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on_the_hill
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Or as Wimpy would say it, “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.”:twocents: Don’t take any wooden nickles!
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GEddie
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“A nickel ain’t worth a dime anymore”:twocents: Don’t take any wooden nickles!
– Yogi Berra
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Luigi_Daniele
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I’m surprised that you went there. Nobody does anymore. Too crowded.
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Luigi_Daniele
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But wouldn’t a hacker be able to “make” money, therefore having the black market again?
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GEddie
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Abba
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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
It looks like this may change. Microsoft and… company have invested millions.
This is what I tell my kids. The land is not going any where (just don’t buy too close to the shore in case the ice melts or on top of an earthquake zone) and will always maintain some value. It should be a major part of a good portfolio.
I think it’s okay to play with, let’s say 30% or 20% or 10% overall. I am not saying that I would invest 30% of a portfolio on bitcoins but I would play with up to 30% on non-real state etc investments.
I am still looking into crypto currencies. I do think there is something interesting going on there and this is the time to figure it out.
I was raising children and chickens in the country side with no internet and I missed the whole internet revolution thing. I think I am coming in late on this but not too late. You just have to be willing to lose what you put in.
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phillylawyer
Guest
The real question with bitcoin is, what is it that you are buying? You are buying an electronic asset, but why does it have value? It doesn’t have any material value (such as bread, or a computer, or a car), but value based purely on speculative demand.
So, the question is, what is to keep this value based on speculative demand from bursting, just like it did for the Dutch Tulip bubble.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Maybe the demand for bitcoin will continue to grow and the value will continue to increase. But, you have to be confident that demand will continue indefinitely (or as long as you plan to hold it as an investment) for a product without any inherent value (just value based on pure speculative demand).
Right now speculative demand has increased it’s value because of (1) it’s usefulness in money laundering and the drug trade and (2) excitement and hype among those who don’t trust fiat money (which is ironic, because bitcoin is the ultimate type of fiat money). I personally don’t have enough confidence to invest in it and would be worried the bubble would burst at any point, but apparently others are more confident. To each his own.
So, the question is, what is to keep this value based on speculative demand from bursting, just like it did for the Dutch Tulip bubble.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Maybe the demand for bitcoin will continue to grow and the value will continue to increase. But, you have to be confident that demand will continue indefinitely (or as long as you plan to hold it as an investment) for a product without any inherent value (just value based on pure speculative demand).
Right now speculative demand has increased it’s value because of (1) it’s usefulness in money laundering and the drug trade and (2) excitement and hype among those who don’t trust fiat money (which is ironic, because bitcoin is the ultimate type of fiat money). I personally don’t have enough confidence to invest in it and would be worried the bubble would burst at any point, but apparently others are more confident. To each his own.
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Deus_tecum
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Land can be a wasting asset due to property tax. If you live on it, is it worth it? Usually. If you make money from it, is it worth it? Probably. Will it always go up in value? Sometimes.
Can it go down in value? Sometimes.
Can it go down in value? Sometimes.
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Abba
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Here is a good website that gives the live value of crypto currencies. Yeah, you will see a lot of that volatility Petaro mentioned.
bitcoinbnk.com/
bitcoinbnk.com/coin/bitcoin
bitcoinbnk.com/
bitcoinbnk.com/coin/bitcoin
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Abba
Guest
Personally, I think the world we live in today is showing us the contrary. Today, with a Paypal account you can buy anything from website traffic (www.cloudvisitors.com), hosting and domain registration (www.bonazur.com), airline tickets (www.usairways.com) anything you want on Ebay (www.ebay.com) which owns Paypal and it just goes on. Amazon (www.amazon.com) does not accept Paypal because it is a competitor and it’s pushing it’s on payment payway. But, when you think about it, the Paypal account is like an account in the clouds. You never see the money really, it’s an account in the internet that goes up and down.
