Bishop urges Christians to call God 'Allah'

[dessert]

There is some good reading in the wiki and I am not trying to change anyones religion especially not my own but I like facts as far as we can get the truth of course others wrote this stuff and for others who do want it go
to
wikipedia.org/wiki/similarities_between_the_bible_and_the_Qur’an
also there are footnotes to get to the differences and comparing and contrasting Judaism and Christianity and
Islam and Judaism
Keep you busy reading all day I claim to know not much
I’m actually learning more about Judaism
There is not a Catholic perspective as such but that is why a quote the CCC so much as I have only been reading that for a year and of course the source for it is undeniablly authentic and infallible, I was surprised if I remember that they had never heard of the CCC and actually there are many many people that don’t know what our CCC says.
Keep this in mind when reading about christiandoesn’t mean it is Catholic I’m probably telling this to myself as much as anyone and I hate downloading and am tire of spending money on books. I do have two I want to get yet next week.
Dessert

 

[dessert]

Sorry, Dessert.

If there’d been a “being ironic” face, I’d have added that, but that would kind of defeat the point of being ironic, wouldn’t it?

I thought the might come off as condescending, plus it looks like someone thinking about something other than what the person they’re talking to is talking about.

I don’t like the . It reminds me that I’ve been procrastinating about going to the dentist for a check-up.

Cheers!

that smile is the funniest face and when I first used it I thought it mean yeah right on and then had others ask me why was I being mean
took me a while because all it say is big grin
I don’t like it when I can only use 8 and the previous poster has allready use 6 so I’m going back and deleting their faces and trying to get in my own.
Now posters aren’t even using the square boxes for quotes and it is confusing some change colors for replies but some don’t I avoid even reading those posts. can’t tell who is talking to who or whom?
Fancy does as fancy wants.

 

[Paul_Abela]

You will be pleased to know that Malta, which is one of the most Catholic countires in the world uses Allah as its word for God.

The Maltese , although being European, have a semetic language and most of its religious words have arabic derivations

Paul

 

[Sixtus]

Arabic Christians have been using the name “Allah” way before Islam was born. (They adopted this name from Arab pagans, who worshipped the moon god, in an attempt to assimilate with them.)

Despite the Lebanese Christians who always use the name “Allah”, I don’t think it hast helped them with their relations with Muslims. Lebanon is in all sorts of trouble. :twocents:

But here’s an idea; Why don’t Islamic countries just allow Christians to worship within Islamic states?
:newidea:

We in UK have to practise tolerance of non-Christian religions and in public life…under the pain of dismissal for non-compliance. Why don’t Muslim State’s appy the same?

 

[James_the_Least]

The names of God the Father are important, but the name of Jesus (pronounced Y’shua in Hebrew) is more important in that, as Scripture has it, “there is no other name in heaven or on the earth or under the earth by which we are to be saved.”

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Hi Charlie Zeaiter,
You have made a good point. The Egyptian Copts and the Assyrian Christians also use the word Allah to mean their god but it never stopped the Muslims oppressing them for 14 centuries.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

This bishop is under some kind of delusion, if I were the Pope I’d have him questioned by the Inquisition.

At least he didn’t pray to allah - unlike [The Mufti of Washington (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8846).​

• The Cardinal at the conclusion of his prayer again called for Allah’s intercession: “May Allah…guide and protect you, your family and your beloved country…In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate God, we pray. Amen.”
  The Christ-hating nonsense spewed out by Catholic “bishops” these days is making life in the Church into a foretaste of Hell

Not to mention the effect these events have on the more severely un-papal Protestants - it only strengthens their belief that the CC is an apostate & Christ-denying sham: & who can blame them, when bishops behave in this way ?

I really hate being Catholic sometimes

 

[Excelency]

I won’t even consider changing “God” to “Allah”.

I will, however, consider changing from 5.56mm ammunition to 7.62mm.

