Bishops speak out against the government

[grampben]

At least 5 anglican bishops and many catholic bishops, including the leader of the Catholic Church in England and Wales have spoken out against Gordon Brown’s plans to heal the economy by encouraging mass consumer spending.

Now I know there’s a danger in putting this on a forum full of American conservatives, but please don’t call Bishop O’Connor a liberal and a socialist, but if one reads what he is saying, it’s so true. Capitalism isn’t bad, but it’s the greed within it that has had a grip on the world for years! Perhaps this global crisis is what we deserve?

Here are the articles: they are blog entries, but speak of an actual news story.
bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2008/12/the_pm_v_the_abc.html
bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2009/01/god_is_not_dead_but_capitalism_1.html

 

[JimG]

“The bishops believe the government is failing to learn the lesson of the credit crunch – the lesson being that a financial system based on indebtedness is doomed to collapse – and are repeating the mistakes that produced the current collapse.”
I’m no economist, but I think the bishops may be on to something here. The whole idea of working from the ‘demand’ side to stimulate the economy by encouraging consumer spending (and giving them money and credit to spend) does seem rather like what got us into the mess in the first place.

Further, I don’t believe that capitalism requires the maintenance of unlimited consumer spending.

It seems to me that fiscal policy (i.e. Keynesian policies) worked better when there was some flexibility in the federal budgets. Now, deficits are so huge that there is no more flexibility.

We didn’t worry so much about borrowing from future generations when the population was booming. Now, populations are either declining or not growing at a sufficient rate. Populations are aging. Future generations won’t be able to repay the enormous bailout funds now being spent.

Governments are trying to re-enact FDR’s New Deal, but it may not work this time. While trying to avoid deflation and depression, we might instead be catapulted into hyperinflation.

 

[MALACHYONE]

“The bishops believe the government is failing to learn the lesson of the credit crunch – the lesson being that a financial system based on indebtedness is doomed to collapse – and are repeating the mistakes that produced the current collapse.”
I’m no economist, but I think the bishops may be on to something here. The whole idea of working from the ‘demand’ side to stimulate the economy by encouraging consumer spending (and giving them money and credit to spend) does seem rather like what got us into the mess in the first place.

Further, I don’t believe that capitalism requires the maintenance of unlimited consumer spending.

It seems to me that fiscal policy (i.e. Keynesian policies) worked better when there was some flexibility in the federal budgets. Now, deficits are so huge that there is no more flexibility.

We didn’t worry so much about borrowing from future generations when the population was booming. Now, populations are either declining or not growing at a sufficient rate. Populations are aging. Future generations won’t be able to repay the enormous bailout funds now being spent.

Governments are trying to re-enact FDR’s New Deal, but it may not work this time. While trying to avoid deflation and depression, we might instead be catapulted into hyperinflation.

Obvious things, like our greed, must be addressed. So, to come out of this will take alot of the dynamic participation of individuals like we had in WWII, and to some extent, during the Great Depression. It was our thinking, our spirit and patriotism. Silly little things like Victory Gardens in WWII, and picnics with the neighbors during the Great D.

When a working program to get us out of this is devised, ie, jobs whereby our people get money to buy things WITHIN THEIR BUDGETS I am convinced we must, this time, have this “other thing”.

This “other thing” is moral virtues like genuinely caring about neighbors, the jobless, about employees and those honest and sharing people who will henceforth run our companies.

This time: Morality. Before: Amorality

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have no pretense to expertise in economics. But since this is an open forum, I will say the following:

It has never made much sense to me that those “in the know” would simultaneously encourage consumer spending and watch it carefully as if it was the end-all and be-all, and also bemoan the low savings rate in the U.S.

The Fed will pump up the money supply in order to encourage consumption, then we all hear that everyone is over-leveraged. Everyone panics and the financial roof caves in.

I realize retailers of all sorts engage psychologists to work up sales allure and that sort of thing. I am not sure whether those psychologists who talk about “spending disorders” are really onto a genuine diagnosable syndrome, but I will say that if it one, it surely outranks the common cold in its number of victims.

We talk about a “minimum wage” and a “living wage” and “poverty level” and things like that. Yet one sees all around, people whose earnings are “poverty level” that live reasonably well, while some who make much more go bankrupt.

I do think the bishops are onto something. It’s a shame we don’t hear consumerism attacked in the pulpit continuously.

 

[grampben]

I do think the bishops are onto something. It’s a shame we don’t hear consumerism attacked in the pulpit continuously.

It’s happening in England all the time now, but I reckon they are speaking out so loudly because they have to, these days the church only gets noticed if it’s controversial.
The reason capitalism isn’t the perfect system is because of human greed and consumerism. The bishops seem to be saying that it is human actions with capitalism that are evil, as appose to capitalism itself. I hope however that they stick to the moral aspect of it, and don’t start discussing economics more than religion!

 

[Mark77]

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and and where thieves do not break in and steal. FOR WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS THERE WILL YOUR HEART BE ALSO”. Mt 5:19-21.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark