contrary to popular opinion, but because it does not exists as a seperate institution apart from the state, as the Christian churchs can. Hence violence will be used for political reasons with no magesterium to condemn violent acts.
Roma 6320
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I agree with the most of the contents of your post, which is an unbiased one, and makes analysis of the religious history truthfully. The state and religions must be separate, where they are not the opportunist/politicians enter in to benefit the most.
The religionists never fight, they are humble and meek persons, and have nothing to do with such things, it interests them not.
Thanks
I agree with the most of the contents of your post, which is an unbiased one, and makes analysis of the religious history truthfully. The state and religions must be separate, where they are not the opportunist/politicians enter in to benefit the most.
The religionists never fight, they are humble and meek persons, and have nothing to do with such things, it interests them not.
Thanks
C
colliric
Guest
yes, but this doesn’t mean that we are to change the english name for him into the Arabic name for him. If anything we should understand that “God is Allah” and “Allah is God”, nothing more needs be done.
D
Darrel
Guest
I think that if all Christians started refering to God as allah it would incite the muslim world to anger. The bishop seems to have good intentions but I seriously doubt the Pope would advise this.
I wonder if the bishop will start the mass by saying … in the name of allah and allahs son and allas holy spirity. Does he say the body of allah when people recieve the Eucharist? If Jesus called God the father thats what the Church should be teaching us to do. We may as well call him Zeus by this logic.
-D
I wonder if the bishop will start the mass by saying … in the name of allah and allahs son and allas holy spirity. Does he say the body of allah when people recieve the Eucharist? If Jesus called God the father thats what the Church should be teaching us to do. We may as well call him Zeus by this logic.
-D
D
Darrel
Guest
Do you think Muhammed would support this idea if he were posting in the forum right now?
-D
C
colliric
Guest
agreed. the only thing needs be done has already been done… recognize them as trying to worship the same creator God. We have already done that…
M
Montalban
Guest
You got something against metric?oh come on, that’s not nice…
D
dessert
Guest
But they are not, for example like Mormons because they are not a subculture of christianity, they are a major culture of their own.
- Status