Blessing by the congregation during Mass

[mullenpm]

What do you mean by “lay minister”?

 

[onetimeposter]

Does the Church profess that only their ordained clergy can perform a worth while blessing?

Do they actually teach that a blessing from the laity, the ’ Royal Priesthood’ isn’t worth very much?

Can’t anyone ask God to bless something? Does God only bless things if an ordained priest makes the request?

 

[benedictgal]

What do you mean by “lay minister”?

Allow me to refer you to the definitions, as listed in the document issued by the Congregation for Clergy:

§ 1. “For some time now, it has been customary to use the word ministries not only for the officia (officies) and non-ordained (functions) munera exercised by Pastors in virtue of the sacrament of Orders, but also for those exercised by the lay faithful in virtue of their baptismal priesthood. The terminological question becomes even more complex and delicate when all the faithful are recognized as having the possibility of supplying-by official deputation given by the Pastors-certain functions more proper to clerics, which, nevertheless, do not require the character of Orders. It must be admitted that the language becomes doubtful, confused, and hence not helpful for expressing the doctrine of the faith whenever the difference ‘of essence and not merely of degree’ between the baptismal priesthood and the ordained priesthood is in any way obscured”.(54)

§ 2. "In some cases, the extension of the term “ministry” to the munera belonging to the lay faithful has been permitted by the fact that the latter, to their own degree, are a participation in the one priesthood of Christ. The officia temporarily entrusted to them, however, are exclusively the result of a deputation by the Church. Only with constant reference to the one source, the ‘ministry of Christ’ (…) may the term ministry be applied to a certain extent and without ambiguity to the lay faithful: that is, without it being perceived and lived as an undue aspiration to the ordained ministry or as a progressive erosion of its specific nature.

In this original sense the term ministry (servitium) expresses only the work by which the Church’s members continue the mission and ministry of Christ within her and the whole world. However, when the term is distinguished from and compared with the various munera and officia, then it should be clearly noted that only in virtue of sacred ordination does the work obtain that full, univocal meaning that tradition has attributed to it." (55)

§ 3. The non-ordained faithful may be generically designated “extraordinary ministers” when deputed by competent authority to discharge, solely by way of supply, those offices mentioned in Canon 230, § 3(56) and in Canons 943 and 1112. Naturally, the concrete term may be applied to those to whom functions are canonically entrusted e.g. catechists, acolytes, lectors etc.

Temporary deputation for liturgical purposes — mentioned in Canon 230, § 2 — does not confer any special or permanent title on the non-ordained faithful.(57)

It is unlawful for the non-ordained faithful to assume titles such as “pastor”, “chaplain”, “coordinator”, " moderator" or other such similar titles which can confuse their role and that of the Pastor, who is always a Bishop or Priest.(58)

I realize this is lengthy, but, it is better to get the explanation from the Holy See rather than one’s own interpretation.

 

[benedictgal]

Does the Church profess that only their ordained clergy can perform a worth while blessing?

Do they actually teach that a blessing from the laity, the ’ Royal Priesthood’ isn’t worth very much?

Can’t anyone ask God to bless something? Does God only bless things if an ordained priest makes the request?

There are formulas for lay blessings; however, if a blessing occurs in some liturgical or sacramental (Marriage, Annointing, Baptism, Confirmation) context, then, the ordained clergy are the ones to give the blessing. That is where the distinction lies. Furthermore, if the priest and the laity are together, the blessing falls to the priest, not the lay person.

 

[Walking_Home]

There are formulas for lay blessings; however, if a blessing occurs in some liturgical or sacramental (Marriage, Annointing, Baptism, Confirmation) context, then, the ordained clergy are the ones to give the blessing. That is where the distinction lies. Furthermore, if the priest and the laity are together, the blessing falls to the priest, not the lay person.

---

You are right benedictgal. As can be seen here in the CCC—blessings during Mass would fall under the ecclesial and sacramental life—therefore are reserved to the ordained (bishops, priests, deacons).

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c4a1.htm

1669 Sacramentals derive from the baptismal priesthood: every baptized person is called to be a “blessing,” and to bless.172 Hence lay people may preside at certain blessings;** the more a blessing concerns ecclesial and sacramental life, the more is its administration reserved to the ordained ministry (bishops, priests, or deacons)**.173

 

[mullenpm]

Thank you Benedictgal,

I don’t like that title “lay minister” and I certainly don’t like the lay congregation being called the “Royal Priesthood”; but, I suppose if that is the terminology now used one must accept it, like it or not. I am happy the terms are not used in my Parish.