Dude

The Bishop is dead wrong. Christianity is collapsing in Holland. This is an attempt to appease the Muslims, but he is giving in to fear. Has the religion that calls God Allah ceased to deny Christs divinity? No, then why do anything to help them? They will help us into our graves and they will bury our Church and Bible with us.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Dude

The Bishop is dead wrong. Christianity is collapsing in Holland. This is an attempt to appease the Muslims, but he is giving in to fear. Has the religion that calls God Allah ceased to deny Christs divinity? No, then why do anything to help them? They will help us into our graves and they will bury our Church and Bible with us.

More apostasy here: westminstercathedral.blogspot.com/2007/07/beautiful-names.html​

• It was a moving and thought-provoking meditation, inviting us to contemplate the one God we worship through different eyes. Some of the names were familiar, others were challenging - but each of them offered a poetic insight into the nature of God. A motif throughout was the sighing of the choir, which to me evoked the Holy Spirit, signalled in the names ‘He who gives life’ and ‘He who brings forth’, as well as ‘He who expands’.
  Maybe we should go the whole way, & praise the 50 Names of Marduk - what’s a little apostasy between friends ?

 

[nonsumd]

Dude

The Bishop is dead wrong. Christianity is collapsing in Holland. This is an attempt to appease the Muslims, but he is giving in to fear. Has the religion that calls God Allah ceased to deny Christs divinity? No, then why do anything to help them? They will help us into our graves and they will bury our Church and Bible with us.

Personally I think it is silly and useless for Dutch-speaking Christians to start calling God by His Arabic name in order to appease Muslims.

It is also silly and useless for Arabic-speaking Christians to stop calling God by His name in Arabic just to appease intolerant Christians who do not speak Arabic.

Indonesian Catholics refer to God as “Allah” as in “Santa Maria, Bunda Allah, doakanlah kami yang berdosa ini sekarang dan waktu kami mati [Holy Mary, **Mother of God, pray for us sinner now and at the hour of our death]” or “Aku percaya akan satu Allah, Bapa yang mahakuasa… dan akan satu Tuhan Yesus Kristus, Putera Allah yang Tunggal. Ia lahir dari Bapa sebelum segala abad. Allah dari Allah. Terang dari terang. Allah benar dari Allah benar one God, the Father almighty… and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only son of God, He was born of the Father before time. God from God, light from light, true God from true God].”

The Catholic Church approved the use of “Allah” to translate “God” in Indonesian (where “Allah” is a loan-word from Arabic). Contrast this with the Catholic Church’s decision to avoid indigenous Chinese terms for the supreme power in the cosmos (“Tian,” meaning “Heaven”), preferring to coin a new phrase “Tianzhu,” “the Lord of Heaven.” The Church clearly deemed Islam to have a concept of a personal god that sufficently resembled Christianity’s, while it deemed that Chinese religions did not have a similar enough concept.

Indonesian Catholics have no problems distinguishing their Trinitarian concept of Allah from the unitarian Muslim concept (it probably annoys some Indonesian Muslims that Indonesian Christians use the word “Allah”).

As for Islam burying the Church in Holland – have a little faith (for Jesus said nothing shall prevail against His Church)!

Have a little faith… and a lot of babies.

 

[paarsurrey]

Dude

The Bishop is dead wrong. Christianity is collapsing in Holland. This is an attempt to appease the Muslims, but he is giving in to fear. Has the religion that calls God Allah ceased to deny Christs divinity? No, then why do anything to help them? They will help us into our graves and they will bury our Church and Bible with us.

Hi

May GodAllahYHWH bless you friend.

Thanks

 

[nonsumd]

More apostasy here: westminstercathedral.blogspot.com/2007/07/beautiful-names.html​

Maybe we should go the whole way, & praise the 50 Names of Marduk - what’s a little apostasy between friends ?

