Black Catholics Urge Prayer, Change After Floyd Killing and Riots

  • Thread starter Thread starter TigerLily-1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
What change? I’m unclear on what Catholics can change with this issue., racism is bad. Everyone I know Catholic or not, agrees.
 
I’m white but have black family members in our family as well. It’s uncomfortable for some of us who do not have the daily experiences as well as the historical aspect to realize that even if we don’t act in a racist way ourselves, even if we support diversity, equality, speak out frequently to protest racism, try to foster respectful dialogue to lead to change, etc., we still benefit from the daily experiences and perspectives of being WHITE people. And that our black and brown brothers and sisters are denied this as a whole. Sure, some non-white people are in positions of power and authority through wealth, or manage to find enclaves of protection in some way, but even those people can, at the drop of a hat, find themselves confronted by racists and wind up beaten or dead, purely because they ‘aren’t white’.

That’s what we need to consider. . .and change.
 
I just plain don’t see it that way. I’m more “privileged” than a lot of trailer park white people. What is it exactly we should change. What should white peoples change, specifically.
 
It does seem to be a puzzle because the whole problem rests not on ‘The choir’, I.e the large number of people who are already working to change or who are NOT engaged in problem behaviors themselves, but on the small but intransigent number of people who either cannot or will not make the change in themselves to eradicate their racism.

It’s hard by now to think that any person of even the most basic intelligence cannot realize how pervasive racism is as an attitude which affects one group directly and others indirectly, but apparently there are a few who think that it’s ‘overblown’, or that words or actions of theirs are not ‘racist’ but are in fact ‘truth’. However we have all seen in our lives sweeping changes that have come to pass despite bitter protests, even from ‘silent majorities’. It can happen.
 
stpurl said:
It does seem to be a puzzle because the whole problem rests not on ‘The choir’, I.e the large number of people who are already working to change or who are NOT engaged in problem behaviors themselves, but on the small but intransigent number of people who either cannot or will not make the change in themselves to eradicate their racism.
Click to expand...
Yes, this. At the same time, I think the large number of white people who already condemn racist behavior, are monitoring their own behavior and sincerely trying not to be racist or offensive, and are genuinely upset over incidents of police brutality or random killings of people of color, get weary after a while if they’re constantly told they are part of the problem just because they’re white, or because they are a police officer or have family or friends who are officers, etc. You can’t always be going around justifying yourself, “Hey I voted for this and I supported that and I marched for this other thing” because it sounds like you’re virtue signaling and also, for some, whatever you did is never going to be enough.
 
Can anybody direct me to a petition to sign or or a congressperson to write to or some concrete action I can take to help?

I’m not planning to go on any protests because the protests in my area turned into riots and parts of my county have been under curfew.
 
You should write to the congresspeople, and mayors, sheriffs, other officials in the district where you vote.
Basically, if you write to somebody and you’re not their constituent, they couldn’t care less. They serve the people in their district.

A lot of people I know donate to ACLU. I realize some Catholics may have a problem with that, in which case I’d suggest donating to local charities helping in the riot-torn areas. I donated to a Gofundme to replace a store’s broken window yesterday, as riot damage is not covered by insurance policies.
 
Last edited:
Here is an idea.

When people use the term ‘racism’ they usually use it in one of two possible ways.

For many, the term ‘racism’ refers to one’s personal actions. Therefore a person who does not himself or herself espouse racist words or actions defines him/herself as ‘not racist’. Most of us white people define racism this way, and get upset when we are called racist. . .

BUT there is a second way of defining racism and it is based on experience.

The majority of people of color experience racism this way; an engrained and experienced history of being seen as inferior, of being ‘assumed’ to be lesser, dangerous, even ‘not really people’.

And the thing is that by white people defining racism one way, and insisting that because they personally aren’t acting in a racist way, they are also insisting that THEIR experience (which does not include having experienced racism as people of color do) is THE way to define racism. The people who don’t experience racism as thus allowed to be the ones to determine when and if it occurs.

And again, that’s what we need to change. We need to stop being even more racist by our patronizing attitude of, “There, there, WE aren’t meanie-weenies, therefore you people of color need to stop worrying’!
 
You’re talking about the difference between systemic racism and racism itself.

People are fond of saying racism is a system of power therefore blacks and others can’t be racist, only bigoted. But that’s not strictly true. The dictionary defines racism in three ways, one of which is not institutional or based on power. Therefore anyone can be a racist.

I really think those defining it only as a system of power are acting in unintentional bad faith. Racism is experienced by every ethnic group on a daily basis. As is the unspoken problem of classism, a prevalent if not more prevalent issue that is often used to divide the races more than unite them as it should.
 
You rightly note classism. But I believe you are white, like me. I am not sure if you are a woman like me, but if you are male, while I personally am not of the ilk that automatically deems ‘all men sexist” anymore than I deem “all white people racist” (under the definition of ‘because they are privileged), I do have a different worldview than my brother or my father or my son and grandsons because I am a woman, and a view more similar to my mother, sister, and daughters, because they are women.