 

[scylla]

We are a Royal Priesthood by nature of our Baptism.

Yet to blur the lines between the Common Priesthood and the Instituted Priesthood Christ initiated is a terrible sin.

When we gather in the Church the Priest now stands in Persona Christi and we should acknowledge that in our attitude and actions. It is an insult to Christ to blur the lines because it is essentially saying that His actions don’t really matter, we do what we want. Humility is expressed in representing truth and submitting to it, not by blurring truth and asserting ourselves.

The Priest should only give blessings during Mass as doing this exalts Christ, puts Jesus as center and recognizes the Power of Christ in the Priesthood. To allow everyone to “bless” diminishes Christ and puts people as most important.

Which is why this is so popular with those people who don’t recognize the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist as they like to focus primarily on the people rather than Christ. Anything that exalts people above Christ is desirable to them as long as it can be snuck into the Liturgy. We need to remember the importance of Christ and how He is the center with us submitting to Him.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[MarieVeronica]

No. It is a misguided attempt at stressing the common priesthood of the faithful. This posture is not found in the GIRM and I believe that there is a Vatican document that stresses the fact that the gestures of the priest are greatly different from what the faithful do by virtue of his ordination.

Thank you, Benedictgal. Great answer. This is ANOTHER one of those “new things” I noticed, upon our return to the Church… approximately 3 years ago. And it has made me extremely uncomfortable, too. I had no clue… where this “came from”

I have developed the habit (literally) of closing my eyes during Mass, when these things are done… because they make me so uncomfortable. I’d rather just listen to the prayers… and lift my heart to God. I know “my place” and it is NOT the priesthood.

 

[allhers]

There are formulas for lay blessings; however, if a blessing occurs in some liturgical or sacramental (Marriage, Annointing, Baptism, Confirmation) context, then, the ordained clergy are the ones to give the blessing. That is where the distinction lies. Furthermore, if the priest and the laity are together, the blessing falls to the priest, not the lay person.

Benedictgal, You ought to be teaching these young teens, some of them apparently are being “taught” by some “progressive” and “liberal” people who seem to think they can introduce anything into the Liturgy of the Mass that they feel like.

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

I agree with Benedictgal. The laity should pray for the baptized, and pray together, but the only guarantee of an efficacious blessing comes from the priest, and it seems to me that having the congregation provide the blessing dilutes the essence of the priesthood.

If you dilute the essence of priesthood, don’t expect vocations.

Benedictgal, You ought to be teaching these young teens, some of them apparently are being “taught” by some “progressive” and “liberal” people who seem to think they can introduce anything into the Liturgy of the Mass that they feel like.

Not necessarily. I’m fairly doctrinally “liberal”, and I’m bothered by the laity acting as the priest. On the contrary, there are others who are more “conservative”, and think nothing of it.

 

[peary]

It happens every so often that the priest or lay minister requests that the congregation lift up their right hands to offer a blessing to the newly confirmed or baptized. I have always been uncomfortable doing so as I am of the belief that only the Priest’s blessing is of importance and holy. (A medjugorje visionary once stated that receiving a blessing from a priest is of great worth). When this request of the congregation is made, I simply observe. Am I wrong?

No, it isn’t wrong. In fact, it is part of the priesthood of all believers. Done in a communal setting, it is permissable.

 

[Newbie2]

The problem is that people are still infected by the virus of the alleged spirit of Vatican II that they don’t even know what the Council documents actually say.

The Priest should only give blessings during Mass as doing this exalts Christ, puts Jesus as center and recognizes the Power of Christ in the Priesthood. To allow everyone to “bless” diminishes Christ and puts people as most important.

In Christ
Scylla

I assume you mean that only the priest should give blessings during mass, rather than the priest should only give blessings during mass.

Do you feel the same way about, for example, when a communicant comes to receive holding a small child or baby that the EMHC shouldn’t be allowed to bless the child?

Or…how about when we as a congregation bless God, for example in hymns “Blest be the Lord”? or in our responses, “Blessed be God forever”?

