Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

[PerryJ]

I am surprised that this hasn’t been discussed before. It is not by any means a new contention. He joined the faith out of fear and his insecurities of not meeting Christ’s standards made him rethink the Bible and faith verses faith and works. He felt his works would never make him justified in Gods eyes. He misunderstood the concept of faith and works and applied it to his personal life. He was tormented by this thought. Luther in many respects was an internally tortured man.

Both books are very long. I will attempt to find the quotes etc this weekend. I think you will find these thoughts in most current history books concerning Luther. They are not Catholic thoughts by any means.

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

It is troubling to me that the man arguably most responsible for the protestant reformation through a new interpretation of scripture (or at least new emphasis on jusitification through faith without works (his words, faith alone) turned out to be a virulent anti-semite. Its hard to understand how one could be a new creature in Christ and have Christ in their heart and be antisemetic - that is so inconsistent with the gospel. (This isn’t based on the original OP - its been well established that Luther’s later writings were terribly antisemetic).

I’m not judging Luther, however, that is God’s job, not ours - but it should make us all pause as good trees do not produce bad fruit.

Of course - this doesn’t mean he most have been wrong - Judas betrayed Christ and that is not an indictment of Christianity - so Luther’s failing need not be perceived as an indication that all of the reformation is errant. But its disturbing.

Blessings,

Brian

However, Judas is not the leader of Christianity, while Luther led the Protestant “Reformation”, Revolt.

 

[reteeks21]

The difference is that we do not hold out Pope’s to be perfect. We hold that the Holy Spirit protects the teachings of the Church via the Pope and the Magesterium. We also do not hold that the Pope will be provided personal inspiration from the Holy Spirit. A Pope can be ignorant; yet, the Holy Spirit will still protect the teachings of the faith.

Luther changed the faith to meet his own inequity. He was distraught over this lack of adequacy in the confessional. He therefore changed the Bible and its teaching to meet his personal needs. To follow his teachings is to follow his personal inspiration and his personal convictions. To be Protestant appears to mean that one follows the weakness of an individual man. To follow his personal inspiration of the Bible viewed threw his own inadequacy. His weaknesses are demonstrated by quotes and actions recorded in history. The thought that he left the Church because of indulgences is not accurate. It was his personal emotions of inadequcy that caused him to change the concept of the Bible and add the word alone to Romans. Not to understate that he had issues with indulgences as he did; however, this was not the starting point of his departure from the Church. The concept of Faith alone was and is based upon Luther’s feeling of inadequacy during confession.

That’s pretty amazing. Loads of quotes used to start this thread dealt with Luther’s comments about Jews, and when I do the same about popes it gets ignored. In fact, one individual said nothing was blasphemous about them…except they were ignorant, crude, and evil. But hey, he is protected by God, right?

 

[PerryJ]

Typical of people out to bash Luther. He are some quotes about Jews from famous, holy and saintly pontiffs:

Pope Clement VIII: “The Bible itself says that the Jews are an accursed people.”

Pope Saint Pius V: “Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers.” (Hebraeorum Gens)

Pope Benedict XIV: “Furthermore, by means of their particular practice of commerce, they amass a great store of money and then by an exorbitant rate of interest utterly destroy the wealth and inheritance of Christians.” (A Quo Primum)

Pope Clement VIII: “All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. …] Their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live.”

Pope Saint Sylvester I at the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea: “Concerning the prohibition of usury and base gain by the clergy; and concerning the prohibition against conversing or eating with the Jews. No priest shall set money out at interest or take unfair profit or be friendly or sociable with Jews; nor should anyone take food or drink with the Jews; for if this was decreed by the holy apostles, it is incumbent upon the faithful to obey their command; and the synod shall excommunicate any one who does not comply with this order.”

Also, here are some other instances of how Jews have been treated by Catholics throughout history (mass expulsion):

1. 250: Carthage;
2. 415: Alexandria;
3. 554: Diocese of Clement (France);
4. 561: Diocese of Uzzes (France);
5. 612: Visigoth Spain;
6. 642: Visigoth Empire;
7. 855: Italy;
8. 876: Sens;
9. 1012: Mayence;
10. 1181: France;
11. 1290: England;
12. 1306: France;
13. 1348: Switzerland;
14. 1349: Hielbronn (Germany);
15. 1349: Hungary;
16. 1388: Strasbourg;
17. 1394: Germany;
18. 1394: France;
19. 1422: Austria;
20. 1424: Fribourg & Zurich;
21. 1426: Cologne
22. 1432: Savory;
23. 1438: Mainz;
24. 1439: Augsburg;
25. 1446: Bavaria;
26. 1453: Franconis;
27. 1453: Breslau;
28. 1454: Wurzburg;
29. 1485: Vincenza (Italy);
30. 1492: Spain;
31. 1495: Lithuania;
32. 1497: Portugal;
33. 1499: Germany;

This is easily refuted. The Pope’s are the Jewish’es faith strongest supporters and have been for centuries. Catholics within the faith and many monarchies have murdered the Jewish people throughout the centuries. Popes throughout the ages have published Papal bull after Papal bull stating that this murder was intolerant. They also clearly state that the forced conversion of Jews was wrong and was not to be tolerated. Some of the quotes above are mistranslations by Protestant authors that are intentionally misrepresenting the truth. I do not have my secular books with me; however, I will bring them this week and present facts.

 

[Hisalone]

Yes. he was a Catholic who fell away. certainly you guys dont believe what His former Church teaches. right?

Why? Look what you believe and what Catholics believe and what the early Church tought and what your pastors teach today.

peace.

At the time your “church” taught that one could buy a loved one out of the torments of Purgatory by securing a papal indulgence.
That is what upset Luther.

 

[MDK]

It is troubling to me that the man arguably most responsible for the protestant reformation through a new interpretation of scripture (or at least new emphasis on jusitification through faith without works (his words, faith alone) turned out to be a virulent anti-semite. Its hard to understand how one could be a new creature in Christ and have Christ in their heart and be antisemetic - that is so inconsistent with the gospel. (This isn’t based on the original OP - its been well established that Luther’s later writings were terribly antisemetic).

I’m not judging Luther, however, that is God’s job, not ours - but it should make us all pause as good trees do not produce bad fruit.

Of course - this doesn’t mean he most have been wrong - Judas betrayed Christ and that is not an indictment of Christianity - so Luther’s failing need not be perceived as an indication that all of the reformation is errant. But its disturbing.

Blessings,

Brian

To break away from the one Church built by Christ is most definitely errant.

 

[MDK]

Typical of people out to bash Luther. He are some quotes about Jews from famous, holy and saintly pontiffs:

Pope Clement VIII: “The Bible itself says that the Jews are an accursed people.”

Pope Saint Pius V: “Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers.” (Hebraeorum Gens)

Pope Benedict XIV: “Furthermore, by means of their particular practice of commerce, they amass a great store of money and then by an exorbitant rate of interest utterly destroy the wealth and inheritance of Christians.” (A Quo Primum)

Pope Clement VIII: “All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. …] Their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live.”

Pope Saint Sylvester I at the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea: “Concerning the prohibition of usury and base gain by the clergy; and concerning the prohibition against conversing or eating with the Jews. No priest shall set money out at interest or take unfair profit or be friendly or sociable with Jews; nor should anyone take food or drink with the Jews; for if this was decreed by the holy apostles, it is incumbent upon the faithful to obey their command; and the synod shall excommunicate any one who does not comply with this order.”

Also, here are some other instances of how Jews have been treated by Catholics throughout history (mass expulsion):

1. 250: Carthage;
2. 415: Alexandria;
3. 554: Diocese of Clement (France);
4. 561: Diocese of Uzzes (France);
5. 612: Visigoth Spain;
6. 642: Visigoth Empire;
7. 855: Italy;
8. 876: Sens;
9. 1012: Mayence;
10. 1181: France;
11. 1290: England;
12. 1306: France;
13. 1348: Switzerland;
14. 1349: Hielbronn (Germany);
15. 1349: Hungary;
16. 1388: Strasbourg;
17. 1394: Germany;
18. 1394: France;
19. 1422: Austria;
20. 1424: Fribourg & Zurich;
21. 1426: Cologne
22. 1432: Savory;
23. 1438: Mainz;
24. 1439: Augsburg;
25. 1446: Bavaria;
26. 1453: Franconis;
27. 1453: Breslau;
28. 1454: Wurzburg;
29. 1485: Vincenza (Italy);
30. 1492: Spain;
31. 1495: Lithuania;
32. 1497: Portugal;
33. 1499: Germany;

Are you taking the side that usury is acceptable, and is not poor behavior toward your fellow man?

 

[cath2lic4ever]

again. this thread is about what mr. luther said. not what the pope said or whoever! don’t bail mr. luther out. he revolted against the church that JESUS founded and said bad things about him. can’t you guys get it. he blasphemed is that too hard to understand he’s human not GOD!

 

[PerryJ]

This is a bit off subject; however, I wanted to follow up as I received a question concerning my statement that Luther based his theology upon his own weaknesses. Both books that I will present quotes from are not pro-Catholic books. They clearly judge the actions of people within the Catholic faith and show their short comings. Both books are very objective.

Luther’s actions in his life were based upon fear and his own inadequacies. He joined the Church when a violent thunderstorm struck while he was in the forest. To save himself he pledged to St. Anne that he would become a monk. This is important as he did not choose to be a monk, or feel a calling. Note below his actions for his theology on faith “alone” are based upon fear again. Note also that he comes to this realization by juxtaposing part of Romans 1:17. The basis of Protestant reformation as can be seen below is based upon him changing the Bible to meet his fears. The thought that he was a great theologian that reinterpreted the scriptures to free man is not true. It was his feeling of internal fear and inadequacies that built the theology of the reformation.

The concise History of the Catholic Church Thomas Bokenkotter Page 210: As he (Luther) continued with his study of theology, he fell prey to moods of general depression; he suffered terrible trials of anguish of spirit, with sudden spasms of terror and despair gripping his heart, a torment so shattering, he said, that had it lasted even the tenth part of an hour, his bones would have crumbled into ashes. Deeply conscious of his sinfulness and guilt, he felt that any moment he might be struck down by the living God and cast into Hell. Craving certainty, he confessed frequently, even daily fasted and prayed; but he found little relief. And then in the extremes of his agony he even cried out his hatred of God, which in turn exacerbated his feelings of guilt. “For I hoped I might find peace of conscience with fasts, prayer, vigils with which I miserably afflicted my body, but the more I sweated it out like this, the less peace and tranquility I knew,” he wrote … “The crisis was resolved…when I juxtaposed the phrase “justice of God” with “the just man shall live by faith’ in Romans 1:17. It was the starting point and remained the key to his distinctive theology and as such the basis of all subsequent reformation theology. It is clear that in essentials this theology was completed before the beginning of his great struggle in 1517”.

1517 was the time when he became aware of and started to attack the Churches use of indulgences.

The Reformation a History; Diarmaid MacCulloch Page 116: “After all his frequent anxious visits to the confessional to seek forgiveness for his sins, he still felt righteous God’s fury against his sin. Reminiscing later, he said that he had come to hate this God who had given laws in the Old Testament that could not be kept. The answer was to discover that God put aside his wrath as judge for human beings whom he chose as his elect. They received a gift of faith that had nothing to do with their own sinful actions. It was entirely in the will of God to grant this gift…Luther clung to this sense of release through his later career, when the powers of the Church and commonwealth, and worse still the contradictions of his theology within his own mind.

Luther was not a great martyr or theologian. He was just a man that misunderstood the doctrine of “faith and works” and felt inadequate and changed the Bible to meet his personal needs.

 

[MDK]

This is a bit off subject; however, I wanted to follow up as I received a question concerning my statement that Luther based his theology upon his own weaknesses. Both books that I will present quotes from are not pro-Catholic books. They clearly judge the actions of people within the Catholic faith and show their short comings. Both books are very objective.

