blaming the victim

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salusanimarum17

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It is often said or suggested that “blaming the victim” is never right. Why not? Can victims never do anything wrong? Let’s say an accountant knowingly goes to work for a mobster. Eventually, he gets in a bad situation with a rival mobster, who breaks all of his fingers and says “find a different line of work.” If he complains to me about his broken fingers, why shouldn’t I say “well, take the guy’s advice and find a different line of work. What did you expect when you took that job?”
 
you created a straw man which does support your premise that it is ok to “blame” a victim. Someone knowingly working for the “mob” is not a victim, he or she is an accessory to crime. Usually blaming the victim applies to blaming people for being at the wrong place at the wrong time and then they become a victim of some kind of crime, usually assault, robbery, rape and murder. It is a vague statement to begin with and your attitude seems to be itching for an excuse to “blame the victim”. Try this, someone leaves their home and then accidently leaves the door unlocked. Then some punk opens the door and either robs the place or hides to later assault the owner when he or she returns. Now with your line of thinking here, you would blame the owner for leaving the door unlocked. I would say whether he left the door unlocked or not, that is not an excuse that someone can come in and rob, rape, hurt etc the owner. “Blaming the victim” is excusing the crime. Whether someone was careless, had an error of judgement, made a poor choice, wasn’t thinking does not excuse them from being a victim of a crime. Recently in the area I live in, some teenage girl was sitting in a car with friends late a night smoking pot. Someone came by and started shooting at the car, killing the girl and hurting the others. Now should she be out late smoking pot? Absolutely not but that doesn’t excuse someone shooting at the car and killing her. I think blaming the victim is a slippery slope to go down and what judgement you use against others comes around to you.
 
Well, I presented a scenario and, indeed, the guy was also a criminal. People I know recently did indeed leave their door unlocked and a man came in and stole a purse. Was I wrong to say “You have to lock your doors.”? I don’t think so. Was that statement a way of passing judgment or blaming the victims?

Sometimes, like in the event you recounted, an action (smoking pot somewhere) has no direct connection to the subsequent act (getting shot). I remember the “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” fallacy quite well from my college philosophy classes.

Other times, isn’t there a cause and effect connection?
 
Well, I presented a scenario and, indeed, the guy was also a criminal. People I know recently did indeed leave their door unlocked and a man came in and stole a purse. Was I wrong to say “You have to lock your doors.”? I don’t think so. Was that statement a way of passing judgment or blaming the victims?

Sometimes, like in the event you recounted, an action (smoking pot somewhere) has no direct connection to the subsequent act (getting shot). I remember the “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” fallacy quite well from my college philosophy classes.

Other times, isn’t there a cause and effect connection?
I think they can figure that out on their own, without having salt rubbed into the wound.

Usually, “I’m so sorry that happened” is an appropriate response.
 
Well, I presented a scenario and, indeed, the guy was also a criminal. People I know recently did indeed leave their door unlocked and a man came in and stole a purse. Was I wrong to say “You have to lock your doors.”? I don’t think so. Was that statement a way of passing judgment or blaming the victims?

Sometimes, like in the event you recounted, an action (smoking pot somewhere) has no direct connection to the subsequent act (getting shot). I remember the “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” fallacy quite well from my college philosophy classes.

Other times, isn’t there a cause and effect connection?
Yes, at times, we are responsible to varying degrees. Someone could have no fault whatsoever to having basically “asked for it”.

I used to have a friend of mine who would insist on leaving his car unlocked and apartment. Then, when he would have stuff missing, he would say his stuff was missing. act surprised!

I had tried to persuade him to be prudent, lock his doors, but I think he felt we had to trust our fellow man.

Once, I think he left his watch hanging from his rearview mirror, in his unlocked car, that we all KNEW he left unlocked. Seems to me I remember it disappearing. Another time (we were both volunteers at a home for children…sometimes would have over 100 at one time). Anyway, the kids were VERY creative. I think there was a problem with my lock, or the key, one time, and they knew how to get in without a key!

So, I knew enough about the kids not to leave stuff deliberately unlocked to deliberately tempt them. It would have been bad enough to forget, do it accidentally. However, my friend got robbed over and over and over. In a case like his, I would actually describe it almost like a kind of self sabotage where he refused to take reasonable, and prudent, precaution or ever learn from his mistakes.

I remember talking about leaving doors unlocked to a mutual friend, at the time, and he said, “Trust in God, but** TIE** your camel!”

When we hang out with the wrong crowd, are imprudent, we CAN ask for it, share at least part of the blame for tempting fate.

It would be sort of like someone who, got drunk and/or high, had a prostitute over, late at night, agreed to be bound, and she took his wallet. He would be more responsible than, say, a woman who was walking from her locked car, during the day, in a safe neighborhood, who wasn’t drunk or high, who was robbed, etc.

