Bishop Williamson to be expelled from SSPX?

[Boulder257]

No argument - and no reason to bishop in quotations.

You’re right. I personally have a problem with his teachings as a Bishop, but you are definitely correct in that there is no question regarding the validity of his office. I was wrong for putting that title in quotations and I appreciate you pointing it out to me.

 

[JReducation]

II understand your point, but when you are a “Bishop” responsible for the shepherding of your flock, I think you are held to a higher standard. Certainly he knows this or else he would not have felt the need to share his opinion. The authority of his office requires this of him.

Bold is mine. Not every bishop is a shepherd. Only the Ordinary is a shepherd. Bishop Williamson is not an Ordinary. None of the SSPX bishops are Ordinaries. They do not have the legal or moral responsibility of a bishop. The have the grace of the sacrament. The same would apply to an auxiliary bishop in a diocese.

If we place expectations on a man because he’s a bishop, when he has no duty to us, then we’re setting ourselves up for disappointment.

You’re right.** I personally have a problem with his teachings as a Bishop, **

He does not teach as a bishop. The SSPX bishops do not have the authority to teach as bishops. Pope Benedict made this very clear. When they speak, they speak as Catholic individuals. It is others that interpret them to speak with the authority of a bishop, not the Church. Until they have a canonical place, they don’t validly teach as bishops. Even after they get a canonical place, it depends on the place they get. Not every bishop has the same authority.

but you are definitely correct in that there is no question regarding the validity of his office.

He has no office. Again the SSPX bishops have no office, that includes the office of bishop. The Office of Bishop belongs only to the head of a diocese. His auxiliaries do not hold that office. A suspended bishop does not hold that office either.

He has the Order of Bishop. But the rights and duties do not come with the ordination. They come from the Holy See.

I think that if we confuse our language, we end up having expectations that we should not have, which is usually unfortunate for the other person.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[RogerDeCourcy]

A most interesting explanation, Bro. JR. Thank you.

I think I mentioned earlier that I was aware there are lots of vagus bishops. I think some/many are validly ordained. But if you don’t have a diocese …

I would be very worried, personally, to recieve this sacrament and then have to explain myself upon my death, to the Just Judge, about what I did with it. It gives me the willies that people undergo this, irregularly.

 

[pnewton]

Bold is mine. Not every bishop is a shepherd. Only the Ordinary is a shepherd. Bishop Williamson is not an Ordinary. None of the SSPX bishops are Ordinaries. They do not have the legal or moral responsibility of a bishop.

I would also add that the SSPX bishops have no ministerial function within the Catholic Church at this time, as opposed to auxilary bishops. Yet they are still worthy of the title of respect

 

[ringil]

Do you know that there are somewhere between ten and fifteen sedevacantist bishops floating around the United States? I have their names written down somewhere but I can’t put my hands on the paper at the moment which is why I cannot give you an exact number.

I just found the paper - it is 15, and that includes “Pope Michael”.

Well, Pope Michael isn’t even a priest. He has never been ordained.

He lives with his mom.

 

[april32010]

Well, Pope Michael isn’t even a priest. He has never been ordained.

He lives with his mom.

Michael!clean the dishs !! awww mom ,i’m the pope get sis to do it

 

[ringil]

Michael!clean the dishs !! awww mom ,i’m the pope get sis to do it

sshhh, his holiness could be a poster!

 

[Boulder257]

Bold is mine. Not every bishop is a shepherd. Only the Ordinary is a shepherd. Bishop Williamson is not an Ordinary. None of the SSPX bishops are Ordinaries. They do not have the legal or moral responsibility of a bishop. The have the grace of the sacrament. The same would apply to an auxiliary bishop in a diocese.

If we place expectations on a man because he’s a bishop, when he has no duty to us, then we’re setting ourselves up for disappointment.

He does not teach as a bishop. The SSPX bishops do not have the authority to teach as bishops. Pope Benedict made this very clear. When they speak, they speak as Catholic individuals. It is others that interpret them to speak with the authority of a bishop, not the Church. Until they have a canonical place, they don’t validly teach as bishops. Even after they get a canonical place, it depends on the place they get. Not every bishop has the same authority.

He has no office. Again the SSPX bishops have no office, that includes the office of bishop. The Office of Bishop belongs only to the head of a diocese. His auxiliaries do not hold that office. A suspended bishop does not hold that office either.

He has the Order of Bishop. But the rights and duties do not come with the ordination. They come from the Holy See.

I think that if we confuse our language, we end up having expectations that we should not have, which is usually unfortunate for the other person.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

I should have been more clear. I was referring more to the fact that I think he believes that he is shepherding a flock and his “flock” certainly looks to him as a shepherd. I understand that technically this is not accurate, but I was referring more to what he believes is his role. My explanation was definitely not clear on this point and you are correct in that it gives the impression I was speaking from the Church’s view and not that of the SSPX Bishop’s.

I guess my entire point would be, if the SSPX Bishop’s were following the orders of the Pope and the laws of the Church, well, we wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. While the Pope has made certain things clear, obviosuly the SSPX Bishop’s don’t see them this way, including their roles, authorities, etc.

 

[1AugustSon7]

Bold is mine. Not every bishop is a shepherd. Only the Ordinary is a shepherd. Bishop Williamson is not an Ordinary. None of the SSPX bishops are Ordinaries. They do not have the legal or moral responsibility of a bishop. The have the grace of the sacrament. The same would apply to an auxiliary bishop in a diocese.

If we place expectations on a man because he’s a bishop, when he has no duty to us, then we’re setting ourselves up for disappointment.

He does not teach as a bishop. The SSPX bishops do not have the authority to teach as bishops. Pope Benedict made this very clear. When they speak, they speak as Catholic individuals. It is others that interpret them to speak with the authority of a bishop, not the Church. Until they have a canonical place, they don’t validly teach as bishops. Even after they get a canonical place, it depends on the place they get. Not every bishop has the same authority.

He has no office. Again the SSPX bishops have no office, that includes the office of bishop. The Office of Bishop belongs only to the head of a diocese. His auxiliaries do not hold that office. A suspended bishop does not hold that office either.

He has the Order of Bishop. But the rights and duties do not come with the ordination. They come from the Holy See.

I think that if we confuse our language, we end up having expectations that we should not have, which is usually unfortunate for the other person.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Thank you Brother, this was very clear and well put.