Black Catholic Church?

[Des]

Has anyone ever heard about the Black Catholic Church?

Isn’t this a little dangerous to start sepertating Catholic Churches based on ones Culture?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Des:

Has anyone ever heard about the Black Catholic Church?

Isn’t this a little dangerous to start sepertating Catholic Churches based on ones Culture?

Dear Des,

Yes, and dare I say, maybe so. Not that particular one, but I’ve heard of them.

I have visited a black Catholic church and even played piano for rehearsals for their wonderful choir. They even have hymn books specially made for them with a fascinating history about how gospel singing evolved from slave songs.

Dangerous? In general I am conflicted about the whole “multicultural” mentality. For example, at our parish we have special days where we celebrate the Asians or the Hispanics and on those days the kids in school get to dress up in clothing of their culture. They sing songs and read scriptures in those languages. We do this to make all cultures feel welcome here. While the Masses are beautiful and fascinating, the white children feel left out. Those in those cultures seem to appreciate it because they say they feel alien to our culture in general. The other day I was talking about this to a relative and he said, “this never was a problem until they started having the Mass in the vernacular.”

Alan

 

[Faithful_2_Rome]

I think I’ll petition Rome for permission to have a Catholic Church called the WHITE Catholic Church… wonder what they’ll say?

Maybe I’ll even petition some Orientals to ask for a YELLOW Catthoic Church as well.

 

[jmm08]

Des:

Has anyone ever heard about the Black Catholic Church?

Isn’t this a little dangerous to start sepertating Catholic Churches based on ones Culture?

Thanks for the link. Their web site has some good information and links in it as well.

Start? Where I grew up in Broome County New York State, there were Polish, Russian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, etc. Especially if you include various Orthodox, the Churches years ago were tied so closely with culture.

So now that some Blacks have a Catholic Church, it is time to get upset about being multicultural? But it was OK 50 years ago? No. We need to be patient.

Now that Mass is in the vernacular, those of us who never learned latin find it easier to become Roman Catholic. I think the situation is related to having Mass in the vernacular. And that it is a good thing. RCIA starts tomorrow night for me.

 

[Chris_in_Mich]

Des:

Has anyone ever heard about the Black Catholic Church?

Isn’t this a little dangerous to start sepertating Catholic Churches based on ones Culture?

There is always a danger of things being taken too far. Is there something specific on that site that you object to?

 

[Ahimsa]

jmm08:

Thanks for the link. Their web site has some good information and links in it as well.

Start? Where I grew up in Broome County New York State, there were Polish, Russian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, etc. Especially if you include various Orthodox, the Churches years ago were tied so closely with culture.

So now that some Blacks have a Catholic Church, it is time to get upset about being multicultural? But it was OK 50 years ago? No. We need to be patient.

The Broome County/Binghamton Ukrainians make the best piroggi. Or so says my Catholic ex-girlfriend (we talk every now and then).

Ahimsa

 

[Digitonomy]

I was supicious about this, especially after I couldn’t find any information on this parish at the Archdiocese of Chicago website. Now it’s possible that it’s a mission parish and not on their site, however “mission” is one of the categories on their parish directory search page.

My biggest concern is that it could be a part of George Stallings’s Imani Temple movement, where the now-excommunicated bishop established an “African-American Catholic Congregation” with a liturgy including some African and African-American music and practices.

The Holy Angels website makes no mention of Stallings, uses the word “Imani” (faith in Swahili) only in relation to its choir, and describes itself as an “African American Roman Catholic Church.” In addition, its history includes several priests from holy orders, including one or two whites. And its (http://www.holyangels.com/africian-american-bishops-copy(1).htm) of African-American bishops matches that of the USCCB.

It’s possible they were allied with the Imani Temple, but decided to distance themselves when Stallings apparently allied himself with the Moonies, getting married to a Japanese member of the Unification Church. In which case they are pretending unity with Rome, in the absence of any official recognition - and they may be ripe for re-entering the fold, through the proper channels.

However, I prefer to believe the Archdiocese of Chicago’s website is incomplete.

