Bishop Williamson's comments on the recent developments - what a guy.

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603304529

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Saturday, January 24, 2009
The “Re-Incommunication”
Eleison Comments LXXXII
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As of course a large number of readers already know, a Decree dated Jan. 21 from the Congregation of Bishops in Rome (not Ecclesia Dei) “remitted” the “excommunicating” Decree of July 1, 1988, so that the four Society of St. Pius X bishops then declared to be “excommunicated” are now “re-incommunicated”. In my opinion this latter Decree is a great step forward for the Church without being a betrayal on the part of the SSPX.
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It is a great step forward for the Church because if the Church’s problem ever since Vatican II has been a separation of Catholic Authority from Catholic Truth, with this Decree Catholic Authority has taken a decisive step back towards their re-union. Just as after the Motu Proprio of July, 2007, nobody could any longer say that the true rite of Mass was banned by Rome, even if they can still behave as though it is, so too now nobody can any longer say that Catholics holding to Tradition are “outside the Church”. Certainly a number of Conciliarists will go on behaving as though they are, but they clearly no longer have the Pope on their side only. The difference is enormous!
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Of course there is still a long way to go before the neo-modernists in Rome, conscious or unconscious, realize - if ever! - how they mistake the Faith, but as the old proverb says, “Rome was not built in a day”, and it will not be repaired in a day. Nevertheless “Half a loaf is better than no bread” - ask a hungry man! - so meanwhile let us know how to thank God for this major shift of the rudder of the Conciliar Church. Let us then thank the Blessed Virgin Mary whose intervention will have been decisive, thanks to the nigh on one and three quarter million rosaries offered to her for this intention, by a number of yourselves amongst others. And let us thank and pray for Benedict XVI and all his collaborators who helped to push through this Decree, despite, for instance, a media uproar orchestrated and timed to prevent it.
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However, by asking for and accepting such reconciliation with the Conciliar Church, is not the SSPX threatening to lead the way back into Conciliarism? In no way! No doubt some Conciliarists in Rome are hoping that the Decree will serve to draw the SSPX back into the fold of Vatican II, but the Decree itself, as it stands, commits the Society to nothing more than to entering into those discussions to which the Society committed itself in 2000 when it proposed the liberation of the Mass and the ending of the “excommunications” as preconditions in the first place.
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Then are such discussions without danger? Certainly not! But St. Peter says we should always be “ready to satisfy every one that asks you for a reason of that hope which is in you” (I Pet. III, 15). How can the SSPX not rejoice in the opportunity to lay out in Rome, before the Roman authorities themselves, the profound doctrinal reasons which we believe to be at the root of the Church’s present distress? Woe unto us Catholics of Tradition if we were not ready to give reason for that hope which is in us for the rescue of the Church! So continue to pray the Rosary, dear Catholics, for the possible realization and outcome of such discussions, so that they may serve first, last and foremost, the interests of God, of God, of God. Kyrie eleison.
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La Reja, Argentina
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He’s been run through the meat grinder by the media in the last few days, and yet he remains so clear cut and logical.

What a guy.
 
I thought his comments were very good. Nothing pompous or un-humble about them at all.

Logical, and without un-due emotion.

If only people could judge his words in that fashion.
 
603304529 said:
I thought his comments were very good. Nothing pompous or un-humble about them at all.

Logical, and without un-due emotion.

If only people could judge his words in that fashion.
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Without undue emotion, true. Logical, hardly. Arrogant, certainly.
 
Gene_Church said:
Without undue emotion, true. Logical, hardly. Arrogant, certainly.
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The voice of the liberal modernist in action!

Hey, let us know when your Diocesan Seminary returns Christ Crucified to its Sanctuary, will you?
 
Honestly, I’d like to give HE a swift kick in the seat of his pants. (While I’m at it, I’d like to add a few other Bishops to the list…) Apparently 40 years of being angry does away with grace, manners, and judgement.

IF HE Fellay asked for the lifting of the excommunication (which he did) AND many have been praying for this to happen (and WE have) how right is it that when it happens that HE Williamson takes yet another verbal swipe after what has been supposedly greatly desired and yearned for happens? Will he break with his own society if a full restoration occurs? HE WIlliamson has recently been in the international hotseat for his comments. One might suspect that HE Fellay would have the tape fimly applied.
 
bubba451 said:
Honestly, I’d like to give HE a swift kick in the seat of his pants. (While I’m at it, I’d like to add a few other Bishops to the list…) Apparently 40 years of being angry does away with grace, manners, and judgement.