The Winklevoss twins invested $11,000,000 on bitcoins: youtube.com/watch?v=1oGuKEazS5o
I may just buy a couple of bitcoins at the best price I can. I’m going to keep an eye out for the right price. I’m going to check out the other crypto currencies and pick a good one that seem to have potential for the future and mine some. Those can still be mined because the program is not that advanced. It won’t cause much and I just have some of these currencies in a wallet and if it goes up great and if it doesn’t not much is lost.
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smichhertz
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Deus_tecum
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I don’t know much about bitcoin, but in regard to paypal, back when I did ebay stuff, I could transfer money from paypal to my regular bank account and then withdraw cash. When you say you never see the money in paypal, it is no different than someone who uses a debit card from their bank. They don’t see the physical money but they can if they want. Same with paypal.
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Abba
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This went right over my head, I looked up the language and what it all means and I still can’t figure it out.
I knew when I put a laughing smiley after some of Petaro’s comments (jokes to me) that some people would wonder where is the funny stuff.
Sometimes, I burst out laughing at a funny joke and my sons look at each other wondering (but in a funny way) and pause, shrug and say: Old People’s joke.
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phillylawyer
Guest
I agree that since we left the gold standard, we have seen that physical currency does not need to be based on physical material goods (I know, I know, Ron and Rand Paul would disagree). Intangible assets can and do maintain their value over extended periods of time.
My issue with bitcoins is not that it is an intangible asset, but what it is backed by. U.S. dollars are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. The Australian dollar by the Australian government, etc. An intangible currency is only as stable as the stability of the entity backing it up. So, Zimbabwe dollars were only as stable as the Zimbabwean government backing them in the 1990’s. This meant that as the government crashed, the value of the dollar crashed, leading to hyperinflation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe
With bitcoins, there is nothing backing up the bitcoin. This essentially means it is not an intangible currency, but an intangible commodity, whose value is entirely based on speculative demand. I am not confident enough in the continued strength of this speculative demand to invest in it over the long term. But, maybe I will be wrong.
Cheers.
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on_the_hill
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Plus, they’re not making it anymore.
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Abba
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Neither do I, Deus tecum. I just got a tip on this about four days ago from a serious person. I thought, what?
Bitcoins? I am sharing it hear with the CAF community. I was actually hoping that there would be someone who was mining here who could share some information. But, that’s no biggy because all the information needed is in the net.January 2013 I was working with a British man on a project. He suggested bitcoin mining to me and explained enough for me to say: no thanks. It seemed like child’s play to me. On another occasion, last autumn after the Silk Road situation, someone offered to dump some bitcoins to me for an exchange.
I said; no, that I only accept American Dollars. I now wish that I had set up the mining program on my computer back in January 2013 and that I had made the exchange with a bitcoin per few bucks. I would be sitting pretty right now.Regarding the withdrawing, people are doing that with bitcoins. There are people who have already become millionaires in American Dollars with bitcoins. You can buy and sell at www.bitstamp.net and www.coinbase.com So, you withdraw by selling. If you buy a bitcoin for $200 and you want to sell it at $1,000 then you just wait or sell it at the current rate which right now is $580 or you may think that it is going up to $40,000 each as the Winklevoss twins and when and if it does (20, 40, 50 year?) then you sell it then.
An advantage of bitcoin is that it is the first internet currency. The bottom line is that it is speculation, as someone noted here, not an investment really. Mind you, I am willing to take part in this mining and crypto currency thing but with a lot of precaution. I will put in what I am willing to lose. And, mining some of the new ones looks like all it takes is simply downloading the program to your computer and it just does it on automatic.I still don’t know how it works, it seems like you have to join a ‘pool’ - so like a group in the ‘network’ and the computers resolve the problems and it your pool resolves the problem and a coin is minted then all the members of the ‘pool’ get a piece of the coin.
I am not a programmer and I do not know much in that respect. I just don’t know how people can be so certain that some people could not make the whole system crash or erase all the accounts etc… So, I would just play with it like that British man and if I can make some serious money, great, if not, that’s fine too. It’s a strange thing but it does have it’s advantages (international money transfer with no fees - ta, ta, Western Union).