Not all woman experience the ill effects of sexism. While many of us experienced something, whether objectification, the assumption of us being ‘available’ to meet ‘needs’ regardless, and almost all of us have experienced inequality in the work force at some point, there are also things like the ‘women and children first’ ethic from which some women benefited historically. Similarly, while men have experienced often far greater opportunities for everything from education to job availability, they also have been drafted, have been themselves used and abused, objectified, not paid fairly, etc

And this of course means women of all races and men of all races.

But I do think that what is right now in the US causing the most problem is that at THIS POINT in our history, we are sticking at the ‘fairness’. I mean, it’s almost a competition, “No, you people of color aren’t the ONLY victims, look at poor white men, look at poor white women”. . .that is not what any of us need to say or hear, because once again people of color are being told, “Oh it isn’t all about YOU”. IOW, “YOUR views do not matter. Only the views of white people matter. Only white people can say what is fair. Only white people are impartial, are educated enough to be able to ‘see’ and ‘judge’. You people of color are too ‘fixed’ on the past. You’re too emotional. You aren’t being FAIR to all the wonderful white people who never hurt you. Stop it and behave more reasonably”.

If we could only be humble enough as white people to say, “We are sorry; sorry for the actions done as a group through the years by white people to black people where we treated you as ‘not good enough’ or ‘not like us’ and allowed that attitude to foster violence and hate. We’re sorry for not caring enough for you and more for caring about how we perceived ourselves and wanting to look ‘better’. We were wrong. We are wrong. And we want to stop being wrong. Here and now we embrace you as equals and as true brothers and sisters. As a family, we reject ‘racism’ and instead, through Jesus Christ, brother of us all, we are One in Him.”
 
stpurl said:
IOW, “YOUR views do not matter. Only the views of white people matter. Only white people can say what is fair. Only white people are impartial, are educated enough to be able to ‘see’ and ‘judge’. You people of color are too ‘fixed’ on the past. You’re too emotional. You aren’t being FAIR to all the wonderful white people who never hurt you. Stop it and behave more reasonably”.
Click to expand...
No those aren’t my ‘other words’. And you shouldn’t put words in people’s mouths. The rest of your post is standard white guilt to which I am opposed. Such apologies will do nothing more but divide and anger the races when they should be uniting against a common enemy.
 
I wasn’t referring to your words specifically, but the whole narrative of the last 400 years or so of American history when it comes to the unstated but implied status quo regarding white and black Americans is pretty much what I state.

It is not ‘white guilt’; I personally am not guilty in any way of any direct racist words or actions. I have no idea if there is ‘male guilt’ or ‘parental guilt’ or whatever out there, but there are plenty of voices speaking of sexism, ageism, whatever.

It is acknowledging that for the most part in the US it is the white people who have been the majority until very recently and that it is their standards and worldview which have informed the nation’s narrative. Acknowledging that this narrative may not accurately reflect the experiences of nonwhites in the US is not ‘white guilt’, it’s simple fact.
 
stpurl said:
Acknowledging that this narrative may not accurately reflect the experiences of nonwhites in the US is not ‘white guilt’, it’s simple fact.
Click to expand...
Agreed which is why I value objective fact and Catholic dogma and social teaching. I am not a USA USA fly the flag our founders were angels type. I agree that too often our national narrative has been framed in a racist and classist way. Criticize him as you will (not you specifically) Howard Zinn has done a great job at changing that narrative significantly.
 
stpurl said:
If we could only be humble enough as white people to say, “We are sorry; sorry for the actions done as a group through the years by white people to black people where we treated you as ‘not good enough’ or ‘not like us’ and allowed that attitude to foster violence and hate. We’re sorry for not caring enough for you and more for caring about how we perceived ourselves and wanting to look ‘better’. We were wrong. We are wrong. And we want to stop being wrong. Here and now we embrace you as equals and as true brothers and sisters. As a family, we reject ‘racism’ and instead, through Jesus Christ, brother of us all, we are One in Him.”
Click to expand...
I’m white. Do I have “blood guilt” upon me for being born white?
Also, you have advocated for “change,” but have not listed specifics. I think its hard for people to embrace change when nobody will tell them the specifics.

Thoughts?
 
No, neither of us has ‘blood guilt’ or ‘white guilt’ anymore than a person of color should have ‘black guilt’ etc.

Apparently it is difficult for people to think past their engrained ideas about race.

I am a white woman. How does it make me have ‘guilt’ to state to a black person that I am sorry for the actions historically of white people who put the black people categorically into a ‘group’ who were exploited? I’m not saying I was responsible for those actions.

Pope St. John Paul II apologized on the behalf of Catholics for actions which had hurt people. Did that give me ‘Catholic guilt?”

The Japanese people have apologized for their actions, especially to the Korean people under WW2. Do they have “Japanese guilt?”

Can we not acknowledge actions which have hurt others, even when we personally were not responsible, by saying we are sorry for the hurt done?
 
stpurl said:
Apparently it is difficult for people to think past their engrained ideas about race.
Click to expand...
This is a condescending remark. It implies my ideas about race are wrong. You don’t know anything about my ideas about race beyond me asking you to clarify your position based on the words you used.

So tell me: What are my engrained ideas about race?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top