Blasphemy???

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Is it Blasphemy to disagree with Church teachings/doctrine and if you do disagree to debate it on this web site? Or should one just be quiet and discuss with their priest and try to accept it even if it does not feel right???
 
Blasphemy (Greek blaptein, “to injure”, and pheme, “reputation”) the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

Heresy (Greek hairesis ‘choice’ ) belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.

Unless one were insulting the Church, they are more likely participating in a heresy.

There are different degrees of heresy, so it is best to speak with a priest.

Peace
 
Jelway said:
Is it Blasphemy to disagree with Church teachings/doctrine and if you do disagree to debate it on this web site? Or should one just be quiet and discuss with their priest and try to accept it even if it does not feel right???
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If a Catholic rejects an infallible Church teaching they commit a sin of grave matter (mortal sin if the three conditions are met) and they also commit heresy. If they reject a non-infallible teaching they do not commit heresy but they do commit a sin of grave matter (mortal sin if the three conditions are met).
The above does not involve blasphemy.

Modern Catholic Dictionary:

BLASPHEMY. Speaking against God in a contemptuous, scornful, or abusive manner. Included under blasphemy are offenses committed by thought, word, or action. Serious contemptuous ridicule of the saints, sacred objects, or of persons consecrated to God is also blasphemous because God is indirectly attacked. Blasphemy is a grave violation of charity toward God. Its gravity may be judged by the capital punishment in the Old Testament, severe penalties of the Church, and in many cases also of the State for blasphemous speech or conduct. In order for a person to sin gravely in this manner, he must use blasphemous expressions and realize the contemptuous meaning of what he says or does. (Etym. Latin blasphemia, blasphemy; from Greek blasphēmein, to speak ill of.)
 
Jelway said:
Is it Blasphemy to disagree with Church teachings/doctrine and if you do disagree to debate it on this web site? Or should one just be quiet and discuss with their priest and try to accept it even if it does not feel right???
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I personally think debate is good simply because you might work out your issue if you understand it differently and that can come through debate. this is a good place for that actually.

If you disagree with a teaching of the Church its not blasphemy I believe that is heresy however if you disagree with church teaching and you receive the Eucharist that can be blasphemy…which is why you are asked to refrain from receiving if you do disagree with something.

Talking to a priest is also a great thing to do but it doesn’t have to be an either or you can do both debate and discuss in private.
 
So… Blasphemy vs Heresy now??? :). So, If you believe a Church teaching is wrong or immoral this is heresy? Is that correct? So if you “think/believe” something that is pretty tough to change your conscious even if you want to. But if you can’t change what you believe because to do so would be against your conscious even if you want to change, then you can not take the Eucharist? Is that correct? Is that not a problem when no Catholic is allowed to even so much as “think” a Catholic interpretation can not be incorrect without ramifications? While I appreciate God made the Church his word, can the Church never be wrong? Yes, there is scripture stating that the Church is his word and so forth. But if you think something is wrong are you supposed to stop taking the Eucharist even if you want to believe in the Church teaching?
 
Jelway said:
So… Blasphemy vs Heresy now??? :). So, If you believe a Church teaching is wrong or immoral this is heresy? Is that correct? So if you “think/believe” something that is pretty tough to change your conscious even if you want to. But if you can’t change what you believe because to do so would be against your conscious even if you want to change, then you can not take the Eucharist? Is that correct? Is that not a problem when no Catholic is allowed to even so much as “think” a Catholic interpretation can not be incorrect without ramifications? While I appreciate God made the Church his word, can the Church never be wrong? Yes, there is scripture stating that the Church is his word and so forth. But if you think something is wrong are you supposed to stop taking the Eucharist even if you want to believe in the Church teaching?
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That’s correct! If you “think” something is wrong with a church teaching then yes you should STOP taking the Eucharist until you come back into line with the teaching!
 
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"The believer accepts the whole deposit as proposed by the Church; the heretic accepts only such parts of it as commend themselves to his own approval. The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness–free choice–is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material.

Towards material heretics her conduct is ruled by the saying of St. Augustine: “Those are by no means to be accounted heretics who do not defend their false and perverse opinions with pertinacious zeal (animositas), especially when their error is not the fruit of audacious presumption but has been communicated to them by seduced and lapsed parents, and when they are seeking the truth with cautious solicitude and ready to be corrected”"

I don’t think anyone on this forum can tell you not to receive Communion.
This is a matter between you and your confessor.
I find it hard to fathom that you are a FORMAL heretic, unless you are a senator or congressman who is pro-abortion or some kind of activist for social change.
If you’re merely stating your opinion on an internet forum, be careful that you are not attempting to lead others to your way of thought.
At baptism, we freely assent to subject ourselves to Church teachings. It is not for us to decide what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’

Peace
 
eightydeuce82 said:
That’s correct! If you “think” something is wrong with a church teaching then yes you should STOP taking the Eucharist until you come back into line with the teaching!
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Really??? So every single clergy person doesn’t even so much as “think” even privately a teaching could be incorrect? Hoping a priest could answer this question as to if it is not acceptable to take Eucharist based if your conscience differs from a Church teaching.
 
