Black Catholics

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Matt33 I will pass your compliment on to my mom. If I am amongst those that hold a popular stance it is due to her and how she raised her children.

When you stated the question - should we even be talking about this? That is close to my original thought.

You also state that it is not realistic in the conversation. What do you see as being realistic in this matter and why?

The original question was:

My questions would be minus the adjectives ‘American’ and ‘black’?

I will interested to read your thoughts as your first post got me thinking.
25 percent of America is Catholic and less than 25 percent of African Americans are not then I dont understand your point of race not playing into it? Of course you are correct that we we should focus on everyone being Catholic but this thread is specifically discussing African Americans. You get to be the good person that is above all racial lines but the rest of us need to have a dirty and real examination of why some ethnic groups are not as Catholic as others and how that can be addresed. If you think the descrepancy (I wish someone would post actual numbers) between say hispanics and African Americans and Catholisism has nothing to do with race then please remeber the red light is on top and the green light is on the bottom. (it helps with color blindness)
 
That is a good question. I do not know the answer, but I do see this to be true at least where I live.

The inner city and older suburbs of Cleveland have undergone major changes in demographics. There are a lot of Catholic parishes that are closing, since the white people (of Irish, Italian, Polish, etc. backgrounds) have left the area. The black residents who have moved into those neighborhoods are, for the most part, not Catholic.

However, the neighborhoods that used to be predominantly white but are now predominantly Hispanic have thriving parishes, because most Hispanics are Catholic.
Just a note of observation here. There are many white Hispanics. Hispanic is an ethnic group, not a race.

It is true that many parishes that were populated by predominantly anglo Catholics have been replaced by Hispanic and other Latin American Catholics. Let’s not forget that the majority of the Caribbean is also Catholic. Brazil makes up more than half of Latin America. Though they are not Hispanic, they are Catholic. Most of the poorer Hispanics that migrate from South America and Mexico are Native Americans, but they tend to be Catholic. This is the dominant group of Hispanics in the USA. Most white Hispanics are very wealthy and very powerful and rarely migrate outside their country, with the exception of those who migrate for other reasons like Cristina Aguilera, Ricki Martin, or Julio Iglesias and family and the Cubans in Miami.

Even in Latin America, Black Latinos tend to be Catholic. I believe it has to do with the fact that former slave owners were Catholic, just like former slave owners in the United States were predominantly Protestant and Southerners, with the exception of the French.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
Just a note of observation here. There are many white Hispanics. Hispanic is an ethnic group, not a race.
I understand this. I am referring to the designation that one would use on a form. By Hispanic, I am referring to persons who would call themselves by that on census forms. I am sure you have seen and answered those forms. The forms will specify White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American. If one considers himself Hispanic on the form, he cannot also check White or Black.
 
I understand this. I am referring to the designation that one would use on a form. By Hispanic, I am referring to persons who would call themselves by that on census forms. I am sure you have seen and answered those forms. The forms will specify White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American. If one considers himself Hispanic on the form, he cannot also check White or Black.
I know the forms to which you are referring. I’ve never understood that breakdown, especially the ones that specifically state “from European desent other than Spain.”

I’m not sure if that was written for some reason related to segregation or for some other govenment purpose. I know that the Catholic Church does not like that form of grouping people.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
Hmmm…

Did you know that:

There are black men alive today denied admission to Notre Dame because it did not admit blacks?

There was a special auxiliary of the Klan which admitted Catholics and which attacked black demonstrators in St. Augustine in 1963?

There are priestly orders which did not admit black applicants on principle until the end of the sixties?

Cardinal Spellman urged Pope Paul XI not to meet with MLK at the urging of J. Edgar Hoover? (The pope met with him anyway.)

During the Civil War a black orphanage in NYC was set on fire by Catholic rioters, the doors nailed shut and anyone trying to get out the windows was shot?

Catholicism is color blind but I’m not sure about all Catholics always.
Beau, I am still here in your ancestor’s country. I am a native New Orleanian who has lived in the Baton Rouge area for the last 32 years. Mine was one of the first classes to be integrated (OLPH in Kenner) in 1963, The archdiocese of NO was way beyond the curve.