A couple follow-up issues:

1. A search for Imani Temple turns up a church in Temecula, CA. A Church of God in Christ, to be specific. Founded in 1991, a couple years after Stallings started his in DC. I wonder if they just couldn’t think of anything original, or if they were hoping to attract the attention of those looking for the schismatic Catholic group.
2. What is up with Catholic bishops and former bishops and the Moonies? Emmanuel Milingo, former archbishop of Zambia, got in hot water with the Vatican for marrying a Moonie bride - which he has since renounced.

 

[Des]

Chris in Mich:

There is always a danger of things being taken too far. Is there something specific on that site that you object to?

Just that it seem to put too much emphasis on the black culture. I understand the Church is universal however this one with the name alone can possibly keep other non-blacks away or start a trend possibly seperating the Catholic peoples in other areas even though we would be on the same page when it comes to the Faith. I really dont have an opinion whether it is right or wrong, i’m just a little suspicious of the consequenses it may bring.
I only started this topic to get others opinions, and mabe give me a better understanding of this, that’s all.

 

[Digitonomy]

digitonomy:

However, I prefer to believe the Archdiocese of Chicago’s website is incomplete.

I was checking out that site I linked above a little more carefully, and the search function doesn’t seem to work at all. So Holy Angels is probably legit. Hopefully someone from Chicago with knowledge can chime in here.

 

[Exporter]

Several years ago, on a news program, I saw what looked like a Catholic Church with an all Black congregation and clerics. They were singing and dancing. They were singing in Swahili. It was located in Wash. D.C. of I remember correctly.

I thought right then that the people who were attending were more interested in the spectacle than in what the Priest was saying. In my opinion, :tsktsk:

One earlier poster wondered if a “White Catholic Church” would get the O.K. from the Bishop, ( he said Rome). Personally, I think all of us should realise that we better get used to rubbing elbows with anyone. Why? I never did hear that in the spirit world there is “skin color”. Spirits don’t have bodies, do they?

 

[jmm08]

Des:

Just that it seem to put too much emphasis on the black culture. I understand the Church is universal however this one with the name alone can possibly keep other non-blacks away or start a trend possibly seperating the Catholic peoples in other areas even though we would be on the same page when it comes to the Faith. I really dont have an opinion whether it is right or wrong, i’m just a little suspicious of the consequenses it may bring.

I only started this topic to get others opinions, and mabe give me a better understanding of this, that’s all.

I’m not from Chicago. But I’ve been there. It is a large city. I have also visited NYC and Philadelphia. Some geographic areas of our major cities are predominantly Black.

And even if “Holy Angels Church” isn’t in a predominantly Black neighborhood. So what. Near my parents’ home is a Polish Catholic Church. It isn’t too from other Catholic Churches.

Why does one Black Catholic Church gets you upset, seeing that there are so many other ethnic Catholic Churches?

Note: I haven’t been to many Churches that would not welcome me or my family. I feel welcome at all Catholic Churches I’ve ever visited. I’ll bet if some White Catholic came to “Holy Angels Church” they would be so warmly welcomed.

 

[mark_a]

This would be a great idea here in the south.

In its effort to reach out to Blacks, the Diocese of Charleston newspaper has many articles concerning its past neglect of Blacks by the Church. Many Black Catholics were “abandoned” by the Church as priests were transfered away from the shrinking southern Catholic populations.

Any growth in communion w/ Rome seems like a good idea to me.

 

[Des]

jmm08:

And even if “Holy Angels Church” isn’t in a predominantly Black neighborhood. So what. Near my parents’ home is a Polish Catholic Church. It isn’t too from other Catholic Churches.

Why does one Black Catholic Church gets you upset, seeing that there are so many other ethnic Catholic Churches?

Note: I haven’t been to many Churches that would not welcome me or my family. I feel welcome at all Catholic Churches I’ve ever visited. I’ll bet if some White Catholic came to “Holy Angels Church” they would be so warmly welcomed.

I’m not upset at all. I actually never heard of Catholic Churches named after a race. Any race. Usually they are named after Saints, Holy Trinity, Immacualte Conception, or other names with meanings to equate them to the Church. I know this Church is named after the Angels but will they create a style that will take away from the Mass? Mabe I need to get out more.

