Blah! Blah! Blah! ... All the talking during Mass

[JReducation]

What’s worse, I don’t think this is a Catholic issue. I truly believe that we live in a society where good manners are just not observed or even taught. I have given many lectures, taught many theology classes, and go to the movies once a year. People don’t seem to know when to be quiet.

About a month ago, I was preaching a retreat. During my talk, someone go up to check on something on the side. I can’t recall what it was. I distracted me and actually annoyed me. I had to go to confession for being annoyed.

Last wee, I was teaching a theology class to a group of novices. Suddenly, a little conversation started in the corner. I had to stop and wait. I can’t scold the novices. That’s not allowed.

My brother took me to see a movie and someone pulled out a cell-phone.

That’s why I said before, I prefer chapels of religious houses, because they attract people of like mind. In these situations that are open to everyone, you’re going to get many people who lack good manners.

I always remind myself of soemthing that St. Catherine of Siena said about scandal. St. Catherine of Siena said to “those who are scandalized and rebel against what happens to them”: "Everything comes from love, all is ordained for the salvation of man, God does nothing without this goal in mind.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[faithfully]

What’s worse, I don’t think this is a Catholic issue. I truly believe that we live in a society where good manners are just not observed or even taught. I have given many lectures, taught many theology classes, and go to the movies once a year. People don’t seem to know when to be quiet. This is true. I think many are very uncomfy with silence. And I also think there are people that can’t be quiet. I have a 2 5 y/o’s with sensory issues. One can NOT shut up unless he’s asleep. I’m waiting for him to be a sleep talker! I usually have them in Sunday school when I go to Mass. Which was not avail. today. So we sat in the Kids room with parents and mostly toddlers. He thinks he’s sitting quietly, and it’s all noise… few words… but just NOISE!!! I have to read the Mass online today. I could not hear most of the readings!

About a month ago, I was preaching a retreat. During my talk, someone go up to check on something on the side. I can’t recall what it was. I distracted me and actually annoyed me. I had to go to confession for being annoyed.

Last wee, I was teaching a theology class to a group of novices. Suddenly, a little conversation started in the corner. I had to stop and wait. I can’t scold the novices. That’s not allowed. Are there other ways that aren’t scolding? "Excuse me, is there something we could all discuss? Bring it to the class. I presume a “novice” is an adult and not a child. I can’t tell you how many classes I’ve attended that something the teacher sparked a side conversation. That was probably worthy of a class discussion. Open it up! If reasonable. If it’s too off topic, can you suggest they stay after class to discuss. Basically taking the power back as TEACHER, and letting them know you are thrilled to further the discussion, but this is not the place.

My brother took me to see a movie and someone pulled out a cell-phone. That’s just rude. If you are uncomfy shushing them, go talk to a manger. You aren’t the only one being disturbed. Who spent some $10.00 on a ticket.

That’s why I said before, I prefer chapels of religious houses, because they attract people of like mind. In these situations that are open to everyone, you’re going to get many people who lack good manners.

I always remind myself of soemthing that St. Catherine of Siena said about scandal. St. Catherine of Siena said to “those who are scandalized and rebel against what happens to them”: "Everything comes from love, all is ordained for the salvation of man, God does nothing without this goal in mind.”Beautiful!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

One can NOT shut up unless he’s asleep. I’m waiting for him to be a sleep talker!

This is not a rude child. This is a child whose self-regulating mechanism is not well developed. I can understand this and I actually find these enjoyable. They’re like the Eveready Bunny. I sat next to such a child at mass. I found mysefl thanking God for the innocence of childhood. It was one of the most beautiful prayer experiences I have ever had.

Are there other ways that aren’t scolding?

I find that when I stop and just look, everyone suddenly looks at me and the chit-chat stops. Sometimes I just ask a question of one of the chatters. This draws them back into the class.

That’s just rude. If you are uncomfy shushing them, go talk to a manger. You aren’t the only one being disturbed. Who spent some $10.00 on a ticket.

That’s my point. What you and I consider to be rude, other people think nothing of it. It makes you wonder what are people teaching in their home. We’re not allowed to complain. It’s against the Rule of St. Francis. A friar is the lowest person in the world. He must never consider himself as having rights over those who are better than he is. Our only rights are those given to us by the Church and by the founder. This is the beauty of Francis and his way of living the Gospel. Total poverty is total detachment, not only from material things, but more importantly from self. We are taught to put up with these things as a form of penance.

Beautiful!

St. Catherine had a true understanding of patience.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[pnewton]

We’re not allowed to complain. It’s against the Rule of St. Francis. A friar is the lowest person in the world. He must never consider himself as having rights over those who are better than he is. Our only rights are those given to us by the Church and by the founder. This is the beauty of Francis and his way of living the Gospel. Total poverty is total detachment, not only from material things, but more importantly from self. We are taught to put up with these things as a form of penance.

That Francis should be a saint! What a beautiful way of living.

 

[faithfully]

This is not a rude child. This is a child whose self-regulating mechanism is not well developed. I can understand this and I actually find these enjoyable. They’re like the Eveready Bunny. I sat next to such a child at mass. I found mysefl thanking God for the innocence of childhood. It was one of the most beautiful prayer experiences I have ever had.

Yes, I know. And we’re VERY fortunate, that it’s not a severe situation. Which is why it’s hard for most to realize what I’m dealing with . Most assume a misbehaving child. Not someone that has some issues. And they roll their “knowing eyes.” It can be hard to handle. But we do. And I’m grateful to know that he WILL grow out of this, or rather learn to control it.

I find that when I stop and just look, everyone suddenly looks at me and the chit-chat stops. Sometimes I just ask a question of one of the chatters. This draws them back into the class.



That’s my point. What you and I consider to be rude, other people think nothing of it. It makes you wonder what are people teaching in their home. We’re not allowed to complain. It’s against the Rule of St. Francis. A friar is the lowest person in the world. Well, this may be your teaching. I accept that. But I think many of us laymen(women) would beg to differ. He must never consider himself as having rights over those who are better than he is. And perhaps you can do nothing because it would serve yourself a bit. But the complaint would also serve others who may not be comfy about complaining. I’m a loud mouth… I’d complain for you! Our only rights are those given to us by the Church and by the founder. This is the beauty of Francis and his way of living the Gospel. Total poverty is total detachment, not only from material things, but more importantly from self. We are taught to put up with these things as a form of penance. In my family, whenever we have to “put up” with something, and we express the inconvinence… someone always shouts “give it up for your sins!” There’s some humor there, but we’re always reminding each other basically how blessed we are.

St. Catherine had a true understanding of patience.I’ll have to read on her… Patience is a virtue I could always work on!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ConstantineTG]

That’s my point. What you and I consider to be rude, other people think nothing of it. It makes you wonder what are people teaching in their home. We’re not allowed to complain. It’s against the Rule of St. Francis. A friar is the lowest person in the world. He must never consider himself as having rights over those who are better than he is. Our only rights are those given to us by the Church and by the founder. This is the beauty of Francis and his way of living the Gospel. Total poverty is total detachment, not only from material things, but more importantly from self. We are taught to put up with these things as a form of penance.

We need to make everyone in the world a little bit of a Franciscan. I’ve seen people who does nothing but complain. Oh, and I had a neighbor before, one floor below me. I bet if I could levitate and not touch the floor at all, he’ll still find something to complain about.

 

[faithfully]

We need to make everyone in the world a little bit of a Franciscan. I’ve seen people who does nothing but complain. Oh, and I had a neighbor before, one floor below me. I bet if I could levitate and not touch the floor at all, he’ll still find something to complain about.

LOL! I had one that used to complain about all the noise we made when we WEREN’T HOME!!! I quit trying when it was clear this guy was just looking to complain about anything he possibly could.

 

[JReducation]

That Francis should be a saint! What a beautiful way of living.

Maybe we should canonize him. :yup:

We need to make everyone in the world a little bit of a Franciscan. I’ve seen people who does nothing but complain. Oh, and I had a neighbor before, one floor below me. I bet if I could levitate and not touch the floor at all, he’ll still find something to complain about.

I think that we can learn something from all of the saints. In my personal life, the four people who have taught me the most are: Francis of Assisi, Elizabeth Ann Seton, Teresa of Calcutta and Teresa of Avila. I think that I learned a lot from them, because they did not tolerate complainers gladly.

I’m reminded of the time that Francis sent a group of brothers to open a new house in a certain parish. The priest had a rather active sex life. He had three mistresses, not in succession, but simultaneously. The newly appointed superior of the new house asked Francis how to handle the situation and Francis ignored him. Thinking that Francis had not understood the gravity of the scandal, he repeated it. Francis again ignored him. He repeated it again. Francis blew his top. He ordered the brother, under penalty of grave sin, never to repeat it again and to go to that priest and confess his sin, then go and receive communion from him. Yet, he was the most compassionate man when someone had a real suffering.

I’ve learned, little by little, to discriminate between real suffering and self-imposed suffering. Teresa of Avila referred to those who suffered, because they chose to suffer, “Sour faced saints” and prayed to be spared from them. She had no tolerance for those who “suffered” because of the weaknesses of others, as if they were their own weaknesses.

Elizabeth Ann Seton was a woman who suffered a great deal. Check out her life. However, when her son Richard complained about how much they were suffering, she blasted him across the room for whining. I believe that she coined the phrase, “This is not an option.”

Mother Teresa once saw a sister with a sour face. She asked her, “Did Jesus say to follow him or to lead him?” The sister responded, “to follow him.” Mother said, “Why do you insist on leading?” She sent the sister back to the dorm and told her not to come out until she could smile for Jesus. She had no tolerance for complaining or for sour faces. We all know how she lived in desolation for 40+ years.

I believe that it is in these moments of desolation (when we don’t feel God’s presence because other things are happening or not happening) that we enter into Christ’s encounter with sin on the cross. It is Christ’s darkest moment and his moment of triumph.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[PattiDay]

At my parish we celebrate the OF. It’s a noisy place where the parishoners do all the things that were complained of in the OP. One of my first posts here at CAF was about my distress over perceived irreverence in church and during mass, the choir rehersal during rosary before mass, people chit chatting, calling out to one another, running out to attend to the coffey for the ‘fellowship’ after mass.

At some point I became less aware of the distractions. I think it was some unspoken realization that for many in our parish our church is the social as well as spritual center of their lives. If our priest can overlook the distractions, who am I to feel offended.

This parish has become mine. I want to be here. We weren’t given a choice as to whether we would have the EF or OF. The nearest church that has the EF is a 200+ mile round trip. I’d love if we could have the EF here, but it’s not for us to say. There are many places nearby where the Catholic churches have been closed. There is no debate there whether the EF or OF is preferable. I have come to feel grateful that we even have a Catholic church.

 

[Apryl]

What’s worse, I don’t think this is a Catholic issue. I truly believe that we live in a society where good manners are just not observed or even taught. I have given many lectures, taught many theology classes, and go to the movies once a year. People don’t seem to know when to be quiet.

Y’know… I think you’re absolutely right. It is amazing. And it’s as if there is NOISE pollution going on. When you call some people, their phones play music back at you (I call it ear-jacking). It’s constant noises.

Amazing.

And some have let it trickle into the church.

 

[JReducation]

I have a wonderful story about this. Last year, I did a lot of work with Life Teen. I can’t this year, because of my health. I really enjoyed the kids and the program was great. However, I noticed that the kids were very noisy before and after mass. During mass, they were wonderful. But take 500 kids and put them into a church before mass and you hear noise.

To make a long story short . . . our Life Teen meetings have three parts: prayer, social (food and pop), and evangelization. Each week there is a specific topic. One week, the topic was the mass. It was my turn to present. I thought I would speak about the doctrine of the mass, but since I had only 45 minutes, these kids do have to go home and get ready for school, I spoke about reverence and how to get ready for mass. I explained how we use silence in the community. I even gave a little background to the tradition of silence. The kids were mesmerized. They had never heard of Benedictines. Their idea of monks is the TV version. Even the adults did not know that the silence in church, before mass, comes from the monastic tradition. Everyone simply thought that it was a “Catholic thing”. I explained how it became a “Catholic thing” through the work of St. Benedict and St. Basil who built the first churches, as we know them today. The churches before the rise of monasticism were very different. Actually, they were very functional rooms that often serve different uses. Cathedrals doubled as art centers and theaters. The monastery church often became the local church, where great silence was observed.

