Blessed are the Meek - Answering JW's

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paramedicgirl

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I had a vist from JW’s this morning and was able to talk from a Catholic perspective about their strange beliefs on Jesus as St. Michael the archangel, hell and the eternal soul and the Trinity (thanks the the CA book Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses) 🙂

When I brought up their belief that only 144,000 will go to heaven and are they concerned that they might be left out, they replied that they consider themselves meek and that the meek will inherit the earth. The lady said she would not be going to heaven, she would be one of the meek who possess the earth. How do I respond to this?
 
paramedicgirl - The scripture that states that the “meek inherit the earth” (Matthew 5:5), actually helps to show that the belief in two different hopes for Christians (heavenly and earthly) is not correct. Here’s the entire Beatitudes, along with emphasis on the rewards.

The Beatitudes (Matthew 5:3-12 RSV)

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for **they shall inherit the earth. **
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for **they shall be called sons of God. **
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for **theirs is the kingdom of heaven. **
Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Notice the rewards. “Inheriting the Earth” might sound to some like the JW hope of living in a paradise Earth.

But notice the other hopes that Jesus is holding out to the same people; “seeing God”, being “sons of God”, having “the kindom of Heaven”, having a “reward in Heaven”. This is all terminology that JWs understand to apply to the “heavenly class”, or the 144,000.

So what this is showing is that it is one hope being held out, not two. The same people who will “see God”, be “sons of God”, have the “kingdom of Heaven”, and a “reward in Heaven”, are the same ones who will “inherit the Earth”. It is all part of *one hope. *

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call

A very good analysis of the – JW “two hope” belief, from a Catholic perspective, is found here:
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/onehope.html
and also here:
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteach3.html

Hope that helps. AHF
 
Thanks for your help! Now I’ll be prepared for next week when they come back. (If they come back)
 
Hi

you may want to ask them about

“this generation” being 1914 generation dying out

also, ask them to show you where in scripture it says the son of god is micheal the archangel. they will go to verses about micheal, and keep asking them where in this verse does it say son of god or jesus?
 
If they talk about the Holy Trinity, here are some scriptures you
can point out to them, ( hope this helps you out some )

Mt. 28:19, Jn 14: 26 and 15: 26, 2 Cor 13: 14 and
Jn 1: 1-2, 14 and 18, 1 Pe 1:2.
Jn 3: 3, 5, 7, 15 - 16
Jn 5: 18
Jn 6: 29
Jn 14: 6 - 10, 16 - 17
Hebrews 10: 15 - 18
1 Pe 3: 18 - 19
1 Jn 5: 20 and 6 - 8
Rev 19: 11 - 16 and 22: 12 - 17

Note: In John 1:1 the witnesses changed that in their nwt.
their version reads " the word was a god" when in fact it
should read: " The Word was God" ( they use this to deny the Trinity)
 
Hi,

Is it true that this teaching has recently changed? I heard that some “new light” was received by the WBTS and it does not mean that the End will come when or before the last of the 1914 generation dies. I ask because my JW friend was spouting on about how near it must be (he can’t wait!) since this is true. It took all of my restraint NOT to interupt to ask hadn’t there been new light on this and that that teaching was no longer held! Imagine me telling him his own doctrine!!! 😃 Now that would have been funny! ROFLOL
Daniel Marsh:
Hi

you may want to ask them about

“this generation” being 1914 generation dying out

also, ask them to show you where in scripture it says the son of god is micheal the archangel. they will go to verses about micheal, and keep asking them where in this verse does it say son of god or jesus?
Click to expand...
 
It took all of my restraint NOT to interupt to ask hadn’t there been new light on this and that that teaching was no longer held!
Click to expand...
You have more restraint than I do. I would have flat out asked and then waited to hear how they’re getting around it these days. I call jws on everything I can in order to, hopefully, make them think outside the wt box.
 
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catsrus:
You have more restraint than I do. I would have flat out asked and then waited to hear how they’re getting around it these days. I call jws on everything I can in order to, hopefully, make them think outside the wt box.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean. I must explain myself though. I have worked very hard to build up my “interested” status with my friend and asking him that would have sent alarm bells ringing that I had been researching the WBTS (and we nearly fell out over that b4) so I know when I can bring up things to plant my seeds of doubt and when it would just be detrimental to point out stuff. But you should keep doing it if you can. Mine is such a delicate operation that I just cannot afford to blow it.
 
At His Feet:
paramedicgirl - The scripture that states that the “meek inherit the earth” (Matthew 5:5), actually helps to show that the belief in two different hopes for Christians (heavenly and earthly) is not correct. Here’s the entire Beatitudes, along with emphasis on the rewards.

The Beatitudes (Matthew 5:3-12 RSV)

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for **they shall inherit the earth. **
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for **they shall be called sons of God. **
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for **theirs is the kingdom of heaven. **
Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Notice the rewards. “Inheriting the Earth” might sound to some like the JW hope of living in a paradise Earth.

But notice the other hopes that Jesus is holding out to the same people; “seeing God”, being “sons of God”, having “the kindom of Heaven”, having a “reward in Heaven”. This is all terminology that JWs understand to apply to the “heavenly class”, or the 144,000.