The Westminster Cathedral blog was talking about a John Tavener composition on the “99 Names of Allah”:

Ar-Rahman (الرحمن) The All Beneficent
2 Ar-Rahim (الرحيم) The Most Merciful
3 Al-Malik (الملك) The King, The Sovereign
4 Al-Quddus (القدوس) The Most Holy
5 As-Salaam (السلام) The Peace and Blessing
6 Al-Mu’min (المؤمن) The Guarantor
7 Al-Muhaymin (المهيمن) The Guardian, The Preserver
8 Al-Azeez (العزيز) The Almighty, The Self Sufficient
9 Al-Jabbar (الجبار) The Powerful, The Irresistible
10 Al-Mutakabbir (المتكبر) The Tremendous
11 Al-Khaliq (الخالق) The Creator
12 Al-Bari’ (البارئ) The Rightfull
13 Al-Musawwir (المصور) The Fashioner of Forms
14 Al-Ghaffar (الغفار) The Ever Forgiving
15 Al-Qahhar (القهار) The All Compelling Subduer
16 Al-Wahhab (الوهاب) The Bestower
17 Ar-Razzaq (الرزاق) The Ever Providing
18 Al-Fattah (الفتاح) The Opener, The Victory Giver
19 Al-Aleem (العليم) The All Knowing, The Omniscient 20 Al-Qabid (القابض) The Restrainer, The Straightener 21 Al-Basit (الباسط) The Expander, The Munificent 22 Al-Khafid (الخافض) The Abaser 23 Ar-Rafi'e (الرافع) The Exalter 24 Al-Mu'ezz (المعز) The Giver of Honour 25 Al-Mudhell (المذل) The Giver of Dishonour 26 As-Sami'e (السميع) The All Hearing 27 Al-Baseer (البصير) The All Seeing 28 Al-Hakam (الحكم) The Judge, The Arbitrator 29 Al-Adl (العدل) The Utterly Just
30 Al-Lateef (اللطيف) The Subtly Kind
31 Al-Khabeer (الخبير) The All Aware
32 Al-Halim (الحليم) The Forbearing, The Indulgent
33 Al-Azeem (العظيم) The Magnificent, The Infinite
34 Al-Ghafoor (الغفور) The All Forgiving
35 Ash-Shakur (الشكور) The Grateful
36 Al-Aliyy (العلي) The Sublimely Exalted
37 Al-Kabeer (الكبير) The Great
38 Al-Hafeez (الحفيظ) The Preserver
39 Al-Muqeet (المقيت) The Nourisher
40 Al-Hasib (الحسيب) The Reckoner
41 Al-Jalil (الجليل) The Majestic
42 Al-Kareem (الكريم) The Bountiful, The Generous
43 Ar-Raqeeb (الرقيب) The Watchful
44 Al-Mujeeb (المجيب) The Responsive, The Answerer
45 Al-Wasse’e (الواسع) The Vast, The All Encompassing
46 Al-Hakeem (الحكيم) The Wise
47 Al-Wadood (الودود) The Loving, The Kind One
48 Al-Majeed (المجيد) The All Glorious
49 Al-Ba’ith (الباعث) The Raiser of The Dead
50 Ash-Shaheed (الشهيد) The Witness
51 Al-Haqq (الحق) The Truth, The Real
52 Al-Wakeel (الوكيل) The Trustee, The Dependable
53 Al-Qawaie (القوى) The Strong
54 Al-Mateen (المتين) The Firm, The Steadfast
55 Al-Walaie (الولى) The Protecting Friend, Patron and Helper
56 Al-Hamid (الحميد) The All Praiseworthy
57 Al-Muhsi (المحصى) The Accounter, The Numberer of All
58 Al-Mubdi’ (المبدئ) The Producer, Originator, and Initiator of All
59 Al-Mu’eed (المعيد) The Reinstater Who Brings Back All
60 Al-Muhyee (المحيى) The Giver of Life
61 Al-Mumeet (المميت) The Bringer of Death, The Destroyer
62 Al-Hei (الحي) The Ever Living
63 Al-Qeiyoom (القيوم) The Self Subsisting Sustainer of All
64 Al-Wajid (الواجد) The Perceiver, The Finder, The Unfailing
65 Al-Majid (الماجد) The Illustrious, The Magnificent
66 Al-Wahid (الواحد) The One, The Unique, Manifestation of Unity
(cont).

