Bishops' Campaign Declares War on Abortion Funding in Health Care [EWTN]

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Teelynn said:
Your last sentence is quite accurate. This administration, I am afraid and unfortunately is wanting to do just that. And it looks like they are moving right along.:mad:
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Insurance doesn’t cover things like abortions, it is very difficult considering insurance coverage for abortions, unless you buy a seperate policy, that is difficult to determine or buy.a policy on something you don’t think will happen to you like an abortion.
You might buy a policy rider for abortion for your daughters.
I beleive that if you have an abortion then you should pay for it yourself.
Roe vs Wade stands in the way, if you want to change the law, change Roe vs Wade, or don’t I get it?
 
JReducation said:
To piggy back abortion funding into healthcare reform is an injustice to the unborn, to the sick poor, and to those citizens who, in conscience, cannot support abortion. They are two separate questions.

Do we need and want healthcare reform in the USA and around the world? Of course we do.

Do we want to pay taxes to fund abortion? No. Pregnancy is not an illness and an uwnated child is not a disease.

The Gospel does not allow us to make these kind of compromises. The Gospel does not ask us to accept evil to achieve a good as long as we have a choice in the matter. The last time that we looked, this was a democratic nation where citizens have a right to vote on these issues. This is a nation that was built upon the principle that taxation without representation is tyranny of the worse kind. Now we’re being asked to pay taxes for something that too many of us consider a grave injustice, without representation. A question of the magnitude of abortion deserves to be taken to a referendum of some kind. You cannot treat human life as you would property tax. At least in the case of property tax you’re allegedly paying taxes on the equity on your property, which can be called a form of income. But where is the benefit of abortion? Who does it benefit?

The facts show that it doesn’t even benefit those men and women who procure an abortion. The after effects are often horrendous. This information is not shared with the general public who is being taxed for this violation of justice.

A natioin who denies the right to be born, has taken the first step toward totalitarianism. It can also deny it’s citizens other rights that are not as basic.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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render to ceasar the things that are ceasars and to God the things that are God’s
bro, there are christians of good will who beleive that a child’s life is born at their first breath.
Is withholding funds for the abortion the only or best way to fight the committing of an abortion?
some americans don’t take it serious like we do
 
thecross said:
Insurance doesn’t cover things like abortions, it is very difficult considering insurance coverage for abortions, unless you buy a seperate policy, that is difficult to determine or buy.a policy on something you don’t think will happen to you like an abortion.
You might buy a policy rider for abortion for your daughters.
I beleive that if you have an abortion then you should pay for it yourself.
Roe vs Wade stands in the way, if you want to change the law, change Roe vs Wade, or don’t I get it?
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Roe v. Wade said that abortion was the constitutional right of a woman. That in itself is wrong. However, the point here is that Roe v. Wade never said that the taxpayer had to pay for the abortion. Now, the proposed healthcare bill includes financial coverage for abortions. It also includes the posibility of purchasing “Abortion Insurance” using tax payer dollars.

The tax payer has a right to say where his taxes go. This country was founded on that principle. The bishops are not against healthcare reform. On the contrary, they have pushed for healthcare reform to increase benefits to the poor, elderly, illegal immigrant, disabled and other members of society who have no insurance and cannot afford it.

What the Church is saying is that is one thing to provide for healthcare and another to provide for abortion. The unborn child is not an infection. Therefore, to terminate the life of the child and call it reproductive healthcare is a lie.

We have a court system that allows murderers to walk the streets after several yuears in prison, but wants to treat the unborn as a virus. What is wrong with this picture?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
thecross said:
render to ceasar the things that are ceasars and to God the things that are God’s
bro, there are christians of good will who beleive that a child’s life is born at their first breath.
Is withholding funds for the abortion the only or best way to fight the committing of an abortion?
some americans don’t take it serious like we do
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Caesar does not have the right to kill the unborn. Whether certain Christian believe it or not is totally irrelevant. The Church has spoken. The Church cares not what others believe, even Catholics, when she speaks infallibly.

It is not a matter of whether it is the best way. The Truth, with a capital T, is that a single cent given to the killing of an innocent person is a contribution to a grave violation of justice. No man has the freedom to contribute to murder. Therefore, those who do so, are sinning against the Commandments in several ways. They are supporting murder and they are overstepping their rights. You do not have the freedom to do something that is morally wrong. Such an act is an injustice against God, the author of freedom.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
You should approach your pastor. This was not an option. This was an order. In our diocese the bishop reiterated the order to all pastors and the email was passed out as a separate leaf on a bright color so that no one could easily misplace it.