Robbery, at times, is a crime of opportunity.

Other crimes happen more when we are imprudent in some way, or perhaps, gullible.

We are more likely to be victimized if we walk around late at night, especially in a dangerous neighborhood.

Yes, I think we can share some responsibility in a crime for our lack of good judgement, prudence, etc.
 
If I had a friend, who was robbed, I probably wouldn´t blame at that point, because blame is not helpful. The friend is looking for understanding, and that may not be the way to approach him/her, and less so at that point.

Regret can be helpful but not guilt. Regret helps us grow, learn from our mistakes, but guilt is like poison that just kills and maims everything in its path, destroys relationships, causes untold damage.

I would avoid “should” statements, because most people hearing them tend to become defensive. If one wants to keep that person as a friend in the future, I would say to try to be understanding, that it happens that we let our guard down, make a foolish mistake, trust someone we shouldn´t have.

In one book on verbal self defense, the author listed, “should” statements as “verbal abuse”, in many cases. They were said to come from a “blamer mode”.

When I was once in marital counseling, my counselor told us both to avoid “should” statements like the plague since it tends to only worsen already existing problems, make everything worse, resolve nothing.

I would say that in an ideal world, we should all be able to leave our houses and cars unlocked, but unfortunately, that’s not the world we live in. The world today is quite dangerous to a point some people even go out and get pepperspray or a pistol!

Many of us are sheep among wolves, but even so, I think it’s okay to take precautions, make it harder for a person to rob you. I used to have one of those “clubs” on my car, knowing that someone could cut it off if they wanted to, but they’d normally look for another easier target.

I’d look for another way to phrase it, gently, that, in light of the events, best to keep everything locked up tightly from there on out. Since we can´t undo the past, it will only hurt to blame the person, even though the person may have been fault…through, accidentally, or deliberately, leaving a door unlocked. As a friend, I would offer a “shoulder to cry on” and gently encourage the person to lock up from now on, not to wallow in guilt and blame, to let it go, learn for next time.

On the forum, many a time, I have seen someone posting start, “You SHOULD…” or " you SHOULDN´T…"…or even a stronger verbal attack is “Even YOU should…”…

A lot of why these can be so damaging, verbally, are because of what isn´t directly stated, but implied, understood.

So, although the victims may have even asked for it in going out after dark in a dangerous neighborhood, unaccompanied, using poor judgement, I probably wouldn´t, at that moment, blame that person. I hope I would try to use empathy, at the very least initially, to be supportive, be a friend, and later, I would gently encourage the person to learn from this, be more prudent next time around, take precautions.
 
Well, I presented a scenario and, indeed, the guy was also a criminal. People I know recently did indeed leave their door unlocked and a man came in and stole a purse. Was I wrong to say “You have to lock your doors.”? I don’t think so. Was that statement a way of passing judgment or blaming the victims?

Sometimes, like in the event you recounted, an action (smoking pot somewhere) has no direct connection to the subsequent act (getting shot). I remember the “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” fallacy quite well from my college philosophy classes.

Other times, isn’t there a cause and effect connection?
Yes, I think it is insensitive to tell someone that was robbed that they have to leave their doors locked. I’m sure they can figure out the lesson themselves. Jesus never treated the people that came to Him for help and healing by blaming them for their problems. All of us have done things that could have open us up to be a victim of crime. Sometimes, one can even be careful and cautious and still be a victim of crime. Either way, we should show compassion and concern towards anyone that becomes a victim even if their own choices may have open the door.
 
Yes, I think it is insensitive to tell someone that was robbed that they have to leave their doors locked. I’m sure they can figure out the lesson themselves. Jesus never treated the people that came to Him for help and healing by blaming them for their problems. All of us have done things that could have open us up to be a victim of crime. Sometimes, one can even be careful and cautious and still be a victim of crime. Either way, we should show compassion and concern towards anyone that becomes a victim even if their own choices may have open the door.
:amen:
 
I don’t think that advising someone to lock their door is really the same as blaming the victim automatically means absolving the thief of responsibility, though it may seem that way to the person on the recieving end of it.
 
Yes, I think it is insensitive to tell someone that was robbed that they have to leave their doors locked. I’m sure they can figure out the lesson themselves. Jesus never treated the people that came to Him for help and healing by blaming them for their problems. All of us have done things that could have open us up to be a victim of crime. Sometimes, one can even be careful and cautious and still be a victim of crime. Either way, we should show compassion and concern towards anyone that becomes a victim even if their own choices may have open the door.
Yeah, I think at that point support is more helpful than blame, because if the person was just robbed, circumstance has already been teaching the lesson, already. I don´t know if it’s necessary to heap blame on top of it, because I think it’d just only make the person feel worse, want to go to confide in someone else who will be more understanding and not blaming.