 

[cecelia]

Let me just say; I am a black Catholic. And more than anything, more than anything, I do like like the hypenating of the Church by man-made labels. The last time I looked this is the Catholic – or universal Church-- and its being Catholic transcends any type of label. So to start viewing the Church through such a sociological/ideological lens is to me reductive, and I, for one, run away from such categories as fast as I can.
I identify myself as “Catholic,” proudly and staunchly, and I cringe when a priest for a parish feels it has to “tap into my cultural roots” in order to appeal to me. What exactly are my cultural roots? St. Ignatius, St. Cecelia, St. Charles Borremeo, St. Agnes, St. Anne, St. Edith Stein, St. Maximilian Kolbe. In short, my cultural background is Catholic and as such I share the same history and tradition as all other Catholics – past, present, and future.
It’ll be a shame to mimicking the secular culture by Balkanizing the Church. Do not do that. What the Church must do instead is to reemphasize its Catholicity. Indeed, a strong, muscular, audacious Catholic faith will attract every and all, especially in this time of moral relativism and secular humanism. The Church must not make the mistake of trying to acommodate itself to the various and sundry secular cultures. Quite frankly, the Church ends up looking ridiculous. I don’t like to see the priest with the “colors of Africa” on his vestments or trying to incorporate a gospel choir during Mass. Such gestures are too self-conscious and stilted. If I wanted that, I could get a much better performance from the local Baptist or Holy Roller Churches.
No, I actually get offended – I actually bristle – when someone tries to pigeonhole me as a “Black Catholic.” I don’t think of myself as a Black Catholic or a female Catholic or a Southern Catholic or any other such labels. I am Catholic, and as such I am able to be liberated from all the other restrictive labels. Being Catholic is liberating, but being a Black Catholic or an Irish Catholic, or an Italian, etc. restricts and places the emphasis on the first part of the label rather than on the second. Then, inevitably, the first part subsumes the second, and what do you have? You have the Catholic part of the equation just being a veneer for the first part, which is now primarily concerned with social justice issues, equality, civil rights and all the other distractions which keep one from truly practicing his or her Catholic faith.
So, at the risk of sounding redundant. Let us the Catholic Church not follow the cultural zeitgeist. Rather let us continue to be in the world but not of it by retaining our unity as the Catholic Church, One, Holy, and Apostolic.

 

[Des]

cecelia:

Let me just say; I am a black Catholic. And more than anything, more than anything, I do like like the hypenating of the Church by man-made labels. The last time I looked this is the Catholic – or universal Church-- and its being Catholic transcends any type of label. So to start viewing the Church through such a sociological/ideological lens is to me reductive, and I, for one, run away from such categories as fast as I can.
I identify myself as “Catholic,” proudly and staunchly, and I cringe when a priest for a parish feels it has to “tap into my cultural roots” in order to appeal to me. What exactly are my cultural roots? St. Ignatius, St. Cecelia, St. Charles Borremeo, St. Agnes, St. Anne, St. Edith Stein, St. Maximilian Kolbe. In short, my cultural background is Catholic and as such I share the same history and tradition as all other Catholics – past, present, and future.
It’ll be a shame to mimicking the secular culture by Balkanizing the Church. Do not do that. What the Church must do instead is to reemphasize its Catholicity. Indeed, a strong, muscular, audacious Catholic faith will attract every and all, especially in this time of moral relativism and secular humanism. The Church must not make the mistake of trying to acommodate itself to the various and sundry secular cultures. Quite frankly, the Church ends up looking ridiculous. I don’t like to see the priest with the “colors of Africa” on his vestments or trying to incorporate a gospel choir during Mass. Such gestures are too self-conscious and stilted. If I wanted that, I could get a much better performance from the local Baptist or Holy Roller Churches.
No, I actually get offended – I actually bristle – when someone tries to pigeonhole me as a “Black Catholic.” I don’t think of myself as a Black Catholic or a female Catholic or a Southern Catholic or any other such labels. I am Catholic, and as such I am able to be liberated from all the other restrictive labels. Being Catholic is liberating, but being a Black Catholic or an Irish Catholic, or an Italian, etc. restricts and places the emphasis on the first part of the label rather than on the second. Then, inevitably, the first part subsumes the second, and what do you have? You have the Catholic part of the equation just being a veneer for the first part, which is now primarily concerned with social justice issues, equality, civil rights and all the other distractions which keep one from truly practicing his or her Catholic faith.
So, at the risk of sounding redundant. Let us the Catholic Church not follow the cultural zeitgeist. Rather let us continue to be in the world but not of it by retaining our unity as the Catholic Church, One, Holy, and Apostolic.