As I said, the kids were very interested and they asked a lot of question about monasticism and why monks observed such solemn silence. I answered their questions. I then told them how the Blessed Sacrament came to be placed in the main body of the church by St. Francis and why. Then they wanted to know all about that. Of course, they knew that I was a Franciscan. This made it more interesting to them.

The weeks that followed, I observed that the kids who had been at the meeting were shushing the other kids before mass. All of the noise was not gone. The kids were still coming in and settling in. The choir did practice a few songs before mass, but every sound was purposeful. It wasn’t useless chatter.

Some of our modern architecture is almost too bright. Studies have actually shown that the use of bright lights can over stimulate people. That’s why auditoriums and restaurants often avoid florescent lighting. Florescent lighting is cheaper, but it has its drawbacks.

The church has very bright lights and the mass is an evening mass. It looks even brighter when you come inside from the dark evening. The kids came up with a great idea. The lights are turned off before the mass, leaving only the sanctuary lights and the spotlight over the tabernacle that’s on the side altar and another one on the other side altar where there is an icon of the Blessed Mother.

It’s funny, because you can hear the voices approaching the front door and suddenly the chatter stops. We now have 500 teens in a quiet zone. Sometimes it just takes an explanation. We don’t teach rules of deportment anymore. You also have to play with the environment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shin]

Some of our modern architecture is almost too bright. Studies have actually shown that the use of bright lights can over stimulate people. That’s why auditoriums and restaurants often avoid florescent lighting. Florescent lighting is cheaper, but it has its drawbacks.

I am recalling a thread we had discussing a post-Vatican II wreckovator’s achitectural work with before and after pictures. The before picture was dimmer in lighting and darker in architectural materials, the after picture was incredibly bright both in lighting and in coloration and received some compliments because of this.

Little however, I am sure, did some of those who preferred the brighter picture realize the actual psychological effect having a church too brightly lit has on solemnity and silence, as well as peaceful reflection.

Especially in a society that can’t sit still because of overstimulation from too much electronic entertainment.

Many things are done certain ways people would not initially prefer for deeper reasons, reasons overlooked when changes are made and only sometimes discovered after the harm is done.

 

[JReducation]

I am recalling a thread we had discussing a post-Vatican II wreckovator’s achitectural work with before and after pictures. The before picture was dimmer in lighting and darker in architectural materials, the after picture was incredibly bright both in lighting and in coloration and received some compliments because of this.

Little however, I am sure, did some of those who preferred the brighter picture realize the actual psychological effect having a church too brightly lit has on solemnity and silence, as well as peaceful reflection.

Especially in a society that can’t sit still because of overstimulation from too much electronic entertainment.

Many things are done certain ways people would not initially prefer for deeper reasons, reasons overlooked when changes are made and only sometimes discovered after the harm is done.

I think what Shin is saying is that these newer buildings were built with the idea of saving money, being brighter, and more colorful. No one knew about such things as the secondary effects of certain colors and lighting. That’s a relatively new area of study in the neurosciences. We didn’t know these things when these buildings were erected. Brain mapping is a very new technology.

I attended mid-night mass at St. Peter’s Basilica, with the Holy Father presiding. They had very bright lights. It was almost annoying. I don’t know if they were florescent, but they were bright. I saw the same effect. People were restless. That’s a horrible place to be restless, because you can’t leave once the doors are closed behind you. The Swiss Guards will not let you wander around. I remember getting a headache. I called a Guard over and told him my problem. I explained that the lights were bothering me and asked if I could move. Fortunately, I was wearing a habit. He was very nice and led me to a courtyard through a door behind the main altar. I was able to sit there for a few minutes. I think it’s where the guards hangout during mass, because there were about 20 of them there just talking and relaxing. The point is that it was nice and dim.

Churches were not the only buildings erected this way. So were schools, libraries and other places where silence and tranquility should be the norm. Today, we know things that the builders did not know 20-years ago. There was no ill intention here. I call it, serendipity.

The problem is that it’s very expensive to redo some of this work. We’ll have to make the best of it until there is money to fix it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[faithfully]

I have a wonderful story about this…
The weeks that followed, I observed that the kids who had been at the meeting were shushing the other kids before mass. All of the noise was not gone. The kids were still coming in and settling in. The choir did practice a few songs before mass, but every sound was purposeful. It wasn’t useless chatter.