 

[benedictgal]

I assume you mean that only the priest should give blessings during mass, rather than the priest should only give blessings during mass.

Do you feel the same way about, for example, when a communicant comes to receive holding a small child or baby that the EMHC shouldn’t be allowed to bless the child?

Or…how about when we as a congregation bless God, for example in hymns “Blest be the Lord”? or in our responses, “Blessed be God forever”?

First of all, an EMHC should not be imparting blessings in the first place, especially during the context of the Mass. The blessing is reserved only for those who have received the sacrament of Holy Orders.

Read this from the 1997 document from the Congergation for Clergy which addresses collaborations between the ordained and the non-ordained:

]§ 2. To promote the proper identity (of various roles) in this area, those abuses which are contrary to the provisions of canon 907 are to be eradicated. In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant. It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity.

This includes blessings that occur within the Mass. Thus, it does not call for having the faithful “impart” a blessing since they have no authority to do so within the context of the Mass.

Furthermore, the final example you cited doesn’t even count for much since that is part of a song, not a very good song, for that matter, but, it is part of a song and it has no bearing on the matter at hand.

 

[benedictgal]

No, it isn’t wrong. In fact, it is part of the priesthood of all believers. Done in a communal setting, it is permissable.

But, that is a mistaken notion of the priesthood of believers. There is a distinct line between the ordained clergy and the laitiy that should not be blurred out of a false sense of inclusivity.

Please read what the 1997 document from the Congregatoin for the Clergy notes:

Thus the essential difference between the common priesthood of the faithful and the ministerial priesthood is not found in the priesthood of Christ, which remains forever one and indivisible, nor in the sanctity to which all of the faithful are called: “Indeed the ministerial priesthood does not of itself signify a greater degree of holiness with regard to the common priesthood of the faithful; through it, Christ gives to priests, in the Spirit, a particular gift so that they can help the People of God to exercise faithfully and fully the common priesthood which it has received”.(24) For the building up of the Church, the Body of Christ, there is a diversity of members and functions but only one Spirit who, for the good of the Church, distributes his various gifts with munificence proportionate to his riches and the needs of service, (cf. 1 Cor 12, 1-11).(25)

…The characteristics which differentiate the ministerial priesthood of Bishops and Priests from the common priesthood of the faithful and consequently delineate the extent to which other members of the faithful cooperate with this ministry, may be summarized in the following fashion:

a) the ministerial priesthood is rooted in the Apostolic Succession, and vested with “potestas sacra”(29) consisting of the faculty and the responsibility of acting in the person of Christ the Head and the Shepherd.(30)

b) it is a priesthood which renders its sacred ministers servants of Christ and of the Church by means of authoritative proclamation of the Word of God, the administration of the sacraments and the pastoral direction of the faithful.(31)

To base the foundations of the ordained ministry on Apostolic Succession, because this ministry continues the mission received by the Apostles from Christ, is an essential point of Catholic ecclesiological doctrine.(32)

The ordained ministry, therefore, is established on the foundation of the Apostles for the upbuilding of the Church: (33) “and is completely at the service of the Church”.(34) “Intrinsically linked to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry is its character of service. Entirely dependent on Christ who gives mission and authority, ministers are truly ?servants of Christ’ (Rom 1, 1) in the image of him who freely took for us ?the form of a slave’ (Phil 2,7). Because the word and grace of which they are ministers are not their own, but are given to them by Christ for the sake of others, they must freely become the slaves of all”.(35)

Actions like what what was reported in the OP blur rather than define the roles of clergy and laity. That is why this document was formulated.

 

[peary]

But, that is a mistaken notion of the priesthood of believers. There is a distinct line between the ordained clergy and the laitiy that should not be blurred out of a false sense of inclusivity.
Please read what the 1997 document from the Congregatoin for the Clergy notes
Actions like what what was reported in the OP blur rather than define the roles of clergy and laity. That is why this document was formulated.

**Not at all. If you read the incident carefully, the people bestowed a blessing on the person TOGETHER WITH THE PRIEST.

When you make the sign of the cross over yourself, you are bestowing a BLESSING upon yourself.

When you make the sign of the cross over another person, you are bestowing a BLESSING upon the other.

When you ask God to bless a person, you are asking God to BLESS the person.