Luther’s actions in his life were based upon fear and his own inadequacies. He joined the Church when a violent thunderstorm struck while he was in the forest. To save himself he pledged to St. Anne that he would become a monk. This is important as he did not choose to be a monk, or feel a calling. Note below his actions for his theology on faith “alone” are based upon fear again. Note also that he comes to this realization by juxtaposing part of Romans 1:17. The basis of Protestant reformation as can be seen below is based upon him changing the Bible to meet his fears. The thought that he was a great theologian that reinterpreted the scriptures to free man is not true. It was his feeling of internal fear and inadequacies that built the theology of the reformation.

The concise History of the Catholic Church Thomas Bokenkotter Page 210: As he (Luther) continued with his study of theology, he fell prey to moods of general depression; he suffered terrible trials of anguish of spirit, with sudden spasms of terror and despair gripping his heart, a torment so shattering, he said, that had it lasted even the tenth part of an hour, his bones would have crumbled into ashes. Deeply conscious of his sinfulness and guilt, he felt that any moment he might be struck down by the living God and cast into Hell. Craving certainty, he confessed frequently, even daily fasted and prayed; but he found little relief. And then in the extremes of his agony he even cried out his hatred of God, which in turn exacerbated his feelings of guilt. “For I hoped I might find peace of conscience with fasts, prayer, vigils with which I miserably afflicted my body, but the more I sweated it out like this, the less peace and tranquility I knew,” he wrote … “The crisis was resolved…when I juxtaposed the phrase “justice of God” with “the just man shall live by faith’ in Romans 1:17. It was the starting point and remained the key to his distinctive theology and as such the basis of all subsequent reformation theology. It is clear that in essentials this theology was completed before the beginning of his great struggle in 1517”.

1517 was the time when he became aware of and started to attack the Churches use of indulgences.

The Reformation a History; Diarmaid MacCullcoh Page 116: “After all his frequent anxious visits to the confessional to seek forgiveness for his sins, he still felt righteous God’s fury against his sin. Reminiscing later, he said that he had come to hate this God who had given laws in the Old Testament that could not be kept. The answer was to discover that God put aside his wrath as judge for human beings whom he chose as his elect. They received a gift of faith that had nothing to do with their own sinful actions. It was entirely in the will of God to grant this gift…Luther clung to this sense of release through his later career, when the powers of the Church and commonwealth, and worse still the contradictions of his theology within his own mind.

Luther was not a great martyr or theologian. He was just a man that misunderstood the doctrine of “faith and works” and felt inadequate and changed the Bible to meet his personal needs.

It supports the reasons why Luther would do as he did. Weak or false commitment, and I actually call it sickness also and not simply weakness. Please note that others have referred to the word “crazy,” but I call it sickness-induced disordered behavior, obsessive-compulsive and manic depressive disordered behavior. It becomes clear to anyone who objectively looks into Luther, than he made his doctrine to suit himself. My first thought when I read what Luther wrote about doctrine, was that he had some form of mental sickness (more than simple weakness). I found that to be true when reading from people who were sympathetic to Luther, and not from the Catholic Church.

I get no joy in this…, neither regarding him, nor those who follow his misleading and heretical doctrines, nor for those who have been affected by this.

 

[wisdomseeker]

At the time your “church” taught that one could buy a loved one out of the torments of Purgatory by securing a papal indulgence.
That is what upset Luther.

now, present to me how Luther’s behavior was any better? he created a whole new religion based only in hate.
and continues to this day. how do you reconcile the commandment of God of love thy brother with wht Luther did?

do you know the history of Luther’s abusive behavior? how is his behavior any better than some of the CC at the time?

do you see now the results of his actions?

can you imagine if all the apostles had decided to leave Jesus because of the actions of judas? no, instead they remained faithfull to the Truth.

it is written we will suffer temptations but we must remain faithfull until the end to receive salvation. for we dont follow man, we obey and trust the One Who made the promise that His Church would not fail.

 

[cath2lic4ever]

This is a bit off subject; however, I wanted to follow up as I received a question concerning my statement that Luther based his theology upon his own weaknesses. Both books that I will present quotes from are not pro-Catholic books. They clearly judge the actions of people within the Catholic faith and show their short comings. Both books are very objective.

