Bishops too involved in US Politics?

[CMatt25]

Matt, be careful.
You don’t have has much room to wiggle as you may think regarding Church teachings - but only if you want to be a Catholic.

I think you meant to say but only** if **I wanted to be a 100% fully perfectly practicing Catholic. But that’s ok. I find CAF Catholics often get the Church definition of Catholic wrong. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Be careful that you do not misinterpret Jesus.
He said we (individuals)must be charitable, not an organization, or government.
He put the responsibility squarely on each of us (as iindividuals) to the best of our ability.

And when individuals fail and a govt has to assume a role, render unto Caesar. God bless you and peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Where does Christ mention universal health care.

Let me see I can follow you:

The Church is wrong about abortion
The Church is wrong about homosexuality
The Church is wrong about how one is saved
You know this because Christ personally revealed it to you
You are a staunch Catholic

Estesbob, if you can’t understand what taking care of the sick means then you certainly can’t understand where Christ mentioned universal healthcare.

Baptized, confirmed, catechized, not ignorant. Staunch Catholic? When did I say that?

 

[estesbob]

Baptized, confirmed, catechized, not ignorant. Staunch Catholic? When did I say that?

And still attending Sunday Mass and supporting your Parish?

 

[CMatt25]

Sorry if I am coming late to the party but you do realize that …

1. 
   *] In Matt. 16:19 & 18:18 the Church is given Christ’s authority to make visible decisions on earth that WILL BE ratified in heaven.
   
   Thus, we know that the position of Christ and the position of the Church on matters of faith and morals will ALWAYS be the SAME.
   
   *] Rejecting a fundamental teaching of the Church is called “Hersey” per Church Canon Law §751 …
   Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.
   
   *] “Heretics” are AUTOMATICLY excommunicated from the Catholic Church as declared in Canon 1364 §1 …
   “an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.”
   
   *]And keep in mind that your own quote from St. Thomas Aquinas demonstrate that those who are excommunicated DO “perish” and are not saved …
   “It is better to perish in excommunication than to violate one’s conscience.” (St. Thomas Aquinas)
   
   … Wouldn’t it then be better to get one’s conscience in line with Church Teaching? After all, doesn’t the infallible Word of God refer to the Church as the defender of the truth? (1 Timothy 3:15). How could the defender of the truth teach something that was wrong?

1. 
   I realize that is the Catholic Church’s interpretation of itself. And I understand excommunicated Catholics supposedly can’t partake in the Sacraments or lector, serve Holy Communion, etc. But by Church definition, while excommunicated, outside full communion, and whatever else you wish to say about them, are still a Catholic. So I’m sorry but I miss your point.

 

[CMatt25]

CMatt25 says he meets the definiition of a Catholic but , in his posts, invokes Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidelis while questioning the Church’s teachings on a variety of issues. I suspect he is a Baptized Catholic who no longer attends.

You only partially suspect correctly.

 

[CMatt25]

And still attending Sunday Mass and supporting your Parish?

Estesbob now you’re suspecting something else.

 

[estesbob]

You only partially suspect correctly.

Do you really beleive it gives you more crediblity when you come into these forums and lecture us on the shortcomings of the Chruch while lisitng yourself as a Catholic?

 

[CMatt25]

Do you really beleive it gives you more crediblity when you come into these forums and lecture us on the shortcomings of the Chruch while lisitng yourself as a Catholic?

Sigh. Estesbob I claim no greater nor less credibility than anyone else on the forum. I actually wish you would return to the topic which is not me.

 

[estesbob]

Sigh. Estesbob I claim no greater nor less credibility than anyone else on the forum. I actually wish you would return to the topic which is not me.

The topic has been beaten to death. we explain the teachings of the Church, you tell us the Church is wrong. Do you bleieve that misleading people is the equivalnce of lying?

 

[CMatt25]

The topic has been beaten to death. we explain the teachings of the Church, you tell us the Church is wrong. Do you bleieve that misleading people is the equivalnce of lying?

If someone were to be misleading it could be. Depends on the circumstances. What does that have to do with whether someone believes the bishops are too involved in politics? You might believe they are too involved on social justice issues regarding the poor, the immigrant or what have you. But you might believe their level of involvement on abortion and gays is right on. I believe otherwise. God bless you in your beliefs and peace.

