Black Catholic Church?

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cecelia:
I am a black Catholic. Catholic transcends any type of label. So to start viewing the Church through such a sociological/ideological lens is to me reductive, and I, for one, run away from such categories as fast as I can. . . . What the Church must do instead is to reemphasize its Catholicity. . . .The Church must not make the mistake of trying to acommodate itself to the various and sundry secular cultures. Quite frankly, the Church ends up looking ridiculous. . . . No, I actually get offended – I actually bristle – when someone tries to pigeonhole me as a “Black Catholic.” I don’t think of myself as a Black Catholic or a female Catholic or a Southern Catholic or any other such labels. I am Catholic, and as such I am able to be liberated from all the other restrictive labels. . . . So, at the risk of sounding redundant. Let us the Catholic Church not follow the cultural zeitgeist. Rather let us continue to be in the world but not of it by retaining our unity as the Catholic Church, One, Holy, and Apostolic.
Dear Cecilia,

Who’s the second coolest Cardinal in the Church today? Arinze. Your case is clinched!
 
To Mercygate,
…and if the Holy Spirit, working through the papal conclave, sees fit to appoint Cardinal Arinze the next pope, let’s hope that he assumes the name of Pope Pius XIII. Cardinal Arinze is a cardinal who is Catholic to the core, not Black Catholic or Nigerian Catholic, or Third World Catholic…simply Catholic and as such he imparts the faith with vigor, passion, intellect, clarity, and certitude.
God Bless Cardinal Arinze, role model to us all!
 
I don’t know about the church that is being referred to in Chicago.

but, in general, I think the church is big enough to be multi-cultural and should accomodate different cultural views. I would especially relish some gospel-type music to supplement the anemic melodies that are served up to us.

I’ve heard Mass songs in English, Latin, Spanish, Greek, and Polka. The next door parish has a polka mass in their beer tent. Let’s not get our shorts tied too tightly in a knot.

I saw an ordinary Catholic parish church in Chicago which had a black crucifix suspended above the altar. This was a revolutionary hopeful symbol for me to see. What if we get to heaven and discover Jesus and the Virgin Mary are Black? Are you ready?
 
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BayCityRickL:
…What if we get to heaven and discover Jesus and the Virgin Mary are Black? Are you ready?
Hey. In my parish Church there is a painting of Madonna and Child. The painter is from the Caribbean and they are Black (but not too dark). My present opinion is that St. Mary was dark and beautiful. Why is the beautiful woman in Song of Soloman Black?

Read Matthew 25:34-40 – in part it reads –Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

The Jesus we need to minister to can take on many appearances. Sometimes He might be old, hard to understand, and stained from life-long tobacco use. Other times, He might be the baby being carried by a young Hispanic woman as you hold the door open for her to come into the post office. Maybe He is the child who was with the mother who cut in front of you at the check-out line at the grocery store. So be careful how you treat other people. I think God gives us many tests each day.
 
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Ahimsa:
The Broome County/Binghamton Ukrainians make the best piroggi. Or so says my Catholic ex-girlfriend (we talk every now and then).
Ahimsa,

Actually, the very best pierohi (authentic spelling 🙂 ) in Binghamton can be found at St. Michael’s Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Greek Catholic Church. 👍

Many years,

Neil
 
A great site on the history of Blacks in American Catholicism is at:

Black Catholics

My brother, Michael, is correct when he offers Father Tolten, of blessed memory, as the first Black priest in America. Today, the Healys, of blessed memory, are more frequently acknowledged as the first priests of mixed race. In their time, however, they were such a curiousity that the focus was on their Black parentage and that is how they were typically described.

As already mentioned, James was ordained to the episcopacy and Patrick became President of Georgetown University. Another brother, Sherwood, who sought and essentially succeeded in “passing” (as white), became the Rector of Boston’s Cathedral of the Holy Cross. If I remember correctly, two of their sisters entered the religious life as well.

Father Charles Uncles, of blessed memory, one of the founders of the Josephite Fathers, a congregation that did yeoman work in serving southern rural poor, both Blacks and Whites, was the first Black priest to actually be ordained in the US. Father Tolten and the Healys were all ordained abroad.

