Blacks and the LDS/Mormon Priesthood

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Here’s a correction for your correction. 😃

The Berber identity is usually wider than language and ethnicity,[clarification needed] and encompasses the entire history and geography of North Africa. Berbers are not a homogeneous ethnic group and they encompass a range of phenotypes, cultures and ancestries

From Wiki (bolding mine)

http://www.nairaland.com/attachments/594337_berber5_jpgc159e40fe33851a00eba1aff8e55042c
Those aren’t black people. But just to make you have an idea of what I mean… North Africa was NOT a black place. Sure the people were darker than Arabs and Europeans but they were not black. Today they may encompass a few phenotypes but even that is speculative as that is just cas amongst a group of people. The random black and Arab here and there but the average Berber is not black.

So once again, correction… There has never been an Black pope.
 
Those aren’t black people. But just to make you have an idea of what I mean… North Africa was NOT a black place. Sure the people were darker than Arabs and Europeans but they were not black. Today they may encompass a few phenotypes but even that is speculative as that is just cas amongst a group of people. The random black and Arab here and there but the average Berber is not black.

So once again, correction… There has never been an Black pope.
What color are they?

Let’s see, they are obviously black, and they are from Africa, so, obviously your assumption is incorrect.

Keep in mind, when we are talking about Pope Victor’s time frame, there would have been less light skinned people in that region, so there would have been more “black” people.

As a side question, how long have you been Mormon?
 
Regarding race and the LDS, I live in the Dominican Republic and often wonder how they are able to recruit people given their recent racist past. I did chat with a Mormon about this and she said they recognized it was wrong as they had a new revelation. It would seem only logical to question the validity of the prophets and leaders who made this claim and the members certainly doubt about this but I believe because of the very nature of Mormonism and it’s cult like control of it’s followers and over abundant fellowship convince most people to not question it. For that reason I have labeled the LDS a cult of fellowship.
 
off topic…but:

According to the sixth-century Liber Pontificalis, the earliest known record of the popes, Victor was from North Africa, while Miltiades and Gelasius likely were born in Rome to families of African origin.

Interestingly, Victor was the first pope to speak Latin because Christians in Rome were still using Greek in the liturgy. As one historian has written, it was “remarkable … that Latin should have won recognition as the language of African Christianity from the outset, while the Roman church was still using Greek.”

But were these three African popes “black” in the sense that we would define race today? And did it matter back then?

The Rev. Cyprian Davis, a Benedictine priest who is a leading historian of African-American Catholicism, notes that by Pope Victor’s time, the Roman aristocracy had large holdings in North Africa. It’s not clear, however, whether these so-called African popes came from those families or from the rural, somewhat darker-skinned indigenous population known as the Berbers.

Davis said the best bet for what we would consider a “black” pope is probably Victor, but he added that the church and the empire of those early centuries were a mosaic of colors and ethnicities.

“It’s important for us to look and say that yes, the early papacy was not white. No, it was much more diverse than you might think,” Davis said.

Moreover, race as we think of it today did not have quite the same meaning back then.

“When you say’black pope,’ you have to think Roman Empire, not African-American,” as Bellitto put it. Some popes in those days — along with many renowned saints and martyrs and bishops like St. Augustine of Hippo — probably looked more like modern Arabs than any pontiff of the last millennium.

faithstreet.com/onfaith/2013/03/01/has-there-ever-been-a-black-or-african-pope
 
…yes. Yes, they are. :confused:
No, no they aren’t.
What color are they?

Let’s see, they are obviously black, and they are from Africa, so, obviously your assumption is incorrect.
No they are dark middle eastern/indian looking but definitely not black. I see those kind of people all time here in my country. I’m African, South African specifically and I’m black. Those are not black people. America has really confused what a black person is. Some people are called black in the USA who aren’t really black at all but Coloured (South African term for mixed race).
Keep in mind, when we are talking about Pope Victor’s time frame, there would have been less light skinned people in that region, so there would have been more “black” people.
I know that but being dark does not mean you are black. These people were and are not black. NORTH africans were never black except the Egyptians and Sudanese who both descend from the Ethiopians.
As a side question, how long have you been Mormon?
Lol like never… I’m catholic.
 
No, no they aren’t.

No they are dark middle eastern/indian looking but definitely not black. I see those kind of people all time here in my country. I’m African, South African specifically and I’m black. Those are not black people. America has really confused what a black person is. Some people are called black in the USA who aren’t really black at all but Coloured (South African term for mixed race).

I know that but being dark does not mean you are black. These people were and are not black. NORTH africans were never black except the Egyptians and Sudanese who both descend from the Ethiopians.

Lol like never… I’m catholic.
Oh my my.
 
This reminds me of Trevor Noah, a South African comedian who is Coloured.

He joked that when he was in the States, he was now black but in SA he is definitely not black and how that was so new to him lol. but back home he is definitely not black but Coloured, as many people are here.

He also joked about how one person mistook him for being Mexican.

FYI Coloured does not refer to light skinned black people but a real specific race group of people who have developed from khoisan slaves and white males having children together. And these new mixed race peoples inbred with themselves until they became their own race easily distinguishable from black people and Indians.
 
The definition of black and all that nonsensical classification varies from country to country and language to language.
 
The definition of black and all that nonsensical classification varies from country to country and language to language.
True but at the same time this is due to a lot of people who aren’t black trying to classify who is and who is not black. Instead of letting black people decide who is and who is not black.

I can guarantee you that if you went to west, east and southern Africa and ask the people there if the children in that picture are black, you will unanimously get a resounding “NO”.

Anyways, like I said and any historian will tell you, there has never been a black pope.
 
True but at th same time this is due to a lot of people who aren’t black trying to classify who is and who is not black. Instead of letting black people decide who is and who is not black.

I cam guarantee you that if you went to west, east and southern Africa and ask the people there if the children in that picture are black, you will unanimously get a resounding “NO”.
My point is one shouldn’t give much relevance to classifications like this, whether millions do it or not. We are all God’s children and He likes variety.
 
My point is one shouldn’t give much relevance to classifications like this, whether millions do it or not. We are all God’s children and He likes variety.
Amen

I was just trying to make a point that the Berber people are not black and the 3 African popes in history were all Berber.
 
True but at the same time this is due to a lot of people who aren’t black trying to classify who is and who is not black. Instead of letting black people decide who is and who is not black.

I can guarantee you that if you went to west, east and southern Africa and ask the people there if the children in that picture are black, you will unanimously get a resounding “NO”.

Anyways, like I said and any historian will tell you, there has never been a black pope.
Well black people in the US may classify those in the photograph as black, and then where are you?
 
Amen

I was just trying to make a point that the Berber people are not black and the 3 African popes in history were all Berber.
does not mean they were not black. I have seen black and white Hispanics.

They were African. That is good enough for me
 
No, no they aren’t.

No they are dark middle eastern/indian looking but definitely not black. I see those kind of people all time here in my country. I’m African, South African specifically and I’m black. Those are not black people. America has really confused what a black person is. Some people are called black in the USA who aren’t really black at all but Coloured (South African term for mixed race).

I know that but being dark does not mean you are black. These people were and are not black. NORTH africans were never black except the Egyptians and Sudanese who both descend from the Ethiopians.

Lol like never… I’m catholic.
Sorry, but, based on my earlier post, and the pic (which I disagree that they look middle eastern), your argument falls very short.

Also, in the context of this conversation, the mormon priesthood ban had to do with those of dark skin of African descent.

Sorry, but, on either front, your argument just doesn’t cut it.
 
Sorry, but, based on my earlier post, and the pic (which I disagree that they look middle eastern), your argument falls very short.

Also, in the context of this conversation, the mormon priesthood ban had to do with those of dark skin of African descent.

Sorry, but, on either front, your argument just doesn’t cut it.
I don’t care , the fact of the matter is those people in the picture are not black, that’s just a fact. They’re Berber, a separate indigenous north African people apart from the Bantu people.
 
does not mean they were not black. I have seen black and white Hispanics.

They were African. That is good enough for me
Comparing Hispanics to Berber is like comparing apples with water. Not the same thing at all. Berber is not just a culture but a people of north Africa. They were not black. Any scholar will tell you this. In fact no credible historian has ever said there has been a black pope. The African popes were not black…

That’s fine If them being African is good for you. I don’t understand why you mention this though.
 
Well black people in the US may classify those in the photograph as black, and then where are
Like I said, the idea of what a black person in America is, is very distorted and sometimes incorrect. Again I will note that some American people labeled black by American society who aren’t really black. In fact here in Africa people always mention this.

Again I’ll bring you back to Trevor Noah. He KNOWS for a fact that he is not black but because of the USA’s distorted image of a black person, he was classified as black when he went there. He always jokes about this. So if you really want to know who is black and who is not, ask an African… A bantu/black African.

I could tell from the get go, by just looking for 3 seconds that those kids in the picture were not black. Its so evident. Like how do you not see this??? :ehh: . Did you look at that little girls hair even?? It flows! …
i guess I’m just used to being around black people enough to know who is black and who is not. Trust me, those kids are not black:
 
Like I said, the idea of what a black person in America is, is very distorted and sometimes incorrect. Again I will note that American people labeled black by American society who aren’t really black. I’m fact here in Africa people always mention this.

Again I’ll bring you back to Trevor Noah. He KNOWS for a fact that he is not black bur because of the USA’s distorted image of a black person, he was classifies as black when he went there. He always jokes about this. So if you really want to know who is black and who is not, ask an African… A bantu/black African.
Oh I see so only black people in Africa are allowed any say on this, American blacks have no standing on the issue, got it.
 
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