Jelway said:
Really??? So every single clergy person doesn’t even so much as “think” even privately a teaching could be incorrect? Hoping a priest could answer this question as to if it is not acceptable to take Eucharist based if your conscience differs from a Church teaching.
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No. This is not correct.
 
Jelway said:
So… Blasphemy vs Heresy now??? :). So, If you believe a Church teaching is wrong or immoral this is heresy? Is that correct? So if you “think/believe” something that is pretty tough to change your conscious even if you want to. But if you can’t change what you believe because to do so would be against your conscious even if you want to change, then you can not take the Eucharist? Is that correct? Is that not a problem when no Catholic is allowed to even so much as “think” a Catholic interpretation can not be incorrect without ramifications? While I appreciate God made the Church his word, can the Church never be wrong? Yes, there is scripture stating that the Church is his word and so forth. But if you think something is wrong are you supposed to stop taking the Eucharist even if you want to believe in the Church teaching?
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When you receive the Eucharist you are not only receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ you are also affirming you believe EVERYTHING the church teaches when you say AMEN. This doesn’t mean you are a mindless drone. It means you respect the teachings of the church and the 2000 years its hammered them out with much more thought, blood and tears than any of us have put into it. When you get caught up in the “I think attitude” that’s when things get a bit crazy. Its very simple these days to get clarification from someone BEFORE you receive the Eucharist. Would you not say that someone who disagrees with something the church teaches has ample resources to rectify this BEFORE they receive? Is it so terrible to ask that the congregation if they have discerned an issue? Yes the bible is clear on this subject…see St. Paul. Yes church history affirms this see the last 2000 years of church history. The Church is the pillar of truth and it can do no wrong. It is specifically this promise by Christ that we can be sure that what the church teaches is correct. Saying its not destroys Christianity and the church.
 
It also pains me to hear you say Catholic interpretation…is there any other valid interpretation?
 
Jelway said:
That was a good read. I like the emphasis on doubts vs disagree. Maybe or at least I hope I doubt as opposed to disagree. Thanks
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Remember doubts can be reconciled. The reason I suggest not partaking is because of the severity of the matter. Remember the Church is the Body of Christ and it is effect incapable of teaching error. Biblically if we have an issue we are supposed to take it to the Church. If our understanding is at odds with the Church we are wrong. Asking a priest or clergy in general their opinion is a great start but you must remember they must teach what the church teaches. The Church is clear on when someone should receive and when they should not. If that differs from the priests perspective opt for the Church. Its only for your own well being.

Can I ask what is it that you doubt? if you don’t mind.
 
eightydeuce82 said:
Remember doubts can be reconciled. The reason I suggest not partaking is because of the severity of the matter. Remember the Church is the Body of Christ and it is effect incapable of teaching error. Biblically if we have an issue we are supposed to take it to the Church. If our understanding is at odds with the Church we are wrong. Asking a priest or clergy in general their opinion is a great start but you must remember they must teach what the church teaches. The Church is clear on when someone should receive and when they should not. If that differs from the priests perspective opt for the Church. Its only for your own well being.

Can I ask what is it that you doubt? if you don’t mind.
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Yes you can certainly ask but I dont think you can change my doubts as those are my problems. Please also do not be offended as to my doubts.

I question NFP being ok as it is very similar to contraception in my mind. I know you can throw 100 or more things at me from the church that says they are different but those things don’t stop my “doubts”

I have doubts that Masterbation is a sin and even if it is one I have doubts that it should be Grave as opposed to be venial.

I have doubts about homosexuals having sex being a sin. I personally can not imagine wanting to have sex with the same sex but that is how I am wired. Homosexuals are wired differently so I struggle with telling them that they are wrong to act on their sexual urges as I don’t see how I could not want to have relations with my wife if someone told me that was wrong.

Even when you remark that the Church is incapable of teaching an error I have my doubts. I hope that is correct but I certainly have doubts on that or at least in that context.

I do not like discussing my doubts as I am now worried about Blasphemy and heresy.
 
Another factor that is important in this discussion is the disposition of the person themselves…whether they are arogant or investigating. Whether they have predetermined the answer they want to hear, or are open to other explanations which may be the truth. Their approach is important.

I will say that there is a difference between a question and a doubt.
A question is the mind searching to understand the faith, but does not question the truth of it.
A doubt is the mind questioning whether the article of faith is true until understood.

“Nor do I seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand.
For this too I believe, that unless I first believe, I shall not understand.”
St. Anselm of Canterbury

From Saint Augustine: “Understanding is the reward given by faith. Do not try to understand in order to believe, but believe in order to understand.”
 
Jelway said:
Yes you can certainly ask but I dont think you can change my doubts as those are my problems. Please also do not be offended as to my doubts.

I question NFP being ok as it is very similar to contraception in my mind. I know you can throw 100 or more things at me from the church that says they are different but those things don’t stop my “doubts”

I have doubts that Masterbation is a sin and even if it is one I have doubts that it should be Grave as opposed to be venial.