Even if the person was at fault, in part, it’s probably not beneficial. Understanding would go further, also towards the friendship.

Most of us, from time to time, make, even stupid mistakes, if we are truthful with ourselves. From time to time, most of us make mistakes in judgement, in selecting the wrong people to trust.

If you forgot, left your door open, how would you feel if you were robbed, went to a friend, and got blamed?
 
I never really understood this. blaming the person that a bad situation happened to is not the best approach. but it depends on the situation, it’s not a blanket scenario

there is a world of difference between someone who forgot to lock their door the one time and got robbed or the other person who absolutely refuses to and keeps losing his stuff. that being said, someone who does not lock his door is not automatically doing something wrong, just because he doeon’st does not give anyone the right to come and take his stuff, door locked or not

another thing I’ve noticed. someone gets shot/raped in the middle of the day, totally the perpetrator’s fault. same things happens at night, oh well it’s your fault for being out late. why is darkness suddenly a cover for crime. killing and rape is bad at any time of the day.

the person commits the sin is their crime that they need to own up to. no one is asking to be shot or raped, or stolen from
 
I’ve been a victim of crime different times. Part of it is in not being cautious enough. I am trying to remedy this, be more prudent, not go out at night, really, to be in well before 9 pm.

However, I can tell you it really hurt when I was a victim and got blamed on top of it. It hurt VERY much. Yes, I was guilty of a lack of good judgement and prudence, but I didn´t appreciate it. I felt I had already suffered enough.
 
This may **** some people off. No one is completely innocent, yet no one is deserves to be violated. For example, it is not a good idea for a woman to get completely drunk and pass out at a party. IT NEVER EXCUSES THE RAPISTS. It is not good idea for a woman to wear very short skirt that reveals her butt, DOES NOT EXCUSE THE WOLF-WHISTLERS OR CAT-CALLERS.
 
When people blame the victim, I think they want them to act more responsibly, cautiously or be more careful. It is difficult for some people to imagine, sometimes NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO SOMEONE WILL VIOLATE YOU. Some women are dressed completely covered and they are still cat-called. Is the issue the woman or the harassers? Some people are being stalked. Is that there fault they are not observant enough to know they are being stalked? There are some things that are just of out our control. I think everyone should try their best to be careful. BUT GUESS WHAT? WE ARE HUMAN AND MAKE BLUNDERS, ERRORS AND WE FORGET. Does that mean we should be targeted for crime? NO.
 
I think most people do not think they will get stalked, raped, murdered, etc. People should be more careful always, but no one is perfect.
 
No victim deserves what happens to them. I don’t feel even a prostitute deserves to be raped. And as I once said before, in a post a while back on this sort of thing, a woman or girl shouldn’t be attacked just because she might be wearing a short dress. If the butt is showing, that’s a different story (She doesn’t deserve it, I just mean bad fashion statement!) I say, if she’s walking down the street naked, she doesn’t deserve to be raped!
 
It is often said or suggested that “blaming the victim” is never right. Why not? Can victims never do anything wrong? Let’s say an accountant knowingly goes to work for a mobster. Eventually, he gets in a bad situation with a rival mobster, who breaks all of his fingers and says “find a different line of work.” If he complains to me about his broken fingers, why shouldn’t I say “well, take the guy’s advice and find a different line of work. What did you expect when you took that job?”
If a 'victim" does something wrong…he is not a victim.
 
…I say, if she’s walking down the street naked, she doesn’t deserve to be raped!
That is certainly true. Iam not looking at this from the perspective of who “deserves” something, just whether or not it is correct to look at an action as part of a process that resulted in a reaction.

I think the Pope, in the latest airplane interview, said something it is impossible to disagree with: if you’re standing next to someone and curse his mother, don’t be surprised if you get punched in the face. Is it right to punch someone because of that? Maybe not. But, I can understand that expected consequence.
 
If a 'victim" does something wrong…he is not a victim.
That’s not always true. If I break into somebody’s house and end up getting shot, yeah, I’m not really a victim. But, if I get drunk and run my car into the neighbor’s garage, and he comes out and shoots me as I;m slumped over my steering wheel, I’m a victim.
 
That’s not always true. If I break into somebody’s house and end up getting shot, yeah, I’m not really a victim. But, if I get drunk and run my car into the neighbor’s garage, and he comes out and shoots me as I;m slumped over my steering wheel, I’m a victim.
True. Because in the first case, the assumption is that the danger is in progress and the police will not get there in time. In the second case, since you are now passed out, there is no immediate danger and your neighbor can wait for the police to handle it.
 
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