I’m not from Chicago (although it is my very favorite city in the US 😃 ) and my brother, Michael, does a wonderful job representing it here, as he does at our home Forum 👍 .
But, I’d like to throw in a comment about Holy Angels. Someone was concerned that they couldn’t locate it on the Archdiocese of Chicago’s website. It is there. Try this link:

Parish Directory - Holy Angel

Many years,

Neil
 
Is a large choir, situated behind the altar facing thier audience really an African-American custom, or is it a Baptist custom sneaking in through the back door? I have not been to a lot of black Baptist churches, but some, and have seen a lot more on TV and they all have large choirs situated behind the pulpit (no altars in Baptist churches) facing thier audiences.

What about what they sing? Are they singing african-american, Catholic hymns, or Baptist hymns.

It is no great secret that the vast majority of african-americans are baptists followed by Methodists.

If African-American Catholic churches are really following their own ethnic customs I find no fault. But if they are apeing the Baptists, Pentecostal, and Methodist churches they originally came from and did not fully convert to Catholic, I see a large problem with that.

I have never been to a black Catholic church, where I live their are hardly any black Catholics at all and they just attend their local parrish churches.
 
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boppysbud:
Is a large choir, situated behind the altar facing thier audience really an African-American custom, or is it a Baptist custom sneaking in through the back door? I have not been to a lot of black Baptist churches, but some, and have seen a lot more on TV and they all have large choirs situated behind the pulpit (no altars in Baptist churches) facing thier audiences.
I wouldn’t want to generalize about the placement of choirs, but the black Catholic parishes I have visited in my area favor large Gospel choirs.
What about what they sing? Are they singing african-american, Catholic hymns, or Baptist hymns.

It is no great secret that the vast majority of african-americans are baptists followed by Methodists.
Traditional Gospel hymns are OK if the lyrics reinforce Catholic teaching. The Gospel style is prevelant in the few predominately black Catholic parishes I have visited. But it shouldn’t be assumed that that is the only style of music they will use.
If African-American Catholic churches are really following their own ethnic customs I find no fault. But if they are apeing the Baptists, Pentecostal, and Methodist churches they originally came from and did not fully convert to Catholic, I see a large problem with that.

I have never been to a black Catholic church, where I live their are hardly any black Catholics at all and they just attend their local parrish churches.
One Baptist, Pentecostal, and Methodist custom I very much admire is the tendency to dress appropriately. The congregations usually are composed of a high percentage of people who were raised in those other churches and bring those good habits with them! Quite a few are involved in the church only because their children are enrolled in the school, others have long multi-generational affiliation with the Catholic church.

I think good catechesis is important everywhere. 🙂
 
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Des:
Just that it seem to put too much emphasis on the black culture. I understand the Church is universal however this one with the name alone can possibly keep other non-blacks away or start a trend possibly seperating the Catholic peoples in other areas even though we would be on the same page when it comes to the Faith. I really dont have an opinion whether it is right or wrong, i’m just a little suspicious of the consequenses it may bring.
I only started this topic to get others opinions, and mabe give me a better understanding of this, that’s all.
Then I assume you would have grave problems with polka masses, mariachi masses, and other variations that reflect the culture of the people worshipping in a particular parish. You would assume that a parish in Nigeria, Haiti or serving Australian native people should use precisely the same language, hymns, posture and traditions as the parish you grew up in in a suburb of Pittsburg, Detroit or St. Louis. We have a huge problem in the history of Christianity in confusing ethnicity with faith, and confusing cultural practices with rubric and doctrine, and defining the church hierarcy and governance in terms of the ruling government system in a particular time and place. That confusion is behind the split between the Latin and Orthodox Church, and the Protestant Reformation and subsequent divisions among protestant sects. It led to aberrations such as the Polish National Church (which in Cleveland at least only reconciled with the Catholic diocese in the last years of the past century), Old Catholics, and other schisms.