 

[nonsumd]

(cont.)

67 Al-Ahad (الاحد) The One, the All Inclusive, The Indivisible
68 As-Samad (الصمد) The Self Sufficient, The Impregnable, The Eternally Besought of All, The Everlasting
69 Al-Qadir (القادر) The All Able
70 Al-Muqtadir (المقتدر) The All Determiner, The Dominant
71 Al-Muqaddim (المقدم) The Expediter, He Who Brings Forward
72 Al-Mu’akhir (المؤخر) The Delayer, He Who Puts Far Away
73 Al-Awwal (الأول) The First
74 Al-Akhir (الأخر) The Last
75 Az-Zahir (الظاهر) The Manifest, The All Victorious
76 Al-Batin (الباطن) The Hidden, The All Encompassing
77 Al-Wali (الوالي) The Patron
78 Al-Muta’ali (المتعالي) The Self Exalted
79 Al-Barr (البر) The Most Kind and Righteous
80 At-Tawwab (التواب) The Ever Returning, Ever Relenting
81 Al-Muntaqim (المنتقم) The Avenger
82 Al-'Afuww (العفو) The Pardoner, The Effacer of Sins
83 Ar-Ra’oof (الرؤوف) The Compassionate, The All Pitying
84 Malik-al-Mulk (مالك الملك) The Owner of All Sovereignty
85 Dhu-al-Jalali wa-al-Ikram (ذو الجلال و الإكرام) The Lord of Majesty and Generosity
86 Al-Muqsit (المقسط) The Equitable, The Requiter
87 Al-Jami’e (الجامع) The Gatherer, The Unifier
88 Al-Ghanaie (الغنى) The All Rich, The Independent
89 Al-Mughni (المغنى) The Enricher, The Emancipator
90 Al-Mani’e (المانع) The Withholder, The Shielder, the Defender
91 Ad-Darr (الضار) The Distressor, The Harmer (This attribute can only be found in hadith)
92 An-Nafi’e (النافع) The Propitious, The Benefactor
93 An-Noor (النور) The Light
94 Al-Hadi (الهادي) The Guide
95 Al-Badi (البديع) The Incomparable, The Originator
96 Al-Baqi (الباقي) The Ever Enduring and Immutable
97 Al-Warith (الوارث) The Heir, The Inheritor of All
98 Ar-Rasheed (الرشيد) The Guide, Infallible Teacher and Knower
99 As-Saboor (الصبور) The Patient, The Timeless.

I hope you won’t accuse me of apostasy if I say that I find nothing to disagree with in these 99 names.

My admitting that does not make me believe any less in the divinity of Jesus.

My faith in Christianity is strong enough that I can live with the fact that others do not share my faith, even with the fact that those who do not share my faith can still be people of goodwill.

Those of you who insist that Islam has absolutely nothing in common with Christianity, is your faith in Christianity that weak?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Tell me tell you a personal experience. I married a Muslim woman, now divorced from her. I am now married to a Catholic woman, whom I should have married when I was eighteen.

I have been to mosques and churches. I have lived in the USA, my home country, and Muslim countries.

There is absolutely NOTHING in common between Islam and Christianity. Whatever overlaps is not in common because the Christianity in Islam is stolen and perverted.

You think you worship the same God but you don’t. Read the Quran and then the New Testament and tell me the same God inspired both.

Read the life of Muhammad and the life of Jesus Christ and then tell me that both are prophets of the same god.

Christianity is open to the world. Islam is entirely and exclusively arabo-centric.

There is absolutely NOTHING in common between them.

