Bishop Williamson lashes out at the Jews again

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psst, 911 buildings - controlled demolitions. Watch the youtube videos.
 
Did the Catholic Church ever teach that Jews were guilty of deicide? Did Popes teach this? It seems to be an internal issue that Catholics should address, not people from other religions.
 
Oh, and Bp Williamson is not a holocaust denier. He disputed that precise 6 million figure as far as I know.
 
hudson said:
Did the Catholic Church ever teach that Jews were guilty of deicide? Did Popes teach this? It seems to be an internal issue that Catholics should address, not people from other religions.
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Yes, up until Vatican II. The charge of deicide was a guiding factor in Catholic Church persecution of the Jews. It can therefore hardly be seen as an internal matter from a Jewish standpoint, then or now.
 
chosen_people said:
Yes, up until Vatican II. The charge of deicide was a guiding factor in Catholic Church persecution of the Jews. It can therefore hardly be seen as an internal matter from a Jewish standpoint, then or now.
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If your statement is true, it sounds like the Bishop is speaking from what he perceives are traditional teachings of the Church. In my opinion it is 100% an internal matter. Outside forces should have no say in the teachings of the one true Catholic and Apostolic Church no matter how difficult those teachings are.
 
pollycarp said:
Oh, and Bp Williamson is not a holocaust denier. He disputed that precise 6 million figure as far as I know.
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Well originally he totally denied that the holocaust took place. Later he conceded that maybe a few hundred thousand Jews may have been murdered but denied that there was a systematic final solution. In coming to this conclusion he demonstrated his extensive knowledge of chemicals, materials and engineering. For instance, he claims that the gas chambers in which millions of Jews were murdered didn’t actually operate because in his learned opinion the gas dispersal would have been fatal to the operators. Using this same extensive knowledge, he explains that the damage to the Pentagon could not have been caused by the impact of the airplane because the material used in the nose section of the craft is simply too soft. As for his quotes from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, they are not forgeries in his opinion by the simple fact that Jews do indeed control all the governments, all the banks and all the media in the world. They use this power, in his opinion, to undermine and attack Christianity.
 
Nothing you said am I disagreeing with. Do the Bishops of the SSPX claim to uphold traditions? If CP’s statement was accurate, then it would make sense that the Bishop would hold to this view about deicide would it not? If all that being true, it comes down to what teaching is correct. The first 1900+ years of Church teachings, or the past 40+ years. The Church itself should decide the correct teaching without any say from outside influences.
 
How can a Bishop’s ethics and morality toward others not be relevant? If a Bishop expressed vehement racist views, toward blacks for example, is that something that should be of concern for Catholics/
 
hudson said:
Did the Catholic Church ever teach that Jews were guilty of deicide? Did Popes teach this? It seems to be an internal issue that Catholics should address, not people from other religions.
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Anti-Semitism in the Church is an internal Church matter? Really? So when people of other faiths defame Catholicism and the Catholic Church we should sit quietly because its none of our business? Seems to me that when evangelicals say that the Pope is the Anti-Christ and other anti-Catholic smears we speak up to defend our people and our faith. Jews have every right to do the same.
 
pollycarp said:
Oh, and Bp Williamson is not a holocaust denier. He disputed that precise 6 million figure as far as I know.
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Not quite. He said that although some Jews were killed by the Nazis, he claimed that the Jews faked the gas chambers, made up the numbers and otherwise deceived the world to ramp up pro-Jewish sympathies and to shame Europe into supporting establishing Israel. Also, his statements have been condemned by the Church, so I don’t see why any Catholic would defend them. The actual statements he made can be found on any of the WIlliamson threads that were active shortly after the excommunications were lifted.
 
Chosen People stated: Yes, up until Vatican II. The charge of deicide was a guiding factor in Catholic Church persecution of the Jews. It can therefore hardly be seen as an internal matter from a Jewish standpoint, then or now.

I am going off this statement in making my statements. In each of my comments I reference this statement as “if being true, then…” Chosen People made this statement, I have no way of verifying this or not. Is Chosen People’s statement incorrect?
 
TMC said:
Anti-Semitism in the Church is an internal Church matter? Really? So when people of other faiths defame Catholicism and the Catholic Church we should sit quietly because its none of our business? Seems to me that when evangelicals say that the Pope is the Anti-Christ and other anti-Catholic smears we speak up to defend our people and our faith. Jews have every right to do the same.
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I have no issue with Jews voicing their concerns, but when it turns into ordering the Vatican to do and believe such and such is when I have an issue. Outside forces should play no part in what our Church believes in my opinion. I do not know the Churches definitive teaching on this subject. Can someone state it? Whatever the defined teaching of the Church is, is what I will believe.
 
Then Chosen Peoples comment was incorrect obviously? ***“Yes, up until Vatican II. The charge of deicide was a guiding factor in Catholic Church persecution of the Jews. It can therefore hardly be seen as an internal matter from a Jewish standpoint, then or now.” ***
 
hudson said:
I have no issue with Jews voicing their concerns, but when it turns into ordering the Vatican to do and believe such and such is when I have an issue. Outside forces should play no part in what our Church believes in my opinion. I do not know the Churches definitive teaching on this subject. Can someone state it? Whatever the defined teaching of the Church is, is what I will believe.
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The Church’s definitive teaching is that the Jewish people did not then, and do not now, bear any special responsibility for the death of Christ and that the Jewish people do not carry a “blood curse” or any other special adverse effect from the execution of Christ. Bishop Williamson’s comments were actually made in the context of complaining that he believes that teaching is incorrect. There is no real debate within Catholicism on this topic - it is merely that Bishop WIlliamson is a (very lonely) dissident on this topic.
 
TMC said:
The Church’s definitive teaching is that the Jewish people did not then, and do not now, bear any special responsibility for the death of Christ and that the Jewish people do not carry a “blood curse” or any other special adverse effect from the execution of Christ. Bishop Williamson’s comments were actually made in the context of complaining that he believes that teaching is incorrect. There is no real debate within Catholicism on this topic - it is merely that Bishop WIlliamson is a (very lonely) dissident on this topic.
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👍
 
hudson said:
I have no issue with Jews voicing their concerns, but when it turns into ordering the Vatican to do and believe such and such is when I have an issue. Outside forces should play no part in what our Church believes in my opinion. I do not know the Churches definitive teaching on this subject. Can someone state it? Whatever the defined teaching of the Church is, is what I will believe.
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Well the ADL has just lashed out at a certain actress for referring to the Pope as a Nazi
jta.org/news/article/2011/10/18/3089875/susan-sarandon-knocked-for-calling-pope-a-nazi
According to the posts here, should we have minded our own business?
Secondly, despite what is being presented here, the change in Catholic theology concerning the involvement of Jews and their “responsibility” for “deicide” was a major factor in Vatican II.
 
First of all, this is one member of the clergy. He does not represent the Church.

Second of all, when he speaks of ancient truths, he isn’t making anything up. He may be imprudent, but his views only ring loudly when those who hate HIM plaster his words all over the internet.

Thirdly, “But he must clearly show that there is no room in the Catholic Church for purveyors of hate”, the closing line of that article is ridiculous. The Church has never been a “purveyor of hate”. Furthermore, what gall for someone who rejects the Divinity of Jesus Christ to tell a pope what he must do or think.

Take your anti-Catholicism elsewhere.
 
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