Bishops to vote on ending 'Christ has died, Christ is risen...' memorial acclamation

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"…Another item on the bishops’ agenda for Friday would ban an acclamation from the mass. If accepted, Catholics would no longer recite the words: “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”

Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pa., who chairs the liturgy committee, said the “Christ has died” language is “much beloved” by Catholic faithful, but theologically incorrect.

The refrain–a “memorial acclamation”–comes after the consecration of the bread and wine for the Eucharist.

It has been used in Catholic churches for at least 30 years, but elements of it can be traced throughout church history and worship. It is also common in Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist Communion rites.

Trautman suggested using another familiar refrain: “Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life. Lord Jesus, come in glory.”
Full article (scroll to bottom of page)
 
Last Sunday I was pondering this particular acclamation and thinking how a non-Catholic could interpret wrongly by those words what was and was not actually taking place.

By saying Christ has died…at that particular time, a person not well instructed in the Mass, could wrongly think that those participating in Mass actually believed that at that very moment of consecration Christ was crucified again, and at that very moment, Christ rose again to heaven…as if the Mass was recrucifying Christ at every Mass which is NOT what happens and is NOT what the Apostles taught nor what the Church teaches.

(The Church teaches that we, the ministerial priest and we the members of Christ’s Body and priesthood of believers, enter into Christ’s once and for all sacrifice at Calvary and God allows us to offer with Christ, Who is continually interceding for us in Heaven his sacrifice (check out Hebrews) Jesus Christ always was, is and ever shall be…

Thanks for sharing this article.
D
 
stumbler said:
"…Another item on the bishops’ agenda for Friday would ban an acclamation from the mass. If accepted, Catholics would no longer recite the words: “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”

Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pa., who chairs the liturgy committee, said the “Christ has died” language is “much beloved” by Catholic faithful, but theologically incorrect.

The refrain–a “memorial acclamation”–comes after the consecration of the bread and wine for the Eucharist.

It has been used in Catholic churches for at least 30 years, but elements of it can be traced throughout church history and worship. It is also common in Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist Communion rites.

Trautman suggested using another familiar refrain: “Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life. Lord Jesus, come in glory.”
Full article (scroll to bottom of page)
Click to expand...

It should be banned entirely. It was not part of previous masses and I would dispute its being “much loved” given the way it is drearily recited in most churches where I have attended mass. It appears to have been included to con the people into believing they were “participating” in the Consecration. It interrupts the flow of the prayer, is theologically uninteresting and disturbs the mood of contemplation of Christ’s great sacrifice and Gift to us.

Get rid of it altogether I say
 
I have thought that the acclamation “When we eat this bread …” was potentially confusing as well. Not that the words are unscriptural, but that the Real Presence is seemingly denied by use of Paul’s metaphor.
 
How about “Lord, by your cross and resurrection, you have set us free, you are the Savior of the world”?
 
I never thought “Christ has died; Christ is risen; Christ will come again” was theologically incorrect. After all, all three phrases are true! 2hearts has a good point though. Even if it were correct, I do not like this acclamation. Especially compared to the other three, it is quite bland and fails to appreciate the power of the just-occurred concecration.
Code: 
Moreover, it is my understanding that this phrase is not even part of the Latin 1970 Missal, let alone the 2002 version. It was added in English by ICEL "translators" in the 1970's. The new proposed translation omits it in favor of the other three. 

 If Bishop Trautman is opposed to this acclamation, one would think its days are numbered.  How much more "study" will be needed, though?
-Illini
 
As long as they are voting on doing away with parts of the Mass, why not get rid of the phrase, “For thine is kingdom, the power, and glory, etc”. Being a pre-vatican 2 catholic, I never have gotten used to this phrase.
 
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davy39:
As long as they are voting on doing away with parts of the Mass, why not get rid of the phrase, “For thine is kingdom, the power, and glory, etc”. Being a pre-vatican 2 catholic, I never have gotten used to this phrase.
Click to expand...
I usually don’t comment on my own post, but where did “For thine is the kingdom, etc” come from, and when was it added to the Mass prayers?
 
I follow my shephard – the bishops. Whatever they decide, I will accept.
 
stumbler said:
"…The refrain–a “memorial acclamation”–comes after the consecration of the bread and wine for the Eucharist.

It has been used in Catholic churches for at least 30 years, but elements of it can be traced throughout church history and worship. It is also common in Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist Communion rites.
Click to expand...

“Christ has died…” is not even a part of the official Latin version of the Holy Mass. It was added in the 1960’s by the ICEL. Even today, if you look at the current Ordo of Mass in Latin, you’ll notice that it’s conspicuously absent.

