Blessings given by lay persons

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losh14

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This is a two-parter:

My wife and I are expecting our first child soon. A friend of ours, a Catholic layperson who recently converted, asked if he could perform a blessing for our baby. First question is, can a lay person give any sort of blessing, recognizing that this is not sacramental (especially not a baptism - another friend who is a Catholic deacon is performing that), but rather a spiritual gesture of love.

This friend of ours is a recent (two years ago) convert to Catholicism. He’s still discerning his vocation and has considered the diaconate but for some reason has decided to not yet pursue it. He surprised most of us when he announced that he has been ordained in the Universal Life Church as a reverend and has begun ministering to local teens. The ULC is an internet church - most ordained ministers in it have done so in order to officiate a wedding ceremony for non-religious friends. The ULC has no theology other than “believe what you will, such that no other be harmed.” My friend has pursued this because he’s searching. I was hoping he’d embrace the diaconate but he has told me he does not wish to exclude anyone in his ministry. I think it also gives him an immediate sense of identity and purpose, something he has struggled with for years. How should I turn him around and bring his ministry back into the Church, or at least help him to bring the Church into his ministry?
 
I would ask your local parish priest to give the blessing. Most priests will be willing to do it after Mass or you could schedule an appointment.
 
I’ll rephrase. What can my friend do that’s allowable? I’m not comfortable with the pre-written ceremonies of the ULC. They’re absurd, frankly - “baptism into the Universal ideal of perfection” etc. And they’re without efficacy. But I know that the prayer of a righteous man avails much, and if there’s not an established blessing, could I write one up for him to give for our child?

Relatedly, is there harm if my friend who is a Presbyterian minister offered to give a blessing, or my friend who is a rabbi, noting that neither of these are baptism?
 
Without giving an opinion, as mine is unqualified…I find it interesting (in a good way) that you have so many friends wanting to bless your baby.🙂

Steve
 
losh14 said:
I’ll rephrase. What can my friend do that’s allowable? I’m not comfortable with the pre-written ceremonies of the ULC. They’re absurd, frankly - “baptism into the Universal ideal of perfection” etc. And they’re without efficacy. But I know that the prayer of a righteous man avails much, and if there’s not an established blessing, could I write one up for him to give for our child?
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Why? :confused: (In what sense can a fallen-away Catholic be considered a “righteous man,” anyway?)
Relatedly, is there harm if my friend who is a Presbyterian minister offered to give a blessing, or my friend who is a rabbi, noting that neither of these are baptism?
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Are they offering of their own free will? (In which case, yes, let them do some kind of small prayer for the child - it won’t hurt anything.) But it seems very odd for a Catholic to want to seek these things out.
 
A lay person can give a blessing. It happens every Sunday when someone cannot receive communion and go up for the blessing. An extraordinary minister can give it. In this situation, though, I would use caution. If your friend is off doing his own thing away from the Church, and is a part of a “believe what you want” church, you may be sending him the wrong message by having him bless your child. By assenting to his blessing, you may be validating his erroneous beliefs and practices, when you really need to be evangelizing him, in hopes that he comes back into full communion with the Church. You don’t want to send mixed signals.

On the other hand, with your other friends, again it technically is ok. But the same problem occurs. I guess the question is whether you want to keep peace, or proclaim the truth. No, that sounds bad. So long as you make sure they know that you don’t agree with everything they believe, recognizing they do have some truth, I don’t see anything wrong with it.

As for your falen away Catholic friend, pray. Pray and talk. Let him know how important it is to keep his ministry and his doctrine within the fold of Mother Church. His salvation, quite literaly, depends on it.
 
If your friend was ‘ordained’ by this Universal Life “church” he has abandoned Catholicism, and is not Catholic any longer.

As far as I remember, The Church says you can only bless they whom you have authority over; Parents can bless their children, Catechists their students, Godparents their godchildren, Grandparents their grandchildren, etc. As your friend isn’t even the same religion as you, let alone in any sort of position of spiritual authority over your child, he cannot bless him or her.