So what this is showing is that it is one hope being held out, not two. The same people who will “see God”, be “sons of God”, have the “kingdom of Heaven”, and a “reward in Heaven”, are the same ones who will “inherit the Earth”. It is all part of *one hope. *

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call

A very good analysis of the – JW “two hope” belief, from a Catholic perspective, is found here:
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/onehope.html
and also here:
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteach3.html

Hope that helps. AHF
Click to expand...
AHF, do you know of any other biblical verses that specifically refute the “paradise on earth” belief of the JW’s? Just in case they mention more, I want to pre-read them.
 
paramedicgirl - What JWs do is take the scriptural references to the “new heavens and new earth” and use them to support the unscriptural doctrine that there are ultimately two hopes for redeemed mankind. In their speech and literature they frequently use the phrase “New Earth” by itself, but the average JW probably doesn’t realize that the phrase “New Earth” is never used alone in scripture. (prove it to yourself - here is a searchable RSV Bible online where you can search for the phrase New Earth etext.virginia.edu/rsv.browse.html -it always occurs with “New Heavens”)

Here are the passages where “new heavens and new earth” occur:

** Isaiah 65:17** For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

** Isaiah 66:22** For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before me, says the LORD; so shall your descendants and your name remain.

** 2 Peter 2:13** But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

** Revelation 21:1** Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

At the end of Revelation (chs 20 and 21) it is used to describe the “final state” of redeemed mankind. Here is what the article “Is Your Hope Bible Based” (linked below) has to say about the “new heaven and new earth”:

"Historic Christianity affirms there will be both a new heaven and a new earth. Revelation chapters 21 and 22 seem to indicate there will be** some sort of uniting of heaven and earth**, when the New Jerusalem descends from heaven. (We are not told exactly how this uniting of heaven and earth will take place. Nor do we know what sort of physical changes may be required.) This is what some call “the final state.” " (emphasis added)

(I highly recommend that anyone interested in the subject read that entire article; because the JW hope of “paradise earth” is tied up with their “two hope” doctrine, both are discussed)
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/onehope.html

The end of Revelation describes “New Jerusalem” “Coming down out of heaven” to Earth.
**
Revelation 21:2-3** And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;

Interestingly, Catholics take those verses more lilterally than JWs do. JWs say that New Jerusalem “comes down” only in the sense of it’s* effects coming down, and that God is with man only in a symbolic* way. If you’re looking for a passage to show that the “New Earth” (remember - never used alone!) will somehow be radically different than what we know of the earth now, that seems like it.

You might ask the questions - Do you believe that New Jerusalem will come down out of heaven? Do you believe that the dwelling of God will be with men?

(In fact they don’t even take the phrase “new earth” literally; in their literature they say it is a “new human society” - but compare Matt 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)

To support that all creation will somehow be radically changed:

** Romans 8:19, 21**: For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;… because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The analysis of ch 3 of the new WT book “What Does the Bible Really Teach” on the above site is also very good:
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteach3.html
 
Hey, thanks! This really helps me out! I am reading the CA book, “Answering JW’s” and what you say corresponds really well with what I just read there. It’s great to have so much help available here from people who are willing to share. 🙂
 
A couple of things you may want to consider. My RSVCE says in Matthew 5, …they shall inherit the land. It doesn’t say Earth. The JW’s place a lot of emphasis on Psalm 37:29. The NWT says, “The righteous themselves will posess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.”

I checked over 25 versions of the Bible. The NWT is the only one that uses the word “earth” in Psalm 37:29, all the rest use the word “land”.

You may want to do some thinking about the meaning of the word “land” in relation to the “promised land”, the “land of Israel” and how they relate to the new covenant. Then use this in your discussion with them.

You may also want to ask JW’s why their translators used “earth” in Ps 37:29 when most, if not all, others used “land”. They may not appreciate the question, but they are the ones who make it a point to say, “We can use any Bible to show our beliefs”.

Don’t forget to say little one line prayers when talking with them. Two of my favorites are “Come Holy Spirit fill the hearts of Thy faithful”, and “Immaculate Heart of Mary, I place my trust in You”.
 
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mkarzon:
A couple of things you may want to consider. My RSVCE says in Matthew 5, …they shall inherit the land. It doesn’t say Earth. The JW’s place a lot of emphasis on Psalm 37:29. The NWT says, “The righteous themselves will posess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.”

I checked over 25 versions of the Bible. The NWT is the only one that uses the word “earth” in Psalm 37:29, all the rest use the word “land”.

You may want to do some thinking about the meaning of the word “land” in relation to the “promised land”, the “land of Israel” and how they relate to the new covenant. Then use this in your discussion with them.

You may also want to ask JW’s why their translators used “earth” in Ps 37:29 when most, if not all, others used “land”. They may not appreciate the question, but they are the ones who make it a point to say, “We can use any Bible to show our beliefs”.

Don’t forget to say little one line prayers when talking with them. Two of my favorites are “Come Holy Spirit fill the hearts of Thy faithful”, and "Immaculate Heart of Mary, I place my trust in You".
Click to expand...
Do you say these out loud? I wonder what their expressions would be? 😉
 
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