There is nothing difficult to understand about this. **

 

[benedictgal]

**Not at all. If you read the incident carefully, the people bestowed a blessing on the person TOGETHER WITH THE PRIEST.

When you make the sign of the cross over yourself, you are bestowing a BLESSING upon yourself.

When you make the sign of the cross over another person, you are bestowing a BLESSING upon the other.

When you ask God to bless a person, you are asking God to BLESS the person.

There is nothing difficult to understand about this. **

No, peary, you are wrong. The priset along imparts the blessing. He doesn’t need the congregation to do that. Furthermore, such a blessing is not even called for in the rubrics of the Mass. This is just an example of someone inserting their idisyncracy into the Mass and wanting to “include” the faithftul when such inclusion is unwarranted.

Furthermore, re-read the post. It was done within the context of the Mass. It just smakcs of poor and improper liturgical catceshsis, both on the part of the ones fosteirng this kind of nonesens and those who support it.

The problem is that there are those, even clergy, who do not understand the distinction. Besides, standing back, the whole hting just looks plain silly.

Please re-read the distinction the Holy See makes.

 

[peary]

No, peary, you are wrong. The priset along imparts the blessing. He doesn’t need the congregation to do that. Furthermore, such a blessing is not even called for in the rubrics of the Mass. This is just an example of someone inserting their idisyncracy into the Mass and wanting to “include” the faithftul when such inclusion is unwarranted.

Furthermore, re-read the post. It was done within the context of the Mass. It just smakcs of poor and improper liturgical catceshsis, both on the part of the ones fosteirng this kind of nonesens and those who support it.

The problem is that there are those, even clergy, who do not understand the distinction. Besides, standing back, the whole hting just looks plain silly.

Please re-read the distinction the Holy See makes.

I think you need to consult one of the apologists on this in the forums. Your response does not sound correct. Sorry!

 

[Newbie2]

First of all, an EMHC should not be imparting blessings in the first place, especially during the context of the Mass. The blessing is reserved only for those who have received the sacrament of Holy Orders.

Furthermore, the final example you cited doesn’t even count for much since that is part of a song, not a very good song, for that matter, but, it is part of a song and it has no bearing on the matter at hand.

Maybe I’m missing it…where does it specify that such blessings by EMHCs are not allowed? Our bishop is OK with it…but I suppose he’s “wrong” too.

My example doesn’t count? So…“bad” hymns (in your opinon) don’t “count” as worship during liturgy? double My point is that the non-ordained faithful DO have a function in imparting a blessing, a blessing on God. Same as when we reply “Blessed be God forever.” Or does that not count as well?

I believe benedictgal is overstating the distinctive respective liturgical functions of the clergy and laity. Benedictgal has a point, but methinks takes the interpretation too far.

 

[benedictgal]

Maybe I’m missing it…where does it specify that such blessings by EMHCs are not allowed? Our bishop is OK with it…but I suppose he’s “wrong” too.

My example doesn’t count? So…“bad” hymns (in your opinon) don’t “count” as worship during liturgy? double My point is that the non-ordained faithful DO have a function in imparting a blessing, a blessing on God. Same as when we reply “Blessed be God forever.” Or does that not count as well?

I believe benedictgal is overstating the distinctive respective liturgical functions of the clergy and laity. Benedictgal has a point, but methinks takes the interpretation too far.

Both you and peary need to read the document that I quoted.

Peary, you were already proven wrong in your post on transubstantiation and what you posted isn’t in line with what the Holy See has indicated.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

The Book of Blessings does have provisions for the laity to impart a blessinb, but, that blessing is done apart from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. There are no provisions in the GIRM that would allow what the OP has posted. What the OP posted is something based on a priest’s idiosyncracies and has no business in the Mass.

 

[Newbie2]

Both you and peary need to read the document that I quoted.

Peary, you were already proven wrong in your post on transubstantiation and what you posted isn’t in line with what the Holy See has indicated.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

The Book of Blessings does have provisions for the laity to impart a blessinb, but, that blessing is done apart from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. There are no provisions in the GIRM that would allow what the OP has posted. What the OP posted is something based on a priest’s idiosyncracies and has no business in the Mass.

OK, I’ll read it if you address my question on “Blessed be God forever”. Deal? BTW, what is the “weight” of the document?