Luther’s actions in his life were based upon fear and his own inadequacies. He joined the Church when a violent thunderstorm struck while he was in the forest. To save himself he pledged to St. Anne that he would become a monk. This is important as he did not choose to be a monk, or feel a calling. Note below his actions for his theology on faith “alone” are based upon fear again. Note also that he comes to this realization by juxtaposing part of Romans 1:17. The basis of Protestant reformation as can be seen below is based upon him changing the Bible to meet his fears. The thought that he was a great theologian that reinterpreted the scriptures to free man is not true. It was his feeling of internal fear and inadequacies that built the theology of the reformation.

The concise History of the Catholic Church Thomas Bokenkotter Page 210: As he (Luther) continued with his study of theology, he fell prey to moods of general depression; he suffered terrible trials of anguish of spirit, with sudden spasms of terror and despair gripping his heart, a torment so shattering, he said, that had it lasted even the tenth part of an hour, his bones would have crumbled into ashes. Deeply conscious of his sinfulness and guilt, he felt that any moment he might be struck down by the living God and cast into Hell. Craving certainty, he confessed frequently, even daily fasted and prayed; but he found little relief. And then in the extremes of his agony he even cried out his hatred of God, which in turn exacerbated his feelings of guilt. “For I hoped I might find peace of conscience with fasts, prayer, vigils with which I miserably afflicted my body, but the more I sweated it out like this, the less peace and tranquility I knew,” he wrote … “The crisis was resolved…when I juxtaposed the phrase “justice of God” with “the just man shall live by faith’ in Romans 1:17. It was the starting point and remained the key to his distinctive theology and as such the basis of all subsequent reformation theology. It is clear that in essentials this theology was completed before the beginning of his great struggle in 1517”.

1517 was the time when he became aware of and started to attack the Churches use of indulgences.

The Reformation a History; Diarmaid MacCulloch Page 116: “After all his frequent anxious visits to the confessional to seek forgiveness for his sins, he still felt righteous God’s fury against his sin. Reminiscing later, he said that he had come to hate this God who had given laws in the Old Testament that could not be kept. The answer was to discover that God put aside his wrath as judge for human beings whom he chose as his elect. They received a gift of faith that had nothing to do with their own sinful actions. It was entirely in the will of God to grant this gift…Luther clung to this sense of release through his later career, when the powers of the Church and commonwealth, and worse still the contradictions of his theology within his own mind.

Luther was not a great martyr or theologian. He was just a man that misunderstood the doctrine of “faith and works” and felt inadequate and changed the Bible to meet his personal needs.

absolutely true perrj. mr. luther misunderstood the doctrine of faith and works bigtime that led him to change the bible to suit his needs. excellent post. GOD bless & prayers to all!

 

[cath2lic4ever]

now, present to me how Luther’s behavior was any better? he created a whole new religion based only in hate.
and continues to this day. how do you reconcile the commandment of God of love thy brother with wht Luther did?

do you know the history of Luther’s abusive behavior? how is his behavior any better than some of the CC at the time?

do you see now the results of his actions?

can you imagine if all the apostles had decided to leave Jesus because of the actions of judas? no, instead they remained faithfull to the Truth.

it is written we will suffer temptations but we must remain faithfull until the end to receive salvation. for we dont follow man, we obey and trust the One Who made the promise that His Church would not fail.

amen

 

[MDK]

At the time your “church” taught that one could buy a loved one out of the torments of Purgatory by securing a papal indulgence.
That is what upset Luther.

On the surface, yes Luther used this as an example. However, this was more like an excuse or rallying cry, as Luther had already developed his anti-Catholic thoughts, though. There were others who remained in the Church built by Christ, who also didn’t like these. However, Luther had no directive from God to do what he did in splintering off from the Church, and losing Apostolic Succession, therefore invalidating the priesthood that he established.

What actually bothered Luther seems to be the way Christ set up and built His one Church, which includes the rock of the Church, Peter and his successors. What is Luther protesting, but the Church established and built by Christ?