That’s why the ICEL is repeatedly getting its collective butt chewed out by the Congregation for Divine Worship. They add original texts to the Mass (and other rites) without any prior approval whatsoever. Then they get all in a bind when they’re told not to do it.

In Manibus Dei,
  • mike
P.S. - “For Thine is the Kingdom…” is an ancient liturgical response used by the early Christians in worship. It was written into the margins of many of the liturgical books and Scripture manuscripts, but was mistakenly added to the actual texts at some point in time.

Most current editions of the New Testament have removed these incorrect additions.
 
Yes, not even sure why they are voting on this issue. This particular wording has to go; it is not in order with the new, revised GIRM and the then Cardinal Ratzinger, as head of the Congregation of the Faith, said it had to go.

We have to say, many beautiful things came out of Vatican II. The RCIA is a truly great gift to the entire Church. But the Liturgical reforms were a ‘dogs breakfast’ and, at best, must be considered as ‘work in progress’.
 
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davy39:
As long as they are voting on doing away with parts of the Mass, why not get rid of the phrase, “For thine is kingdom, the power, and glory, etc”…
Click to expand...
(I think I quoted the wrong post of your two) This phrase appeared in many ancient manuscripts as part of the “Our Father.” The Catholic translations do not include it because it is deemed fo be part of early Christian liturgy that made its way from the margin to the text of maunscripts.
 
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davy39:
I usually don’t comment on my own post, but where did “For thine is the kingdom, etc” come from, and when was it added to the Mass prayers?
Click to expand...
That is actually a doxology from the Didache, which was an ECF liturgical book. It is not canon…and yet the translators of the KJV apparently took it upon themselves to add it to the Our Father text in Matthew 6:13. Go figure that… :eek:
Pax tecum,
 
I did not realize that it appeared in the didache, that makes it very early. I did know that it has been in continous use in the Eastern liturgy of St John Chrysostom (by the way, there have always been Eastern Catholics somewhere).

In the Greek/Byzantine style it always addresses the full Trinity as such: For thine is the kingdom, and the power and the glory,*** of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. (**or: now and forever in ICELspeak)

***Also, it is always intoned by the celebrant, not the people. It is not a part of the PaterNoster, but a doxology excaimed in conclusion.
 
stumbler said:
"…Another item on the bishops’ agenda for Friday would ban an acclamation from the mass. If accepted, Catholics would no longer recite the words: “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”

Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pa., who chairs the liturgy committee, said the “Christ has died” language is “much beloved” by Catholic faithful, but theologically incorrect.

The refrain–a “memorial acclamation”–comes after the consecration of the bread and wine for the Eucharist.

It has been used in Catholic churches for at least 30 years, but elements of it can be traced throughout church history and worship. It is also common in Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist Communion rites.

Trautman suggested using another familiar refrain: “Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life. Lord Jesus, come in glory.”
Full article (scroll to bottom of page)
Click to expand...

I wonder when most of these USA Bishops will abide by ROME’s dictates instead of the “American Church’s”?
 
Two questions (one pertinent and one personal),

Why is the memorial acclimation “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again” Theologically incorrect? It may be liturgically misplaced, but it seems theologically correct to me.

Why do so many of us hold such vitriolic sentiments for my beloved bishop?

Christ’s Peace,
 
It is not theologically incorrect. However, the bishops have the authority to make liturgical changes as long as they remain in union with tradition. As a member of the flock, I follow the bishops.
 
stumbler said:
"…Another item on the bishops’ agenda for Friday would ban an acclamation from the mass. If accepted, Catholics would no longer recite the words: “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”

Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pa., who chairs the liturgy committee, said the “Christ has died” language is “much beloved” by Catholic faithful, but theologically incorrect.

The refrain–a “memorial acclamation”–comes after the consecration of the bread and wine for the Eucharist.

It has been used in Catholic churches for at least 30 years, but elements of it can be traced throughout church history and worship. It is also common in Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist Communion rites.

Trautman suggested using another familiar refrain: “Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life. Lord Jesus, come in glory.”
Click to expand...

This is remarkable. When we tried to get the use of Sanctus bells re-introduced at our parish, we were told (incorrectly) that the vocal memorial acclamation took the place of the bells. Now this.
 
This is a wider issue than the american bishops.

What they are discussing is the Vox Clara initiated new translation of the Mass into English - correcting the poor translation that ICEL made.

The new translation, including removing this acclamation, will be for all English speaking countries (USA, Canada, Australia etc).

At this point in time no individual bishop or group of bishops has the authority to add/remove anything including this acclamation.
 
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