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PaulGH
Guest
Regarding mining, my understanding is that as time passes, the amount of processing power and the amount of time required to mine one bitcoin continues to increase. And, if I understand correctly, it has already gotten to the point that an average person with a decent desktop computer cannot cost-effectively mine bitcoins. But I would advise you to research this on your own to be sure.
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Abba
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Hi Dedo,
Thanks for the current Journal article. Hey, that peculiar book I recommended to you years ago because of your interest in crowd behavior, is being semi-quoted on the link you provided. Amazing!
I agree with Buffet’s strategy, as well. Bitcoins is pure speculation and there is nothing really substantial. However, I think as long as a small percentage of a portfolio is used there is nothing wrong with taking an educated risk that may leave good returns. Actually, the same people who suggested Bitcoins to me a few days ago, suggested Gold some years back, right before it started going straight up and fast. I did not have the money to invest in Gold,I would have quadrupled my investment. Gold is the same as Bitcoins - pure speculation.
I’m a tiny, incy-wincy investor, I found a good place to buy, the first bitcoin exchange based in Japan mt.gox.com, and I’ll buy some and let it sit for a while. If the price is right in five years, I’ll sell out or if it is looking pretty, I’ll keep it a while longer. I think with speculative investments is good to get out while the going is good and place the funds in a more reliable and secure place.
It’s been fun looking into this exactly because it is all so radical.
Cheers
Tulip mania…the 1637 event was popularized in 1841 by the book Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, written by British journalist Charles Mackay. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
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Deus_tecum
Guest
Thank you. I understand bitcoin a bit better now. I visited those sites. Personally I would not be a buyer after looking at the chart for it. It peaked on 11/29/13 and has been falling since. Volume in bitcoin transactions is also dropping and last Sunday was the volume low of the year (2-16-14). This suggests a downward trend.Neither do I, Deus tecum. I just got a tip on this about four days ago from a serious person. I thought, what?
January 2013 I was working with a British man on a project. He suggested bitcoin mining to me and explained enough for me to say: no thanks. It seemed like child’s play to me. On another occasion, last autumn after the Silk Road situation, someone offered to dump some bitcoins to me for an exchange.
Regarding the withdrawing, people are doing that with bitcoins. There are people who have already become millionaires in American Dollars with bitcoins. You can buy and sell at www.bitstamp.net and www.coinbase.com So, you withdraw by selling. If you buy a bitcoin for $200 and you want to sell it at $1,000 then you just wait or sell it at the current rate which right now is $580 or you may think that it is going up to $40,000 each as the Winklevoss twins and when and if it does (20, 40, 50 year?) then you sell it then.
An advantage of bitcoin is that it is the first internet currency. The bottom line is that it is speculation, as someone noted here, not an investment really. Mind you, I am willing to take part in this mining and crypto currency thing but with a lot of precaution. I will put in what I am willing to lose. And, mining some of the new ones looks like all it takes is simply downloading the program to your computer and it just does it on automatic.I still don’t know how it works, it seems like you have to join a ‘pool’ - so like a group in the ‘network’ and the computers resolve the problems and it your pool resolves the problem and a coin is minted then all the members of the ‘pool’ get a piece of the coin.
I am not a programmer and I do not know much in that respect. I just don’t know how people can be so certain that some people could not make the whole system crash or erase all the accounts etc… So, I would just play with it like that British man and if I can make some serious money, great, if not, that’s fine too. It’s a strange thing but it does have it’s advantages (international money transfer with no fees - ta, ta, Western Union).
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phillylawyer
Guest
The price of gold is certainly based partially (maybe largely) on speculation. However, it’s certainly not “pure” speculation. Gold is a physical material with real, tangible uses, whereas bitcoins are, well, purely technological constructs.Hi Dedo,
Gold is the same as Bitcoins - pure speculation.
I’m not a big fan of investing in gold either, but it’s not quite analogous to investing in bitcoins.
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