Now let’s hope that Catholics will act on it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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I hate abortion just like you, but I still want the health care bill passed with all of its ills. I persionally beleive that funding is a non issue. If I vote for a senator or a congress member who does vote for the health care bill is that a venial or mortal sin, will I be excommunicated?👍👍
 
JReducation said:
Roe v. Wade said that abortion was the constitutional right of a woman. That in itself is wrong. However, the point here is that Roe v. Wade never said that the taxpayer had to pay for the abortion. Now, the proposed healthcare bill includes financial coverage for abortions. It also includes the posibility of purchasing “Abortion Insurance” using tax payer dollars.

The tax payer has a right to say where his taxes go. This country was founded on that principle. The bishops are not against healthcare reform. On the contrary, they have pushed for healthcare reform to increase benefits to the poor, elderly, illegal immigrant, disabled and other members of society who have no insurance and cannot afford it.

What the Church is saying is that is one thing to provide for healthcare and another to provide for abortion. The unborn child is not an infection. Therefore, to terminate the life of the child and call it reproductive healthcare is a lie.

We have a court system that allows murderers to walk the streets after several yuears in prison, but wants to treat the unborn as a virus. What is wrong with this picture?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Thanks for clarifing that taxpayers can chose the programs for our tax dollars.
I thought the abortion insuance premiums were paid by the person seeking the abortion, my mistake.
I’m glad my mom had no reason to have an abortion.
How about jail time for the ladies who committ abortions? Why not work on that angle?
 
thecross said:
I hate abortion just like you, but I still want the health care bill passed with all of its ills. I persionally beleive that funding is a non issue. If I vote for a senator or a congress member who does vote for the health care bill is that a venial or mortal sin, will I be excommunicated?👍👍
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To knowingly elect a person who supports abortion is immoral. To support a healthcare bill that funds the killing of innocent people for the sake of others is also immoral. The unborn child has a greater right to our protection than the person without insurance. The unborn child has no voice and the citizen without insurance does have a voice. This is a Church teaching to which all Catholics must submit. The Church is not giving us an option here. The bishops are defending an infallible position of the Church. The key word here is, infallible. We cannot justify not supporting an infallible teaching. There is never a moral justification for a Catholic to do so, unless he lacks knowledge or understanding of what the moral issue is.

But Pope John Paul made it very clear that abortion is the single top moral issue for Catholics today. It’s not healthcare. It’s abortion. John Paul said this with the full power of infallibility behind him, because he was repeating what is in the Scriptures. The scriptures cannot err.

We cannot morally justify ourselves before God saying that we want this bill to pass with all its ills when one of its ills has been identified as the single moral issue for Catholics. No person of faith can support an ill of this magnitude.

I don’t have insurance. I would like to have some. But not a the expense of the unborn.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
thecross said:
Thanks for clarifing that taxpayers can chose the programs for our tax dollars.
I thought the abortion insuance premiums were paid by the person seeking the abortion, my mistake.
I’m glad my mom had no reason to have an abortion.
How about jail time for the ladies who committ abortions? Why not work on that angle?
Click to expand...
The Franciscan Brothers of Life run pregnancy centers. We exist to promote the Gospel of Life. My experience in the pregnancy centers has been that most, not all, of the women who have had aborrtions have been lied to. They have been told that this is not a baby, it’s a fetus. Someone failed to explain that fetus is a term that describes a state in mammal development, just as the word childhood does. It does not make the life inside the mother any less human, because it’s a fetus.

Most abortion mills will not show the mothers a sonagram so they can see their baby, before submitting to the procedure. Often the physician has to use the sonagram to see what he’s doing. What they do is place a screen so that the mother cannot see the baby being torn apart.

They also do not tell the mother of the consequences after the abortion: psychological damage to her, damage to her uterus, the possibility of a failed abortion where the child comes out alive and is thown into a pan to die, the possibility of sterility, the nightmares that follow and so forth.

Planned Parenthood clinics and women’s clinics do not offer them an alternative to abortion. When the women walk in, they speak abouit abortion. No one mentions financial support, free healthcare services, affordable housing for mother and child. No one offers clothing, cribs, food, diapers and so forth.

When women come to us, and have not had an abortion, we offer then two years of support, if they don’t have the finances. We pay the medical expenses. We train them for jobs. We train their partners. We provide food, clothing, baby furniture, other articles that they will need. We even offer adoption options. We send them to a clinic for a sonogram and we pay for it or get it donated by doctors. We have doctors and nurses who volunteer their services. All we have to do is call them and the women can go to them. I even got a dentist to volunteer free dental care for the mothers and partners.

