Blessing before Gospel?

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TheExorcist

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Hi all,

I’m currently studying to come into the church at an FSSP parish, so the EF is my normal. However I’m always up for a liturgical adventure so I like to visit as many OF parishes as I can just to see what sort of variety there is. I attended a 6pm Sunday night Mass at one of our local parishes. I assume this must be their most “loose” Mass (guitar, bass, drums w evangelical style music). There were two priests present behind the altar. As the congregation was singing the Gospel Acclamation the assisting priest bowed slightly in front of the celebrating priest who gave the assisting priest some sort of blessing. Is this customary? I’ve never seen it before.*

Thanks!

Charles
 
Are you sure the second man was a priest and not a deacon? Before he reads the Gospel the Deacon asks the celebrant for his blessing, saying, “Your blessing, Father.” The priest blesses him saying, “May the Lord be in your heart.”

I can’t say that I’ve ever noticed if a concelebrant does this too.
 
Phemie said:
Are you sure the second man was a priest and not a deacon? Before he reads the Gospel the Deacon asks the celebrant for his blessing, saying, “Your blessing, Father.” The priest blesses him saying, “May the Lord be in your heart.”

I can’t say that I’ve ever noticed if a concelebrant does this too.
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I looked pretty hard at his vestments. Aren’t deacons supposed to wear a sash? To distinguish them from priests?
 
Deacons also wear a dalmatic, it is similar to the chasuble that priest’s wear. But the dalmatic has sleeves.
 
A priest will not ask another priest for a blessing before reading the Gospel but a deacon will. I’m sure it was a deacon.

The deacon will face the priest during the acclamation and say, “Your blessing, Father.”

The priest will reply, “May the Lord be in your heart and on your lips, that you may proclaim his Gospel worthily and well, in the name of the Father +] and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

I’m not sure how it works in the presence of a Bishop, but the above rubrics are observed at all OF Masses I can ever remember when a priest celebrates and a deacon assists.

If the priest is alone, he will usually bow beefore the altar and say quietly, “Cleanse my heart and my lips, almighty God, that I may worthily proclaim your holy Gospel.”

-Tim-
 
DarrenOglesby said:
Deacons also wear a dalmatic, it is similar to the chasuble that priest’s wear. But the dalmatic has sleeves.
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DCNBILL said:
He may have been wearing a dalmatic over his stole, it looks very much like the chasuble but it has sleeves.

http://www.almy.com/UI/CMAlmyImages/Keyword/k_39434_d.jpg
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Ah ok. Now I’m almost 100% certain that he was a deacon. Yes the dalmatic looked A LOT like a chasuble.

Thanks for clearing up the mystery.

Charles
 
TimothyH said:
A priest will not ask another priest for a blessing before reading the Gospel but a deacon will. I’m sure it was a deacon. It is customary if the celebrant is not proclaiming the Gospel, the proclaimer of the Gospel should ask for a blessing, priest or deacon, doesn’t matter.

The deacon will face the priest during the acclamation and say, “Your blessing, Father.”

The priest will reply, “May the Lord be in your heart and on your lips, that you may proclaim his Gospel worthily and well, in the name of the Father +] and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

I’m not sure how it works in the presence of a Bishop, but the above rubrics are observed at all OF Masses I can ever remember when a priest celebrates and a deacon assists. The proclaimer of the Gospel, priest or deacon (however if the bishop is the celebrant more than likely he will have a deacon) will ask the Bishop for the blessing in the same manner, “Your blessing Father?”

If the priest is alone, he will usually bow beefore the altar and say quietly, “Cleanse my heart and my lips, almighty God, that I may worthily proclaim your holy Gospel.”

-Tim-
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TheExorcist said:
Ah ok. Now I’m almost 100% certain that he was a deacon. Yes the dalmatic looked A LOT like a chasuble.
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How could you be attending EF Masses and not noticed that deacons wear the dalmatic (if fact, at EF Masses, the sub-deacons wear tunicles which are incredibly similar to the dalmatic). They are a lot more common in EF Masses than they are at OF Masses (generally deacons in OF Masses just wear an alb and deacon’s stole.)

I’m not trying to start something. And don’t take it that way, please. But you should be more observant.
 
TheExorcist said:
Hi all,

I’m currently studying to come into the church at an FSSP parish, so the EF is my normal. However I’m always up for a liturgical adventure so I like to visit as many OF parishes as I can just to see what sort of variety there is. I attended a 6pm Sunday night Mass at one of our local parishes. I assume this must be their most “loose” Mass (guitar, bass, drums w evangelical style music). There were two priests present behind the altar. As the congregation was singing the Gospel Acclamation the assisting priest bowed slightly in front of the celebrating priest who gave the assisting priest some sort of blessing. Is this customary? I’ve never seen it before.*

Thanks!

Charles
Click to expand...
What is a “liturgical adventure” and why are you always up for one?

Thanks for clarifying.
 