 

[nonsumd]

There is absolutely NOTHING in common between Islam and Christianity. Whatever overlaps is not in common because the Christianity in Islam is stolen and perverted.

You think you worship the same God but you don’t. Read the Quran and then the New Testament and tell me the same God inspired both.

Read the life of Muhammad and the life of Jesus Christ and then tell me that both are prophets of the same god.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

I do not believe that God inspired the Qur’an. But there are many ideas in the Qur’an that are the same as ones in the Bible, so I have to assume that those ideas come from God and that Muslims have received graces through following those ideas that are common to the Qur’an and the Bible.

I do not believe Jesus is a prophet of God; I believe he is God.

I do not believe Muhammad was a prophet of God; all I said was that he resembles in a number of ways an Old Testament prophet (who were far from perfect, we should remember).

Christianity is open to the world. Islam is entirely and exclusively arabo-centric.

There is only slightly more truth in saying that than saying that Christianity is a European religion.

Most Indonesian Muslims certainly do not see Arabs as having a monopoly on the right way to practice Islam, however highly those Indonesian Muslims esteem Muhammad.

A well-known joke across the Islamic world goes like this: “Why did God send Muhammad to the Arabs? – Because the Arabs needed him the most!”

Why use such language as “stolen” and “perverted”?

How can you with certainty say it was not simply a case of Muhammad and his earliest followers receiving only fragments of Christianity and piecing them together with bits of Judaism and their own Semitic traditions? Well-intentioned people are inventing religions all the time with bits and snatches of Christianity (I live in California). And, of course, we know good intentions do not only pave the path to heaven…

The Arabs knew that the Jews rejected Christianity. Why should we expect the Arabs to have seen the truth about Jesus’ divinity when the Jews had not? Why should we expect the Arabs to have accepted Jesus’ divinity when many Christians at the time did not accept the Trinitarianism of the Catholic Church?

Why should we expect the Arabs to have been impressed by Christianity when the pagan Persians had captured Jerusalem (to the cheers of the Jews) and just barely been retaken by the Byzantine emperor Heraclius only at the end of Muhammad’s life?

 

[paarsurrey]

Whatever overlaps is not in common because the Christianity in Islam is stolen and perverted.

Hi

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Don’t put words in my mouth.

I am actually addressing your implication that there is some comonality between Islam and Christianity with this quote:

Those of you who insist that Islam has absolutely nothing in common with Christianity, is your faith in Christianity that weak?

So I don’t think I have put words in your mouth at all.

nonsumd:

I do not believe that God inspired the Qur’an. But there are many ideas in the Qur’an that are the same as ones in the Bible, so I have to assume that those ideas come from God and that Muslims have received graces through following those ideas that are common to the Qur’an and the Bible.

That’s a big assumption, isn’t it? Are you so keen to believe in the teachings of a man who murdered, raided caravans, rustled livestock, tortured, beheaded unarmed prisoners of war, enslaved women and children, traded slaves in the mosque, committed genocide and ethnic-cleansing and made war on neighboring countries?

If i told you I am a prophet of the God Bollox who created the universe and that he commands me to oppress all Christians and deny the truth as believed by Christians, would you believe me?

No? Am I not evil enough for you to take me at my word that Bollox is the one true Creator of the universe and is the same god as Yahweh?

Why would you believe Muhammad but not me?

nonsumd:

I do not believe Jesus is a prophet of God; I believe he is God.

This makes it even worse. Are you saying that your God Jesus Christ who commanded you to love and forgive would make a murderer, genocidal, ethnic-cleansing, caravan-raiding, camel-rustling, torturing, enslaving bandit as his final messenger who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ?

nonsumd:

I do not believe Muhammad was a prophet of God; all I said was that he resembles in a number of ways an Old Testament prophet (who were far from perfect, we should remember).

Fine if you want to give credence to untruth.

nonsumd:

There is only slightly more truth in saying that than saying that Christianity is a European religion.