The point is that these women are not criminals, they are victims of a system that lies to them and refuses to offer them alternatives, leading them to believe that they are right in their despair.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Hi, JohnXXIII,

Sorry I am joining this thread late … I have been reading quickly to catch up … but, John, I have had to take time out just to scratch my head and re-read that you claim to be a Catholic and you are also claiming that because of RvsW, abortions are the law of the land and are OK? You say you and your family pray abortions will end… yet, you are shouting about people’s rights to murder their unborn children. Honest, man, just what is it that you think your Catholic faith teaches (sanctity of life) - and that our government is dead set in destroying (sanctity of life)? Do you unerstand that this is NOT about getting your pre-existing health conditions covered under some government run health care program - but, about ENCOURAGING the on-going slaughter of the most innocent of all humans - unborn babies. Do you understand now?
johnXXIII said:
The Roman Catholic majority in America support
Senate passes first procedural hurdles en route to dramatic reform of American healthcare

Confronted with a Republican minority that seemed totally unconcerned about the plight of the uninsured, Democrats voted together at 1am Monday to pass dramatic new reforms of the health insurance system. Both sides had pledged to maintain current law with regard to abortion coverage. “This is not about politics,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. “It’s about people. It’s about life and death in America. It’s about human suffering, and given the chance to relieve this suffering, we must. Citizens in each of our states have written to tell us they’re broke because of our broken health care system.”
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This may come as a shock, John, but, you have been lied to - the entire country has been lied to by Obama, Reid and Pelozi. You heard them pledge that the status quo on aboriton would be maintained - you wrote about it in the previous paragraph - and do you know what that status quo really is? It is the Hyde Amendment which forbids the federal funding of elective abortions. What Reid has pulled off is an overturn of the Hyde Amendment - a reversal of the stauts quo - he lied to everyone. Do you understand that?

Truly, it is a terrible thing to be lied to by the President of the United States - but, he said to the US Catholic Bishops that he would re-work the conscience clause … but, he didn’t. Reid said he would keep the status quo…but, he didn’t. The only one who actually was outright pro-abortion was the Catholic(?) Speaker of the House - and the amendment got in - not because she wanted it, but because she did not have the votes. Now, Pelozi is trying to undermine the votes she got in the House so the Conference Committee comes up with an abortion proposal like the Senate passed.

I have read your numerous posts and I really do not know how you can champion aborition as you are doing and still call yourself a Catholic. I am being quite serious. With major inconsistencies like this - it looks like you have a promising career in politics!:rolleyes:

God bless
 
Hi, Br JR,

I honestly had no idea you order did this. Where is/are your clinic(s) located? More to the point, do you have any clinics in Texas?

God bless
JReducation said:
The Franciscan Brothers of Life run pregnancy centers. We exist to promote the Gospel of Life. My experience in the pregnancy centers has been that most, not all, of the women who have had aborrtions have been lied to. They have been told that this is not a baby, it’s a fetus. Someone failed to explain that fetus is a term that describes a state in mammal development, just as the word childhood does. It does not make the life inside the mother any less human, because it’s a fetus.

Most abortion mills will not show the mothers a sonagram so they can see their baby, before submitting to the procedure. Often the physician has to use the sonagram to see what he’s doing. What they do is place a screen so that the mother cannot see the baby being torn apart.

They also do not tell the mother of the consequences after the abortion: psychological damage to her, damage to her uterus, the possibility of a failed abortion where the child comes out alive and is thown into a pan to die, the possibility of sterility, the nightmares that follow and so forth.

Planned Parenthood clinics and women’s clinics do not offer them an alternative to abortion. When the women walk in, they speak abouit abortion. No one mentions financial support, free healthcare services, affordable housing for mother and child. No one offers clothing, cribs, food, diapers and so forth.

When women come to us, and have not had an abortion, we offer then two years of support, if they don’t have the finances. We pay the medical expenses. We train them for jobs. We train their partners. We provide food, clothing, baby furniture, other articles that they will need. We even offer adoption options. We send them to a clinic for a sonogram and we pay for it or get it donated by doctors. We have doctors and nurses who volunteer their services. All we have to do is call them and the women can go to them. I even got a dentist to volunteer free dental care for the mothers and partners.

The point is that these women are not criminals, they are victims of a system that lies to them and refuses to offer them alternatives, leading them to believe that they are right in their despair.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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tqualey said:
Hi, Br JR,

I honestly had no idea you order did this. Where is/are your clinic(s) located? More to the point, do you have any clinics in Texas?

God bless
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The Brothers of Life are a new community. I’m a Franciscan of Penance. To make a long stroy short, I presented a proposal to the Archbishop of Miami to break off the larger Franciscan order to form the Franciscan Brothers of Life. We were given permission to begin the process of ministry and discernment. Currently we work only in this diocese. We are praying that God will send more men who will want to join the new community so that we can take the ministry beyond Miami.