I am also Irish. The granaries were filled in Ireland in " Black 47" and the British government let people starve because they were Catholic. My ancestors were dumped on the levees of NO in high summer. My ancestors dug all those canals in NO because slaves were more valuable. Did you know that there is a mass grave of 5,000+ Irishmen on Pontchartrain Blvd. in NO because they died of yellow fever while digging the New Basin Canal?

Both of us can cite history. I can’t own the attitudes of the nineteenth century south or of my ancestors. It shakes me to my core that I have discovered that some of my French ancestors in St. Martinville owned and sold slaves. But as a student of history, I am more than aware that there were wealthy black and creole de coleur plantation owners along the Cane River in Natchitoches that owned slaves and formed military companies to support the Confederacy.

I can no more change the past than I can can get past living
“hand to mouth” as a state employee. I have the example of my Irish mother. In the summer of 1963, the ditches to support the sewer system in Kenner were being dug - not by machine but by black men. It was hot and humid and they had no water. My mother made a big pitcher of lemonade and brought it out to workers with glasses from our kitchen. I remember her words to this day “They are children of God”. A very courageous act on my mother’s part given the mentality of the times and, yes, it was noted by my neighbors and, yes, I did mention it at my mother’s funeral with some of the very neighbors who commented present.

For every historical event you can cite, there is an equal and opposite event for the Irish, I can cite. We have to move beyond what happened in the past. I’ll give you one more brief example.

In 1990 I took over as an Examinations Director for a state agency involved in licensing. I was the #3 person in the agency. My test monitor resigned and I asked an old friend from another state agency if she would be interested in a transfer. She was and I brought her over. The #2 person in the agency (my supervisor) said to me “You didn’t tell me she was black!” My response to her was “It didn’t occur to me that it mattered. She is qualified”.

Change is possible. It has happened. I have no animosity towards the British or my fellow Americans as a person of Irish ancestry. We have to move beyond our ancestors and what happened in the past. We can’t change the past. We can change the future.
 
Change is possible. It has happened. I have no animosity towards the British or my fellow Americans as a person of Irish ancestry. We have to move beyond our ancestors and what happened in the past. We can’t change the past. We can change the future.
All what you say is very true and I am aware of the Irish’ status as a persecuted minority in the UK. My point is that many people feel that Catholicism in the US has been color blind. That is simply not so.

I don’t dwell on it, I don’t seek reparations and I really don’t have any animosity about it. I just want people to stop fooling themselves. Viola Liuzzo was murdered. Nuns marched in civil rights demonstrations. However, ethnic minorities in the US who happened to be Catholic were not great supporters of the civil rights movement. Clarence Thomas was emotionally scarred when he heard fellow seminarians who were happy that MLK had been killed.

As an aside, there was an order of priests founded to minister to the slaves and freedmen in the LA countryside. They were called “Josephites”, which is why my first name is Joseph to this day.
 
On a light note. The first Black nun in Georgia was a widow from Louisiana named Mother Mathilda Beasley, OSF. Read about her here.
We also have a very active African American community at St. Benedict the Moor, where they have a missionary priest from Nigeria.
 
On a light note. The first Black nun in Georgia was a widow from Louisiana named Mother Mathilda Beasley, OSF. Read about her here.
We also have a very active African American community at St. Benedict the Moor, where they have a missionary priest from Nigeria.
I think they have re-named it “St. Benedict the African” in many places.
 
All what you say is very true and I am aware of the Irish’ status as a persecuted minority in the UK. My point is that many people feel that Catholicism in the US has been color blind. That is simply not so.

I don’t dwell on it, I don’t seek reparations and I really don’t have any animosity about it. I just want people to stop fooling themselves. Viola Liuzzo was murdered. Nuns marched in civil rights demonstrations. However, ethnic minorities in the US who happened to be Catholic were not great supporters of the civil rights movement. Clarence Thomas was emotionally scarred when he heard fellow seminarians who were happy that MLK had been killed.