PacoG said:
How could you be attending EF Masses and not noticed that deacons wear the dalmatic (if fact, at EF Masses, the sub-deacons wear tunicles which are incredibly similar to the dalmatic). They are a lot more common in EF Masses than they are at OF Masses (generally deacons in OF Masses just wear an alb and deacon’s stole.)

I’m not trying to start something. And don’t take it that way, please. But you should be more observant.
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The OP indicated he is just studying to come into the Church. Perhaps his focus during Mass is appropriately on something other than differences in liturgical vesture - a difference, judging from people at our OF parish - where the deacon DOES wear a dalmatic thank you - lost on most parish members with much more experience of Church than the OP. I don’t think the original question was inappropriate at all.
 
PacoG said:
How could you be attending EF Masses and not noticed that deacons wear the dalmatic (if fact, at EF Masses, the sub-deacons wear tunicles which are incredibly similar to the dalmatic). They are a lot more common in EF Masses than they are at OF Masses (generally deacons in OF Masses just wear an alb and deacon’s stole.)

I’m not trying to start something. And don’t take it that way, please. But you should be more observant.
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I don’t often have the opportunity to attend EF Masses but, when I have, there has never even been a deacon. Frankly, I am just grateful to have a priest to say the Mass in the EF.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
The OP indicated he is just studying to come into the Church. Perhaps his focus during Mass is appropriately on something other than differences in liturgical vesture - a difference, judging from people at our OF parish - where the deacon DOES wear a dalmatic thank you - lost on most parish members with much more experience of Church than the OP. I don’t think the original question was inappropriate at all.
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I did not say that the deacon doesn’t wear a dalmatic in the OF (you’re not welcome). I said that it is less common in the OF.
 
Cat said:
What is a “liturgical adventure” and why are you always up for one?

Thanks for clarifying.
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I guess with my limited experience in the church any form of the Mass/liturgy I haven’t seen yet is an “adventure”. Maybe a bit sacrilegious to describe it that way, but sometimes it feels that way (getting the rise posture at the right time, being on the right page/place for the correct responses when responses are appropriate and generally understanding what’s going on as much as possible). For example there is a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic parish a couple cities over and I went out for their Saturday Vespers/Divine Liturgy. Turns out I was the only person who showed up for that particular service. Luckily Father recognized this and called out page numbers so I could follow along as much as possible followed by a quick Liturgy of St Basil the Great tutorial and Eastern Catholicism in general. Im always up for it because just because Im not familiar with a particular service/liturgy/worship style Im not afraid to just GO, dig in and try to understand it.
PacoG said:
How could you be attending EF Masses and not noticed that deacons wear the dalmatic (if fact, at EF Masses, the sub-deacons wear tunicles which are incredibly similar to the dalmatic). They are a lot more common in EF Masses than they are at OF Masses (generally deacons in OF Masses just wear an alb and deacon’s stole.)

I’m not trying to start something. And don’t take it that way, please. But you should be more observant.
Click to expand...
Even though Im studying at an FSSP parish I’ve only been able to attend Low Mass (as family circumstances have kept me from High Mass), so I don’t know what the forms of the High Mass or Missa Canata look like. I don’t know the circumstances of using deacons in the EF as I am still learning. We will however have one during Holy Week. There is a seminarian coming out from Our Lady of Guadalupe that will act in that capacity for us during that week, with the priest not acting as celebrant acting as sub deacon. So that will be nice to finally see that in my parish.
 
TheExorcist said:
Even though Im studying at an FSSP parish I’ve only been able to attend Low Mass (as family circumstances have kept me from High Mass), so I don’t know what the forms of the High Mass or Missa Canata look like. I don’t know the circumstances of using deacons in the EF as I am still learning. We will however have one during Holy Week. There is a seminarian coming out from Our Lady of Guadalupe that will act in that capacity for us during that week, with the priest not acting as celebrant acting as sub deacon. So that will be nice to finally see that in my parish.
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Just one clarification: please don’t think I meant any offense. I have a tendency to see every detail. I didn’t mean any offense by my question.
 
Phemie said:
The priest blesses him saying, “May the Lord be in your heart.”
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TimothyH:
The priest will reply, “May the Lord be in your heart and on your lips, that you may proclaim his Gospel worthily and well, in the name of the Father +] and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
Click to expand...
Why the difference?

  1. *]Is the former a Phemie condensation of the full blessing?
    *]Is there a Canadian/American difference?
    *]Is there a French/English difference?
    *]Is this something that is not explicitly prescribed, so there is legitimate variation?
 
Digitonomy said:
Why the difference?

  1. *]Is the former a Phemie condensation of the full blessing?
    *]Is there a Canadian/American difference?
    *]Is there a French/English difference?
    *]Is this something that is not explicitly prescribed, so there is legitimate variation?
Click to expand...

  1. I quoted that from the GIRM “Mass with a Deacon” section. Although there is no ellipsis to indicate that the entire blessing is not there, that may be the explanation.

    I’ve checked both the most recent GIRM (Canadian & UK) and the old one (American). They are the same. The UK one also includes the blessing in Latin “Dominus sit in corde tuo.”
 
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