Solution: solid catechesis in the doctrine and teaching of the Catholic Church, adherence to the rites as written in the missal and sacramentary and accompanying instructions. Learn what the essentials are that are and must remain universal and untampered, then in non-essentials let devotional practice reflect the culture of the worshipers in a particular local church. If that local church happens to be multi-cultural, which is the rule rather the exception in America more and more, let all its members find expression and participation in the language of the heart, which is the reason for the V2 liturgical reforms.

In mission territories, take care that the essentials are respected, and that the dominant culture is not allowed to exclude faith expression of indigenous or minority peoples. Otherwise the Church is drawn into situations such as Catholic:Catholic violence and political problems as in Rwanda, Burundi etc.
 
A Black Catholic Church would itself be an anomoly by its very name. Catholic means universal, Black connotes some type of distictive separation, and therefore exclusivity. You cannot be exclusive and universal at the same time.
 
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Des:
Has anyone ever heard about the Black Catholic Church?

Isn’t this a little dangerous to start sepertating Catholic Churches based on ones Culture?
Interestingly, Presbyterian Theologian RC Sproul once said on his radio show (I am paraphrasing closely) that the greatest feature of Catholicism and the scandal of Protestantism is the Parish concept. He said in Catholicism you have people of all different races, ethnicities and socio-economic backgrounds coming together to worship as a people every Sunday in their particular Parish. This is something you rarely see in Protestantism. We tend end up in churches that “look” and act like us. I totally agree with him.

No you Catholics would do well to reject any model that divides the Church up into artificially separate groups. Don’t lose one of your greatest treasures that are unique to you alone, in all of Christendom.

To paint with a broader stroke. Stop imitating the worst in Protestantism to be relevant! It does not work and you are usually a couple decades behind anyway. Get back to your beautiful music and chanted liturgies and throw out sappy new folk music “hymns” that are cheesy even by Evangelical standards. It won’t draw anyone in. Young people, if you haven’t heard, are far more interested in worshipping in a timeless ancient way. Not in a segregated, folk, rock or rap Mass.

Take a look at ethnic Protestant churches and see what they degenerate into. Forget the nonsense of the boomer generation trying to be relevant. Please!!!

Mel
 
Hi Mel,
I understand and I agree in principle with what you state, but in this case (and others of note) this is an organic development and a perfectly natural result of the fact that the parish is in the heart of old Bronzeville. There have been nothing but black people within miles of the parish for several generations (probably 100 years).

The doctrines and liturgy are not distorted.

There is a myth in such neighborhoods that Catholicism is a “white peoples” church and it can be a big hurdle to overcome.

One problem the Catholic church had in the late 19th century was the tendency of American bishops to try and “mix-it-up” with the ethnic parishes. Often a priest would be sent to a parish who did not understand the culture and language, people wouldn’t even confess with a priest like that. Of course, if there isn’t a good candidate available with that groups’ background, they have to make do. Theoretically it shouldn’t matter but the average folk on the street aren’t that enlightened, yet they still need pastoral care and catechesis.

One last point, the church doesn’t have an official segregationist policy, unlike the days of old St Monica’s when it was established, and national parishes are not as common as they were once around Chicago, many have been closed and I doubt that there were any in the suburbs at all. This parish is a regular parish with normal bounderies, as far as I know. The neighborhood is entirely black.
 
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Hesychios:
Hi Mel,
I understand and I agree in principle with what you state, but in this case (and others of note) this is an organic development and a perfectly natural result of the fact that the parish is in the heart of old Bronzeville. There have been nothing but black people within miles of the parish for several generations (probably 100 years).

The doctrines and liturgy are not distorted.

There is a myth in such neighborhoods that Catholicism is a “white peoples” church and it can be a big hurdle to overcome.

One problem the Catholic church had in the late 19th century was the tendency of American bishops to try and “mix-it-up” with the ethnic parishes. Often a priest would be sent to a parish who did not understand the culture and language, people wouldn’t even confess with a priest like that. Of course, if there isn’t a good candidate available with that groups’ background, they have to make do. Theoretically it shouldn’t matter but the average folk on the street aren’t that enlightened, yet they still need pastoral care and catechesis.