You can read more about it at www.francisansoflife.org

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
tqualey said:
Hi, Br JR,

I honestly had no idea you order did this. Where is/are your clinic(s) located? More to the point, do you have any clinics in Texas?

God bless
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I am glad that Br. JR posted about what is happening in Miami. So many good works are done every day but go without even a mention. I pray God looks after your little group and it becomes larger. Good Job.
 
With Sunday’s church bulletin, another insert on healthcare reform was attached from the USCCB saying that we must all oppose the final bill until provisions have been met against abortion funding and in favor of conscience protection. We were urged to make our voices heard.

I find this entire matter rather odd. The bishops have been working ardently in favor of socialized medicine for years. They have funded social justice groups who clearly advocate for Planned Parenthood (this is old news) and who target poor immigrant groups, both legal and illegal, regarding their reproductive rights including the right to have an abortion.

Now, the final negotiations on the bill are being done in secret behind closed doors even though Congress is in recess. Even the negotiator’s names are being withheld. Just exactly how are we to make our voices heard?

BTW, I just read that a new abortion “Super Center” is being built in Houston. What incredible “good luck and timing” this is for the crusaders of death. And just how naive are we, REALLY?
 
Hi, Tigg,

I guess I was asleep on this on…
Tigg said:
BTW, I just read that a new abortion “Super Center” is being built in Houston. What incredible “good luck and timing” this is for the crusaders of death. And just how naive are we, REALLY?
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I live in Spring, which is a bedroom community north of Houston - and I have not heard of this “Super Center”. Can you give me a link to get details - I was not able to find out anything about it.

Thanks and God bless,
 
Texas is running behind the times. South Beach–Miami and Boca Raton, two of Florida’s most upscale areas have “spas”. You can get an abortion, a massage, nails and hair done, and drink champaigne. They actually call them spas. That’s a sad statement about how we look at life in the 21st century.

That being said, our bishops are calling us to remind our law makers that they cannot include abortion, euthenasia, assisted suicide and embryonic stem cell research in any bill, healthcare or otherwise. What people can do is to write their congress reps or visit them, before they return to DC for the winter session of Congress and ask them not to vote when the bill reaches the floor.

What makes this a very scary thing is that they are doing this behind closed doors and they are not sharing any information.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
AnotherVoice said:
I am glad that Br. JR posted about what is happening in Miami. So many good works are done every day but go without even a mention. I pray God looks after your little group and it becomes larger. Good Job.
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Right now we have five candidates: two from the Philipines, one from Germany and three from the USA. Please pray for vocations. I know that we have a shortage of priests in our parishes. However, as our pastor and I agree, the average parish priest does not have the training or the time to:
  • run pregnancy centers
  • travel around the diocese giving chasity talks to youth
  • travel from parish to parish educating the laity
  • preach to those who promote and perform abortions
  • provide counseling to those who are seeking abortions
  • provide healing ministry to those who have had abortions
  • teach parenting to those who decide to keep their children
  • raise funds to buy baby supplies, food, clothing and provide housing for mothers and babies
  • train volunteers
  • sit with a senior citizen or a person who is terminally ill and protect him/her from euthenasia
  • pray the dying into heaven, even when it takes days of sitting
  • prepare and organize marches, protests and communiques on life issues
  • research what is happening in national and international laws
  • teach the Gospel of Life
  • teach Theology of the Body to youth
  • teach the Gospel of Life to the faithful
  • integrate the Gospel of Life in the curriculum of religious education and youth ministry
  • walk the streets on frigid nights picking up those whose life is in danger from the cold
  • stand on corners in neighborhoods where gang wars are a daily event, preaching conversion
  • mediate conflict resolution in marriages that are split apart over pregnancy
  • go the communities where expectant youth live who won’t come to the pregnancy centers
  • recruit doctors who will offer free services to women in crisis pregnancies or to their babies
There are not enough lay volunteers who can do this 24/7. Most lay volunteers have families and problems of their own. They don’t have the flexibility of going without food, electric or water, so they can give their money to those who have unborn children and need these services or those who have new babies. We can’t ask the average lay person to go without electric or a meal to give to others. Brothers can do this. We have no dependants. Those of us who have children, such as me, are widowers whose children are independent adults.

Pray for more Brothers of Life and for the Sisters of Life in NY. We’re not the same family. But we’re called to do the same thing.

The Brothers of Life are founded upon the great mystery of the Incarnation. Francis, was driven by St. John. “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son.” God so loved humanity that he vested his only begotten son with a human nature raising the dignity of man by the incarnation of his Son.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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