:clapping: This is kind of how I feel fellow Catholic.

 

[jmm08]

Des:

I’m not upset at all. I actually never heard of Catholic Churches named after a race. Any race. Usually they are named after Saints, Holy Trinity, Immacualte Conception, or other names with meanings to equate them to the Church. I know this Church is named after the Angels but will they create a style that will take away from the Mass? Mabe I need to get out more.

The church in Chicago is named “Holy Angels Church”. Des had made an Internet link using the words “Black Catholic Church”. Click on the link.

The “Holy Angels Church” website describes them as An African American Roman Catholic Community. There are some Blacks (my wife included) who don’t like the phrase “African American”.

As for myself, I hope never to be pigeonholed. My own life has been so unique, that I would disbelieve my own existence before I could become an atheist.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen writes in his autobiography “Treasure in Clay”: The unconscious continuation of the Passion of Christ is in the hunger, destitution and loneliness of much of our community. Christ is present when people are crowded into the foul stench of the slums, when a race or color is persecuted because it comes from lowly Nazareth and whenever truth is crucified by a court that penalizes prayer.

I suppose that in certain geographic locations, Black Roman Catholics may find a Church such as “Holy Angels Church” to be such a sweet place. In addition to unimportant skin pigment, they share bonds of persecution. Persecution from other Blacks because to be Black and to be a Roman Catholic may seem quite odd. Persecution from non-Catholics for being Roman Catholic. And persecution from other races or ethnicities for being Black.

However, I think an ideal Church would be a mixed Roman Catholic congregation.

 

[Hesychios]

I remember this parish, I used to live on the south side of Chicago and made a habit of visiting different parishes on a regular basis.

Believe me, there is nothing here to  be concerned about.

This parish has been a resounding success, and yes it does reach out to the Black community. It is basically at the heart of the largest and oldest Black neighborhood in Chicago, and not all that far from the location of the original African American Catholic parish of Saint Monica’s, once pastored by Father Augustine Tolten, the first Black Catholic priest known in the United States (a former slave from Missouri), at 36th & Dearborn.

This parish once suffered with a tragic fire that burned the old Gothic masterpiece to the ground, all that was left was a section of stained glass window which was kept on display when I was there almost 10 years ago. The poor but faith-filled community was able to raise funds from all over the country and from major corporations. The new church is more modernistic “A”-frame style with exposed supports, not a favorite of mine but it kept the costs in line. There is a notable mural behind the altar, I had forgotten about the mural until I saw the thread and looked at their website.

I visited the parish right after Father Clements had left and Father Callicot was being introduced that day, Bishop Wilton Gregory was there on the occasion, as this was part of his Deanery in Chicago.

Father Clements is the well known priest who started the adoptions, one child - one parish. We all know who Bishop Gregory is these days.

Chicago is a city of neighborhoods, and celebrates it’s diversity. The Archdiocese has always had what were called national parishes. This was probably true elsewhere in the country too.

Part of the motivation for this was the ever-present danger of schism. The people needed good pastoral care and it took a few serious schism for the church to realize that these groups needed to be respectfully approached with clergy of their own culture, if possible. The hard line “my way or the highway” approach from American bishops caused the church to suffer some terrible schisms, such as the Polish National Catholic church, Lithuanians and major defections of networks of Byzantine Catholic parishes to the Orthodox.

I was baptized in a Polish parish (Roman Catholic), called Saint Casimir’s, the parish had no bounderies and was intended for Polish people. The neighborhood also had it’s “regular” parish, it had actual bounderies and was intended to be the ordinary parish for the neighborhood, but it was filled to the rafters with Polish people too!