I have doubts about homosexuals having sex being a sin. I personally can not imagine wanting to have sex with the same sex but that is how I am wired. Homosexuals are wired differently so I struggle with telling them that they are wrong to act on their sexual urges as I don’t see how I could not want to have relations with my wife if someone told me that was wrong.

Even when you remark that the Church is incapable of teaching an error I have my doubts. I hope that is correct but I certainly have doubts on that or at least in that context.

I do not like discussing my doubts as I am now worried about Blasphemy and heresy.
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You are right I can justify every single one of those teachings both biblically and through tradition as well as the natural law with cooperating scientific studies. Ill spare you since you don’t seem to receptive. If you are struggling like that I am sorry. You are not the first and will not be the last I’m sure. What I was not aware was the gravity of your struggles and would politely say that you should avoid the Eucharist until you make your decision. This isn’t in any way trying to be mean or insulting I’m just concerned for your soul.

What I will leave you with since you are a catholic is this. Do you or do you not believe Christ established a Church leaving it the gift of infallibility to govern here on earth as the scripture and 2000 years of tradition states? Or is the bible wrong and the church misguided somehow despite the promises of Christ?
 
Is the Bible correct? There are definitely certain things in the bible that are contradictory and some would even say most definitely incorrect. That is one of the things I Love about Catholicism. It is that Catholics know the Bible is not meant to be translated literally as Fundamentalists do. The dilemma I have is exactly where you are asking me questions. When it comes down to the Church teachings the Bible must be taken literally/fundamentally in the Church being Infallible but the when it comes to other things then those are not black and white and the Church translates their meaning for us and we have to take that as 100% proof.

I know you mention you could show me evidence as you mention below but most if not all of that evidence is simply backed by the Church. There are academics who would debate otherwise. I am definitely open to new things/thoughts but I have heard so many that just don’t add up unless you/me fall back on the “Infallibility” clause.

I am trying to believe and I am not saying I don’t. But “Doubts” are strong and I wish they were not. I think I need someone without a vested interest to back up some things as naturally people with a vested interest including myself tend to look at things much differently because that is naturally what they want to do. For example, me being a Catholic wants things that do not make sense to me to make sense. A non-Catholic would simply say that is why being a Catholic is illogical rather than try to reconcile it. I suppose no different than how a Baptist would look at their beliefs and a Muslim their own. All or most religions can point to their way being infallible can they not? It just depends on who is making the argument.

My Choice is Catholic but I do have doubts as to some of the things that are taught. Do I teach my Children otherwise? Nope, I don’t. But that part scares me. God gave us a conscience and a mind which I believe we are supposed to use. That my friend is my dilemma. I feel like I have to shut those down to not have my doubts on certain issues as I have my “doubts” that the church is 100% correct on 100% of items.

Also, Please do not think I am writing to cause trouble here. I am writing to try and be a better Catholic and get understanding and clarity and due to possible Blasphemy I actually am very uncomfortable even talking about this.
 
Jelway said:
Is the Bible correct? There are definitely certain things in the bible that are contradictory and some would even say most definitely incorrect. That is one of the things I Love about Catholicism. It is that Catholics know the Bible is not meant to be translated literally as Fundamentalists do. The dilemma I have is exactly where you are asking me questions. When it comes down to the Church teachings the Bible must be taken literally/fundamentally in the Church being Infallible but the when it comes to other things then those are not black and white and the Church translates their meaning for us and we have to take that as 100% proof.

I know you mention you could show me evidence as you mention below but most if not all of that evidence is simply backed by the Church. There are academics who would debate otherwise. I am definitely open to new things/thoughts but I have heard so many that just don’t add up unless you/me fall back on the “Infallibility” clause.

I am trying to believe and I am not saying I don’t. But “Doubts” are strong and I wish they were not. I think I need someone without a vested interest to back up some things as naturally people with a vested interest including myself tend to look at things much differently because that is naturally what they want to do. For example, me being a Catholic wants things that do not make sense to me to make sense. A non-Catholic would simply say that is why being a Catholic is illogical rather than try to reconcile it. I suppose no different than how a Baptist would look at their beliefs and a Muslim their own. All or most religions can point to their way being infallible can they not? It just depends on who is making the argument.

My Choice is Catholic but I do have doubts as to some of the things that are taught. Do I teach my Children otherwise? Nope, I don’t. But that part scares me. God gave us a conscience and a mind which I believe we are supposed to use. That my friend is my dilemma. I feel like I have to shut those down to not have my doubts on certain issues as I have my “doubts” that the church is 100% correct on 100% of items.

Also, Please do not think I am writing to cause trouble here. I am writing to try and be a better Catholic and get understanding and clarity and due to possible Blasphemy I actually am very uncomfortable even talking about this.
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I understand its uncomfortable but it happens to be the situation you are in. You are here for a reason correct? I certainly tend to think so. Time to face the issue don’t you think? There is no trouble friend these things are very common. If you give me a bit of time to get everything together for you id appreciate it. Shouldn’t take me long!
 
Thank you for your understanding. It is difficult for me to post on here without feeling like I am attacking Catholicism or the people defending it or having people misunderstand me and think I am being hostile which I know can appear that way. It is very difficult actually being honest about my feelings here. I have confession tonight as well:)
 
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