Untrue. This shows you that you know nothing about Islam and even Christianity, despite professing the faith.

nonsumd:

Most Indonesian Muslims certainly do not see Arabs as having a monopoly on the right way to practice Islam, however highly those Indonesian Muslims esteem Muhammad.

Is that why they only recite their Quran in Arabic and are beginning to dress more and more like Arabs? The more pious the Muslim the more like an Arab he/she is.

When I was first introduced to Islam, you could hardly see a burkha in Indonesia. Now when I visit I see black Arab burkhas everywhere.

nonsumd:

A well-known joke across the Islamic world goes like this: “Why did God send Muhammad to the Arabs? – Because the Arabs needed him the most!”

That just means they needed someone who killed, murdered, tortured, raided caravans and villages, took slaves and permitted his men to rape the women, tortured and beheaded prisoners of war, and made war on neighboring countries.

Yeah right.

nonsumd:

Why use such language as “stolen” and “perverted”?

Because that’s the truth?

nonsumd:

How can you with certainty say it was not simply a case of Muhammad and his earliest followers receiving only fragments of Christianity and piecing them together with bits of Judaism and their own Semitic traditions? Well-intentioned people are inventing religions all the time with bits and snatches of Christianity (I live in California). And, of course, we know good intentions do not only pave the path to heaven…

What fragments of Christianity did they receive that was true?

Pray tell.

nonsumd:

The Arabs knew that the Jews rejected Christianity. Why should we expect the Arabs to have seen the truth about Jesus’ divinity when the Jews had not? Why should we expect the Arabs to have accepted Jesus’ divinity when many Christians at the time did not accept the Trinitarianism of the Catholic Church?

So you’re saying their religion is false then. Why give credence and rush to claim brotherhood with falsehood?

nonsumd:

Why should we expect the Arabs to have been impressed by Christianity when the pagan Persians had captured Jerusalem (to the cheers of the Jews) and just barely been retaken by the Byzantine emperor Heraclius only at the end of Muhammad’s life?

Why are you a Christian knowing exactly what they did? Aren’t the historical facts the same for you as for them?

Did the Persian conquest of Jerusalem to the cheers of the Jews invalide Christianity for you?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Rodrigo Bivar;2613868:

Whatever overlaps is not in common because the Christianity in Islam is stolen and perverted.

Hi

Do you expect me to laugh or cry?

 

[nonsumd]

Rodrigo, you’ve confessed that you have a personal investment in thinking the worst of Islam (your failed marriage with a Muslim woman), so perhaps I should just give up trying to get you to be more reasonable.

A couple months ago on a message board I posted hundreds of messages defending Catholic teaching (transubstantiation in particular) and challenging Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, and OSAS in response to the anti-Catholic fulminations of a Calvinist – only to find out that this guy presumed that his experience of bad Catholics within his own family gave him the right to condemn all Catholics and all of Catholicism.

I am actually addressing your implication that there is some comonality between Islam and Christianity with this quote:

Those of you who insist that Islam has absolutely nothing in common with Christianity, is your faith in Christianity that weak?

So I don’t think I have put words in your mouth at all.

If I did not say x, but you say that I said x, you are putting words in my mouth.

I do not need to believe that other religions are completely false and totally diabolic in origin for me to continue to believe in the superior truth of Christianity. My faith is that strong. Is your faith strong enough to live with the truth?

That’s a big assumption, isn’t it? Are you so keen to believe in the teachings of a man who…

Did I ever say I believed in the teachings of Muhammad?

If i told you I am a prophet of the God Bollox who created the universe and that he commands me to oppress all Christians and deny the truth as believed by Christians, would you believe me?

No? Am I not evil enough for you to take me at my word that Bollox is the one true Creator of the universe and is the same god as Yahweh?

I might just believe you, R.B., because fanatics have a certain power of persuasion…

This makes it even worse. Are you saying that your God Jesus Christ who commanded you to love and forgive would make a murderer, genocidal, ethnic-cleansing, caravan-raiding, camel-rustling, torturing, enslaving bandit as his final messenger who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ?