As an aside, there was an order of priests founded to minister to the slaves and freedmen in the LA countryside. They were called “Josephites”, which is why my first name is Joseph to this day.
I can only go on what I was raised with. I remember the “reserved for our colored patrons” in the back of the bus wen I was a kid. I remember the back windows of New Orlean’s restaurants “for our colored patrons”. I remember all too well that black people were restricted to the balcony of the Kenner theater. But I also remember that there was officially no segregation in OLPH.

The civil rights movement was real to me. I lived it. I know the good, bad, and ugly. Most folks could care less about the Irish and most folks could care less down here in regards to the civil rights movement. We have moved beyond. Deo gratias ite Deo gratias.

Josephites - just a few in Reserve and in NO. What was the name of that movie in which St. Aug played against a white Catholic high school? I don’t do sports. Never have. Never will. But I do do know that movie reflected the game between St. Aug and my high school, St Aloysius around 1967 or so.

We had beau coup creoles de coleur in my class. T’werent no big deal.

Black Catholics have been part and parcel of my life. One of my black board members made the sign of the cross after the invocation at Thursday’s Board meeting. Braver man than I, Gunga Din. I am not home in New Orleans and I follow a placid Catholicism here. Put me down in “da city” and I’m as Catholic as they come.

Good thing about being Catholic. Race doesn’t enter into it.
 
When I was in New York, I saw many African American Catholics in the Churches. Also, there are a lot of African Catholics. In fact, we could one day have an African Pope.
Amen to that! I’ve seen/met quite a few African Catholics at the churches that I’ve been to, and I must say that they’re among the most reverent people I know. As far as African Americans are concerned, unfortunately it’s also true in my experience that I have not personally met very many of them, probably because most of them who are Christian are very Protestant.
 
I truly wonder why so few black Americans are Roman Catholics. Other than the fact that most slave owners were not Catholic, I’m not sure I understand why American Catholicism does not have more black adherents.
I think it all goes back to slavery times when Protestantism was the only form of Christianity slaves were exposed to, so many slaves took that on as their religion, then it became a cultural thing where most blacks were Protestant because their mom was Protestant and she was Protestant because HER mom was Protestant and so on, then with the Gospel music and Gospel hyms and how blacks gave it their own flair, most blacks became just more used to Protestantism. Then add in the myths about Catholicism that many Protestants were taught and that’s how you end up with most American blacks being Protestant. There are more African Catholics because Africans do not have the same history and culture American blacks have and Africans were more exposed to Catholicism until televangelism came on the scene. 👍 🙂
 
I kind of doubt it. My family is from New Iberia, LA and is black and Catholic. And steadfast liberal!

My question concerned why the missionary movement really did not reach out more to black folks in the US. It may be because in the early US history religion was so striated along ethnic lines.

I am also tired of hearing people say that 10 am on Sundays is the most segregated time in most people’s lives. My parish is about 30% black Americans, 10% Africans, 30% white, 20% Hispanic and 10% Indians. That’s real diversity. And I know of another parish which is similarly mixed.
Of course. In both a political and social sense, Catholicism has always been extremely liberal in the USA and the world for that matter.
 
Well, when you had an order of priests that would not accept black applicants it makes one wonder.
Could you tell me more about this? I would like to read/study about it as it is a most uncharitable position.

Thanks and God bless
 
near where i live we have a minor basilica with a 99% african-american membership.
 
Could you tell me more about this? I would like to read/study about it as it is a most uncharitable position.

Thanks and God bless
I was informed of this in an autobiography by a priest called: “Black Priest-White Church” by Lawrence Lucas. It really does not help the discussion to name the order. When Fr. Lucas was considering the priesthood, he was interviewed by some priests who were very embarrassed and evasive. It turns out that this famous order did not accept its first black applicant until the late sixties. They now have moved away from their restrictive past.

Father Lucas remains a priest to this day. People who think the Church in America was color-blind would do well to understand how things were.
 
On a light note. The first Black nun in Georgia was a widow from Louisiana named Mother Mathilda Beasley, OSF. Read about her here.
We also have a very active African American community at St. Benedict the Moor, where they have a missionary priest from Nigeria.
Those Nigerian priests are all kick-butt in my experience. Very solid.
 
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