Christ built His Church. Luther protested and built one of his own.

 

[khutcheson]

Luther’s actions in his life were based upon fear and his own inadequacies.
The Reformation a History; Diarmaid MacCulloch Page 116: “After all his frequent anxious visits to the confessional to seek forgiveness for his sins, he still felt righteous God’s fury against his sin. Reminiscing later, he said that he had come to hate this God who had given laws in the Old Testament that could not be kept. The answer was to discover that God put aside his wrath as judge for human beings whom he chose as his elect. They received a gift of faith that had nothing to do with their own sinful actions. It was entirely in the will of God to grant this gift…Luther clung to this sense of release through his later career, when the powers of the Church and commonwealth, and worse still the contradictions of his theology within his own mind.

Luther was not a great martyr or theologian. He was just a man that misunderstood the doctrine of “faith and works” and felt inadequate and changed the Bible to meet his personal needs.

A. Don’t we all base our actions on our fears and inadequacies much of the time? I admit that I do.

B. Thanks for the reference to MacCulloch’s work. I just ordered it on Amazon.

 

[MDK]

A. Don’t we all base our actions on our fears and inadequacies much of the time? I admit that I do.

B. Thanks for the reference to MacCulloch’s work. I just ordered it on Amazon.

If God is omnipotent and is love, is it acceptable then to create new theology and doctrine based on fear? As I recall, Christ asks us not to be afraid. Is that also what you recall?

 

[PerryJ]

I see the thread being changed with posts about indulgences and purgatory. Note there were many Catholic Priests that were also against these abuses and worked within the faith to make changes. Luther was not the only one of this time that was against abuses. Nor was the whole Catholic Church corrupt. There are always some within the Church that are corrupt even to this day. We probably have Bishops that probably live to lavishly right now. There will always be goats and sheep within the Church; but, at the time of Luther the Catholic Church was still the largest charitable organization in the world. It was defending the Jewish people from being murdered and was actually printing the Talmud for the Jewish people to worship. It continued to advance science and support the university system. The point of this thread I believe is not to defend every Catholic person. It is why did Luther act the way he did and does it support a change in faith.

 

[khutcheson]

If God is omnipotent and is love, is it acceptable then to create new theology and doctrine based on fear? As I recall, Christ asks us not to be afraid. Is that also what you recall?

It’s not acceptable to create new theology period.

I’m not convinced that Luther did, but to the extent that he did, I would be in complete agreement with you.

 

[chosen_people]

I am neither a Lutheran or a Catholic. And you are correct, there were many terrible things done to each other from all faiths during those times. Many were a product of the times they lived in, such as the views most held on women.

IMHO Martin Luther’s biggest flaw was his hatred toward Jews. I look at him as having a type A personality. I believe he tried to convert them and when they did not respond in the manner that he thought they would he became bitter. He had an abrasive way of speaking when others disagreed with him.

I have never heard some of the other quotes, but the best source is his own works, one such book he wrote 3 yrs before his death, the title of said book is called “On the Jews and Their lies”. Here is the link to the book is anyone is interested. humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm

It would be unfair to say that Modern Lutherans hold to the same beliefs. I will say though it was an unfortunate view, Martin Luther’s writings were used by Hitler to incite antisemitism.

I think there was another thread on this, but here are a few quotes from his book:

The following quote is twisted by many racist people who call themselves Christian to make it fit into a theory known as the serpent seed line.

It is not as shocking though when you think about the time in which it was written. Quite a few of America’s founding fathers were not to fond of the Jewish race either. Benjamin Franklin wanted to exclude them from our Constitution.

I am pretty sure God straightened them out.

The Benjamin Franklin quote found on virulently anti Jewish web sites is a fabrication and hoax. see: adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_intro.asp

 

[strngrnrth]

The Benjamin Franklin quote found on virulently anti Jewish web sites is a fabrication and hoax. see: adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_intro.asp

I just heard of it the other day, I think. One of the main things life has been teaching me is that the world is jam-packed with long stories, conroversies and obsessions I didn’t know existed – and that most people have never heard of most of mine.