It’s funny, because you can hear the voices approaching the front door and suddenly the chatter stops. We now have 500 teens in a quiet zone. Sometimes it just takes an explanation. We don’t teach rules of deportment anymore. You also have to play with the environment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

THIS IS WHAT I’M TALKING (ok Shouting) ABOUT!!!

I realize you are in more of an authority position… But THIS is what needs to be done… With everyone! I think many have forgotten all the rituals and the meanings. For MANY of us, our Catholic teaching stop when we graduate from either the 8th or the 12th grade… and we forget about things that aren’t put to practice or easily emulated over and over again.

I would love to see this sort of thing written about… and then added to bulletons and such. It’s so important. I think many would grasp the importance, and employ the new found knowledge. Not buck it… unless of course, it’s delivered in a fashion that starts out “hey idiot…” You know???

Thank you for that… and if you do have this written, in more detail, somewhere would you mind sharing??? Thanks so much!

 

[ConstantineTG]

Our former priest says he doesn’t mind baby sounds. If babies start making noise during Mass, he just talks louder. Now those in the age of reason, he has a problem with them if they can’t keep their mouths shut

 

[JReducation]

THIS IS WHAT I’M TALKING (ok Shouting) ABOUT!!!

I realize you are in more of an authority position… But THIS is what needs to be done… With everyone! I think many have forgotten all the rituals and the meanings. For MANY of us, our Catholic teaching stop when we graduate from either the 8th or the 12th grade… and we forget about things that aren’t put to practice or easily emulated over and over again.

I would love to see this sort of thing written about… and then added to bulletons and such. It’s so important. I think many would grasp the importance, and employ the new found knowledge. Not buck it… unless of course, it’s delivered in a fashion that starts out “hey idiot…” You know???

Thank you for that… and if you do have this written, in more detail, somewhere would you mind sharing??? Thanks so much!

No, I have never written it up, because it’s common sense.

We don’t teach deportment in our schools or at home.

Brain maps show how certain lumens and certain colors depress the hippocampus, which controls behavioral inhibition and spatial orientation (among other functions), therefore making it more difficult for some people to get control over their impulses and may even depress spatial orientation, in which case, the person may not have an accurate awareness of the size of the space that he’s in. It may seem larger, thus requiring him or her to speak loudly. The amygdala can also be affected by certain kinds of light or colors. Emotional learning that has previoiusly taken place, may be more difficult to retrieve. The person may not be aware of the import of his behavior. This is information that has been in books since the 1980s.

The story of the Bnedictines and Basilians should be known by anyone who studied early European history.

The story of the Franciscans is included in Medieval studies.

There is nothing new to tell. All I did was pull together what I had studied and simplified it for the kids. Besides, as I have always said. “I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed.” Therefore, I don’t publish what I teach. I may end being embarrassed.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Our former priest says he doesn’t mind baby sounds. If babies start making noise during Mass, he just talks louder. Now those in the age of reason, he has a problem with them if they can’t keep their mouths shut

Babies are supposed to make noise. If your baby does not make noise, he may be deaf or asleep. Either that or you’re the most interesting person in the world.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ConstantineTG]

Babies are supposed to make noise. If your baby does not make noise, he may be deaf or asleep. Either that or you’re the most interesting person in the world.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

My son is generally very good in Church (he’s 8.5 months now). So much so that my son becomes the temptation for the people to do what we have been discussing in this thread. People come up to me to comment how good my son is during Mass, and this is during a time immediately after Mass when I am visibly kneeling and saying my prayers. He verbalizes a bit now but still he doesn’t scream uncontrollably, nor does he cry as long as mommy is within arm’s length.

 

[JReducation]

My son is generally very good in Church (he’s 8.5 months now). So much so that my son becomes the temptation for the people to do what we have been discussing in this thread. People come up to me to comment how good my son is during Mass, and this is during a time immediately after Mass when I am visibly kneeling and saying my prayers. He verbalizes a bit now but still he doesn’t scream uncontrollably, nor does he cry as long as mommy is within arm’s length.

Call me when he’s 18 months old.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[spunjalebi]

Can someone explain to me why talking after Mass is so bad? At my church we have an outer area outside of the sanctuary but enclosed by the building doors called “The Gathering Space.” People are always talking there and the priest meets and talks with people as they leave.