Today Saint Casimir's is renamed after an Hispanic saint and is completely Mexican in composition.

I hope that this helps...

 

[Ahimsa]

Hesychios:

This parish has been a resounding success, and yes it does reach out to the Black community. It is basically at the heart of the largest and oldest Black neighborhood in Chicago, and not all that far from the location of the original African American Catholic parish of Saint Monica’s, once pastored by Father Augustine Tolten, the first Black Catholic priest known in the United States (a former slave from Missouri), at 36th & Dearborn.

I may be mistaken, but I thought the first Black Catholic priest in the U.S. was Father James Healy (ordained 1854 in Paris, France).

Healy’s brother, Father Patrick Francis Healy, became the first Black president of a major U.S. college, Georgetown University:

“******Father Patrick Francis Healy was the first black Jesuit and the first black president of a major college in the United States. Father Healy was born to a mulatto slave mother and an Irish father in 1834. His brother Father James Healy was the first black Catholic priest and bishop in America. Educated by Quakers, Father Patrick Healy received a bachelor s degree from Holy Cross College in 1850. He began teaching at Georgetown College in 1866 after studying in Europe. Eight years later he became its president. Father Healy left the College in 1882 and later returned in 1908 to the campus infirmary where he died. He is buried on the grounds of the University in the Jesuit cemetery.”

Ahimsa

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[DuMaurier]

If african americans feel more comfortable in a parish which more fully represents their culture then I don’t see anything wrong with that really. Just as long as everyone realizes we are part of a larger whole. As has been pointed out there are polish, ukranian, portguese, ect parishes which cater to the needs of those communities.

 

[Hesychios]

Ahimsa:

I may be mistaken, but I thought the first Black Catholic priest in the U.S. was Father James Healy (ordained 1854 in Paris, France).

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Ahimsa

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You make a great point!

Around Chicago I have never heard of Father Healy as the first black priest Around here we like the legend of Father Tolton

Although I remember reading about Healy as the bishop of Maine, come to think of it.

Anyway we are now in the grasp of a puzzle about these “firsts”.

First, one never knows the proper terminology to use any more. Many people object to the hyphenated label, and I don’t really blame them whether I understand it or not. I would rather use the terms people chose for themselves. But what constitutes a black in this context anyway?

Read this:

Father Augustine Tolton First Black Priest

Born a slave, condemned to a lifetime of frustration and failure, and even in death denied a burial spot all of his own – this was the story of Augustine Tolton, a native of Ralls County and the first full blooded Negro Catholic priest in the United States.
(snip)
Ironically, the prejudice that prevented this brilliant young man from studying for the priesthood in his own land was the cause of his being sent to the foremost college of the Catholic Church. Finding that he could not pursue his studies here, some of his priest benefactors found channels through which he might be sent to the College of Sacred Propaganda at Rome.

There, after six years, of study, Father Augustine Tolton was ordained a Catholic priest (1886). Receiving his priesthood from Cardinal Parocchi in St. John Lateran in Rome, the young prelate was informed that his mission was to be the Negroes of the United States.
I read somewhere long ago that he had wanted to go to Africa as a missionary, he certainly wouldn’t have been the first black Catholic priest there!

I point this out because the article says he was a “full blooded negro” vs the outdated but still precise “mulatto” (or “quadroon” as the case may be) classification of Father Healy. This was interesting to people because it was evidence of the Catholic church attracting an ethnic group that was not traditionally Catholic.

Secondly, if we should include mixed race individuals (I can’t see why not) I wouldn’t be surpised if there was an even earlier candidate for the title from Louisiana, if we can include Haiti, I think it is a sure thing that we will find an earlier candidate.

If people are only concerned with the “American” experience of a Protestant, English speaking USA where black Catholics have been a rarity in the past and still are a small percentage of the total population, then black means Black-American, or you-name-it-American. Isn’t this fun? I suppose that when people were using terms like Negro and Mulatto nobody imagined that they were both black.

But I concede your point, Healy was earlier by 32 years, since by today’s standards we might call him Black, not Irish.