 

[estesbob]

If someone were to be misleading it could be. Depends on the circumstances. What does that have to do with whether someone believes the bishops are too involved in politics? You might believe they are too involved on social justice issues regarding the poor, the immigrant or what have you. But you might believe their level of involvement on abortion and gays is right on. I believe otherwise. God bless you in your beliefs and peace.

Instead of looking for an honest debatd you deliberately misled people. Im done with you.

 

[CMatt25]

Instead of looking for an honest debatd you deliberately misled people. Im done with you.

Estesbob, I am truly sorry if you feel you were misled. But never have I meant to mislead you or anyone. I am a Catholic as defined by the Church so I know you can’t mean that. And while I certainly don’t claim to know everything, if someone wants to know Church teaching on something, lets just say for example on the political issue of abortion, to stay somewhat on topic, I can give it to them if that is the question. But if someone asks a question such as whether bishops are too involved in politics, then I simply discuss my beliefs. In this case the question was not whether the Church’s US bishops believe they are too involved. It was whether we believe they are. And I do believe they are too involved on certain issues today at the expense of others issues. We may not agree on which issues they should be the most involved in but that is not misleading you. God bless you and peace be with you always.

Your brother in Christ, CMatt25

 

[Sir_Knight]

I realize that is the Catholic Church’s interpretation of itself. And I understand excommunicated Catholics supposedly can’t partake in the Sacraments or lector, serve Holy Communion, etc. But by Church definition, while excommunicated, outside full communion, and whatever else you wish to say about them, are still a Catholic. So I’m sorry but I miss your point.

My point is that in order to be saved from the fires of hell, a Catholic can not reject any Church teaching …
“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.” (SOURCE: Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 39)

 

[CMatt25]

My point is that in order to be saved from the fires of hell, a Catholic can not reject any Church teaching …
"Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity." (SOURCE: Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 39)

Sir Knight, thank you so much. I’ve been trying elsewhere on the forum to get an answer as to whether the Catholic Church judges and I have received mixed responses. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. God bless you and peace.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I think the bishops should be more involved because every issue is also a Christian issue.
And of curse they are socialistic because socialism and communism has its original in Christianity.
The history of communism is that some people saw in the Bible the economy in the first Christian community and invented the idea of communism but unfortunately Marx made communism atheistic.

Yeah, too bad how that political agenda has been responsible for the slaughter of billions.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Estesbob, I am truly sorry if you feel you were misled. But never have I meant to mislead you or anyone. I am a Catholic as defined by the Church so I know you can’t mean that. And while I certainly don’t claim to know everything, if someone wants to know Church teaching on something, lets just say for example on the political issue of abortion, to stay somewhat on topic, I can give it to them if that is the question. But if someone asks a question such as whether bishops are too involved in politics, then I simply discuss my beliefs. In this case the question was not whether the Church’s US bishops believe they are too involved. It was whether we believe they are. And I do believe they are too involved on certain issues today at the expense of others issues. We may not agree on which issues they should be the most involved in but that is not misleading you. God bless you and peace be with you always.

Your brother in Christ, CMatt25

You cannot be Catholic and reject Church teachings on the mortal sin of abortion-on-demand. Period, end of sentence.

For some reason I am reminded of the guy who kept saying this current regime is the most pro-life, ever.

 

[CMatt25]

You cannot be Catholic and reject Church teachings on the mortal sin of abortion-on-demand. Period, end of sentence.

For some reason I am reminded of the guy who kept saying this current regime is the most pro-life, ever.

Sailor, I’ll look for your new definition of Catholic coming soon to the Catholic Church printing presses anytime now. God bless you and peace.

 

[Sir_Knight]

How can you be a member of a group but believe something that is the exact opposite of what the group officially claims to believe?

 

[diggerdomer]

Everyone on this thread might be interested in what the New Archbishop of LA has to say about this.
I just posted it.

Unlike Mahoney -
the good Archbishop will not be:
calling Americans Nazi’s;
incite people to march against the Governments;
and let them break the US laws if they come to him for advice.

Politics is for lay people. Right down the middle with teachings of CCC, 2nd Edition.
And the Archbishop has dual citizenship - part American and part Mexican - so no one can call him prejudiced.
Thank you Pope Benedict.

Who are you to judge which Bishops to follow?