IF HE Fellay asked for the lifting of the excommunication (which he did) AND many have been praying for this to happen (and WE have) how right is it that when it happens that HE Williamson takes yet another verbal swipe after what has been supposedly greatly desired and yearned for happens? Will he break with his own society if a full restoration occurs? HE WIlliamson has recently been in the international hotseat for his comments. One might suspect that HE Fellay would have the tape fimly applied.
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exactly what are you afraid of Bubba? that you won’t be able to hold hands during the Our Father? the second “Eucharistic Prayer” will be tossed into the trash bin where it belongs? that you’ll have to kneel in the presence of Christ Our Lord? that you’ll have to admit that The Church is not just one denomination among many in which The Church of Jesus Christ subsists? That the Ministerial Priesthood and the priesthood of the Faithful is not the same thing? That the Kingship of Christ is not just a cute idea, but rightly enthroned in the Constitutions of every nation on earth?
 
Dauphin said:
Compared to some of his excellency’s previous comments, this one is downright gracious. This is as humble as his writing gets. :rolleyes:
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Very true!🙂 It doesn’t even really seem like the same author–he didn’t even call anyone a neo-Modernist. Maybe he’s been replaced with an imposter too (😉 to all those who know of the various imposter theories…)
 
You do not know me OR my intentions. You are assuming things NOT in evidence here. I am afraid of nothing. I have earnesly prayed for these things to happen.

WE have been praying the rosary for WHAT, EXACTLY? So His Excellency can marginalize a great victory by poking a a scab with a verbal stick and call the Church names again and saying the Society has to “rescue the Church”? To what end? If the stated goals are as Bishop Fellay has said, why the acrimony? Give this some time. Go to the meetings. State the case but leave off the name calling, particularly now.

For example, most productive conversations don’t start with “You are an idiot” and HE knows that.
 
bubba451 said:
You do not know me OR my intentions. You are assuming things NOT in evidence here. I am afraid of nothing. I have earnesly prayed for these things to happen.

WE have been praying the rosary for WHAT, EXACTLY? So His Excellency can marginalize a great victory by poking a a scab with a verbal stick and call the Church names again and saying the Society has to “rescue the Church”? To what end? If the stated goals are as Bishop Fellay has said, why the acrimony? Give this some time. Go to the meetings. State the case but leave off the name calling, particularly now.

For example, most productive conversations don’t start with “You are an idiot” and HE knows that.
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What acrimony in his speach, bubba? Because he said “the neo modernists in Rome?” You mean all of a sudden there aren’t any anymore, or there never were any? He is restating exactly what the Society has been saying since their foundation. So I repeat: what exactly are you afraid of, bubba? that you won’t be able to hold hands during the Our Father? the second “Eucharistic Prayer” will be thrown into…???

what are you afraid of bubba?
 
While I would like to preface with the fact I believe the actions recently taken by His Holiness are a great gift of grace for the Church, I must say this letter does indeed lack due humility. It sounds as if Bishop Williamson may need a reminder of who sits on the throne of Saint Peter.

No, that doesn’t mean I’m a modernist (though I do have the great displeasure of attending a NO Mass that is far too Protestant for my tastes as a former Southern Baptist who came to the One True Church for a reason). While I weap at much of what has been done to Christ’s Church over the past few decades (and, indeed, in previous ages) by some of those who are allowed influence within the Church, I trust in Christ and intend to remain faithful to the Roman Pontiff as the head of Christ’s Church on Earth.

I must say this letter leaves me wondering about Williamson’s intentions, though for me it in no way reflects on the SSPX as a whole or the other three who have been brought back into the fold of Christ’s Church for whom I pray success in their holy endeavors to traditionalize the liturgy (oh, and obviously the NO Mass is acceptable in my mind, just not the best way of doing things in my opinion - though it’s obviously not the role of anyone on this forum to determine the form the liturgy ought to take).

Prayerfully.
Stephen
 
It doesn’t seem humble at all for him to take an insulting attitude towards the Church as a whole. The SSPX has been brought back into the Church; the Church has not joined the SSPX.
 