One last point, the church doesn’t have an official segregationist policy, unlike the days of old St Monica’s when it was established, and national parishes are not as common as they were once around Chicago, many have been closed and I doubt that there were any in the suburbs at all. This parish is a regular parish with normal bounderies, as far as I know. The neighborhood is entirely black.
Ok. That makes perfect sense. If the Parish is predominantly black then I would expect most parishoners to be black. 👍

Not unlike the church across the street from me. It ia predominantly Portuguese because I live in a Portuguese area.

Mel
 
Dear Des,

Yes, and dare I say, maybe so. Not that particular one, but I’ve heard of them.

I have visited a black Catholic church and even played piano for rehearsals for their wonderful choir. They even have hymn books specially made for them with a fascinating history about how gospel singing evolved from slave songs.

Dangerous? In general I am conflicted about the whole “multicultural” mentality. For example, at our parish we have special days where we celebrate the Asians or the Hispanics and on those days the kids in school get to dress up in clothing of their culture. They sing songs and read scriptures in those languages. We do this to make all cultures feel welcome here. While the Masses are beautiful and fascinating, the white children feel left out. Those in those cultures seem to appreciate it because they say they feel alien to our culture in general. The other day I was talking about this to a relative and he said, “this never was a problem until they started having the Mass in the vernacular.”

Alan
 
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contramundum7:
i hope i am not misunderstanding you… (?)
I think its great that the Catholic Church celebrates the diversity of cultures in our world… It is fun to learn about the differences…
Are you saying we shouldn’t do that? Just don’t want to get your post wrong… :confused:
 
A Black Catholic Church would itself be an anomoly by its very name. Catholic means universal, Black connotes some type of distictive separation, and therefore exclusivity. You cannot be exclusive and universal at the same time.
i don’t agree. I have been to a mostly Black Catholic Church and it was wonderful. I have never once been to an all-black Church and don’t think anyone on this forum has. Yet, there have been times in US history when there were all white (and all black churches)… This was very wrong and i am glad the federal government (i am normally not all that fond of “them”) changed all that w/ desegrgation…
The institution of slavery in America sent the message to all that Blacks were (are) inferior. They are NOT… not in any way… and yet our culture’s attitudes die hard… Now Blacks are wary of Whites because of the past. Its really sad… And i resent it because sometimes Blacks whom i warm up & try to get to know better seem to immediately think i am, well, like “them”…
Man’s inhumanity to man… I am glad i am Catholic. The Catholic Church appreciates different cultures… 🙂
 
In Atlanta, over by the first Chick-Fil-A (actually called “The Dwarf Hut” or similar), I once visited a parish in a predominately black neighborhood. The parishioners were also predominately black, but there were also a good helping of Delta Airlines pilots and confused tourists like my family.

So I say a Catholic gospel choir can be awesome. They get to sing all the good hymns. And with both spirit and soul. 🙂 Very dignified and reverent, also.

But the real treat is Vietnamese polyphonic chant. It’s sort of a blend of Gregorian chant, Victorian French church music, and native Vietnamese music. A very beautiful and ethereal blend that makes good use of all voice parts, too. If you get a chance to listen to it, do so, because it is so lovely and prayerful.
 
Ahimsa,

Actually, the very best pierohi (authentic spelling 🙂 ) in Binghamton can be found at St. Michael’s Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Greek Catholic Church. 👍

Many years,

Neil
When I was in high school (I graduated HS 30 years ago), I had the priveledge of eating at St. Michaels a few times (even though I wasn’t Catholic). They put on absolutely the best dinners. If you have to go to a “Church Supper”, this was the best place to go. And instead of dread, one always had great anticipation of being able to go to St. Michaels.
 
I think I’ll petition Rome for permission to have a Catholic Church called the WHITE Catholic Church… wonder what they’ll say? :rolleyes:
Don’t be ridiculous, the Church has been a white institution up until recent decades. The other month I read about a black priest who was just beatified (can’t remember his name) who had to go to Rome to study because not a single seminary in the US would admit him.

Besides, there may not be “white” Catholic Churches but there are plenty of Irish parishes, Italian parishes, Polish parishes, &c, &c.
 
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