I don’t believe the God who sent Jesus sent Muhammad (I say yet again).

Just because I disagree with you on some things does not mean you have to misrepresent me as disagreeing with you about everything.

The way you foam at the mouth at the very thought of Islam and Muslims I wonder if, when it came down to it, you would follow Jesus and forgive your enemies.

Fine if you want to give credence to untruth.

I think you have problem understanding English. I said that Muhammad resembled an Old Testament prophet. I did not say that Muhammad was a prophet of God. The devil often masquerades as an angel when it suits his purposes (not that I presume that I know whether any human being, including Muhammad, is just the devil in disguise).

(cont.)

 

[nonsumd]

(cont.)

Untrue. This shows you that you know nothing about Islam and even Christianity, despite professing the faith.

Islam and Christianity include peoples of all nations – and they make their appeal to the whole world.

Islam is somewhat more Arabo-centric than Christianity is Judeocentric because many Muslims look to Muhammad as a model not just for moral behavior but also for specifics of dress, diet, manners, and other details; thus Arabic cultural ways have greater prestige among Muslims than Jewish cultural ways have among Christians. Christians do not look to Jesus as a model for specific cultural practices, only for moral behavior.

At the same time, can you really say that there is no connection between conversion to Christianity and imitation of European/Western cultural ways?

Is that why they only recite their Quran in Arabic and are beginning to dress more and more like Arabs? The more pious the Muslim the more like an Arab he/she is.

When I was first introduced to Islam, you could hardly see a burkha in Indonesia. Now when I visit I see black Arab burkhas everywhere.

Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the Word of God; in their religion the Qur’an is the equivalent of the Person of Jesus in Christianity. It is not strange that such an exalted view of a scriptural text should lead to believing that the specific human language in which the text was revealed is itself sacred and not interchangeable with other human languages. We Christians never had such an exalted view of our scriptures and hence of the specific languages they were originally written in. Yet, until recently, we Catholics believed that Latin was the only language fit for our liturgy.

It is true that Arabizing fashions in clothing have been spreading in Indonesia, but it is still a minority that follow them and it cannot be said that all of these people consider themselves to be imitating Arabs so much as just “dressing Muslim.” And there are many Indonesians who consider themselves devout Muslims in Indonesia yet disparage the imitation of Arab fashions.

That just means they needed someone who killed, murdered, tortured, raided caravans and villages, took slaves and permitted his men to rape the women, tortured and beheaded prisoners of war, and made war on neighboring countries.

The point of this Muslim joke is that the Arabs were the most depraved and wicked people on the earth so God sent his final prophet to them.

What fragments of Christianity did they receive that was true?

Pray tell.

That there is One God. That God is merciful and compassionate. That Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. That Jesus will come at the end of time. That we should keep continually in the presence of God (the five daily prayers). That we should show compassion to the weak (the obligation to pay the alms tithe). That God is as close to each of us as our jugular vein.

So you’re saying their religion is false then. Why give credence and rush to claim brotherhood with falsehood?

I am saying that Islam is neither entirely true nor entirely false; it teaches many of the same truths that Christianity does.

I claim brotherhood with the Muslim because we are children of the same God. That we are all God’s children is not diminished by the fact that we do not understand Him in the same ways.

Why are you a Christian knowing exactly what they did? Aren’t the historical facts the same for you as for them?

Did the Persian conquest of Jerusalem to the cheers of the Jews invalide Christianity for you?

By the grace of God, I am a Christian and as such can easily distinguish between the worldly fortunes of Christian states and the validity of Christianity. A pagan Arab of Muhammad’s time would not necessarily have had the grace to see beyond the humiliation of the worldly power of Christian rulers.

You don’t know the intentions with which pagan Arabs went about assembling Islam – it is completely your choice to impute to them a malevolent purpose.