Lujack said:
It doesn’t seem humble at all for him to take an insulting attitude towards the Church as a whole. The SSPX has been brought back into the Church; the Church has not joined the SSPX.
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Or, the Church might be finally coming back to the idea that the traditionally way of the thinking is actually the Catholic way of thinking.

And round and round we go.
 
Lujack said:
It doesn’t seem humble at all for him to take an insulting attitude towards the Church as a whole. The SSPX has been brought back into the Church; the Church has not joined the SSPX.
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I think the problem with most of those who take offense at the Bishop’s words are confusing insults with speaking the unfortunate truth. HE Williamson does not, and never has, minced words when it comes to the truth, regardless of how difficult it is to hear. He never insults according to the meaning of the word. He never sugar-coats. He cuts to the chase and says what is wrong with the Church, and it appears offensive to those who, for one reason or another, have not cared to look at these problems with honesty. The doctrinal problems in the Church are not like other problems in our lives to which we can turn a blind eye because “it hurts” or it’s “insulting.” Countless souls are at stake.
 
Did someone say neo-modernist? That got me to thinking about this neo-traditionalist group called the SSPX. I prefer real tradition.
The Society of St. Pius I
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“To be any more Trad, you’d have to be Jewish”
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Welcome to the fledgling website of the Society of St. Pius I (SSPI). Unlike other so-called “traditionalist” Roman Catholic groups, we adhere to the ORIGINAL Roman Catholic Mass of A.D. 40-200, and described by St. Justin Martyr and the Apostolic Constitutions, and used by Pope St. Pius I of happy memory.
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Don’t be fooled by PHONY “Vulgate” neotraditionalists, who claim to protect tradition, and yet still defend the RADICAL and totally UNCATHOLIC reforms of the 4th century A.D. So-called “trads” pretend to be against the modernism of the last hundred years, but where were they when the original Rite of Rome, the Greek rite USED BY ST. PETER AND THE APOSTLES was being totally gutted and revised by unknown scholars and translated into the vernacular language of Latin?
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Unlike other wimpy neotraditionalist groups who attach themselves to various other Piuses, we at the SSPI make absolutely ZERO compromises with modernism. We reject not just one, but BOTH “Novus Ordos”-the Novus Ordo of 1970 promulgated by Paul VI, and the Latin Vulgate Mass of 400 A.D. promulgated by Innocent I and Pope Gregory I, which we call the “Vulgar Mass.”
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Thanks to the miracle of the internet, we can now spread the TRUTH about the REAL Roman liturgical tradition which is being kept alive only by a brave remnant of faithful Catholics: myself and whoever else wants to join.
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–Klaudios Philadelphou, Archon and Caesaropapist of the SSPI
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603304529 said:
Or, the Church might be finally coming back to the idea that the traditionally way of the thinking is actually the Catholic way of thinking.

And round and round we go.
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Are you saying that the Church was wrong? I would suggest that you go back and study the issue. The problem with the SSPX had nothing to do with doctrine, and if the traditional thinking was disobedience to the Pope then you seem to imply that disobedience to the Pope is the catholic way of thinking.

You know what? Probably a lot of liberals would agree with you. They think that they do not have to obey to the Pope.
 
Cristiano said:
Are you saying that the Church was wrong? I would suggest that you go back and study the issue. The problem with the SSPX had nothing to do with doctrine, and if the traditional thinking was disobedience to the Pope then you seem to imply that disobedience to the Pope is the catholic way of thinking.

You know what? Probably a lot of liberals would agree with you. They think that they do not have to obey to the Pope.
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The “problem,” as far as the SSPX is concerned, has EVERYTHING to do with doctrine. And actually, disobedience to a Pope can actually be the most Catholic way of thinking.
 
This is NOT a personal challege and evidently not the best place to discuss this. I am frustrated with His Excellency for the reason I stated–nothing more. Poking at people you want to get to change thier minds is just not a good plan. There is a proper time and place and apparently all have agreed to do this. Notice the Church and how it has commented on these things (this time-I know). Restraint is particularly important at this juncture. H.E. knows this. I’m sure it’s frustrating to H.E., but resisting comments seems to be the prudent choice.

As to your comments,(as gently as possible) You assume a lot.
I don’t hold hands, I’m usually on the top step on my knees close to Father. As I explained, nothing you have said poses a particular problem to me other than your tone with me. Go pick a fight with someone else
 
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