To pray for the child, yes, but the actual act of blessing, no.
 
Tony_Souza said:
A lay person can give a blessing. It happens every Sunday when someone cannot receive communion and go up for the blessing. An extraordinary minister can give it.
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Actually, no, they certainly can not. We have had a thousand threads (or so it seems) detailing all of the documentation, etc. of the Church on why the Communion line-up is not supposed to be used for giving blessings, even if it is the priest who is giving the blessing - but EMHCs have absolutely no ability to give blessings to anyone in the Communion line-up, and there is abundant documentation on this web site that shows that, if you just do a key-word search on “blessings”.

Those who cannot receive Holy Communion do best to remain in their pew and make an Act of Spiritual Holy Communion, other than little children being carried by their parents.
In this situation, though, I would use caution. If your friend is off doing his own thing away from the Church, and is a part of a “believe what you want” church, you may be sending him the wrong message by having him bless your child. By assenting to his blessing, you may be validating his erroneous beliefs and practices, when you really need to be evangelizing him, in hopes that he comes back into full communion with the Church. You don’t want to send mixed signals.
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Definitely not - I agree with you there. 🙂
 
I would too be uncomfortable with the services of the ULC. It is a heretical group and a good Catholic has no business being involved with it. Your friend’s “ordination” is grounds for excommunication. It is serious. I would not let him do any sort of blessing on any level.
 
Emphasis, editing and remarks by me:
losh14 said:
My wife and I are expecting our first child soon. A friend of ours, a Catholic layperson who recently converted, asked if he could perform a blessing for our baby.

[Why? Why would non-Catholic layperson want to bless your baby? Especially one now ordained in some crank church? I would be deeply suspicous of their motivation. They have left the church of Christ.]
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… edited …]

This friend of ours is a recent (two years ago) convert to Catholicism. He’s still discerning his vocation and has considered the diaconate but for some reason has decided to not yet pursue it. [Why?]

He surprised most of us when he announced that he has been ordained in the Universal Life Church as a reverend and has begun ministering to local teens. The ULC is an internet church - most ordained ministers in it have done so in order to officiate a wedding ceremony for non-religious friends. The ULC has no theology other than “believe what you will, such that no other be harmed.”
Rawb said:
If your friend was ‘ordained’ by this Universal Life “church” **he has abandoned Catholicism, and is not Catholic any longer. **

As far as I remember, The Church says you can only bless they whom you have authority over; Parents can bless their children, Catechists their students, Godparents their godchildren, Grandparents their grandchildren, etc. As your friend isn’t even the same religion as you, let alone in any sort of position of spiritual authority over your child, he cannot bless him or her.** [Sounds about right to me]**

To pray for the child, yes, but the actual act of blessing, no.
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Frankly, I would not want a ‘blessing’ from such a person. In my opinion, it would be more like a curse. You are Catholic. To accept a blessing from a non-Catholic religious is to accept their authority to do so, which they do not have.
 
tampasteve said:
Without giving an opinion, as mine is unqualified…I find it interesting (in a good way) that you have so many friends wanting to bless your baby.🙂
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Would it surprise you that we talk a lot of religion in my circle? We used to have dessert and discussion nights and talk theology, ethics and science. Then everyone got busy with grad school and jobs and seminaries, and that doesn’t happen anymore. But yeah, there’s a lot of love around us. Deus aderit.
 
Layman said:
Emphasis, editing and remarks by me:

Frankly, I would not want a ‘blessing’ from such a person. In my opinion, it would be more like a curse. You are Catholic. To accept a blessing from a non-Catholic religious is to accept their authority to do so, which they do not have.
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Ok I’m not going to touch the issue of whether a lay person can give blessings or not except to say only in an unofficial capacity.I have here on my shelf a book published by the National Council of catholic Bishops titled Catholic Household Blessings and Prayers published for use by the laity argue with them!:mad:

I had a certificate of ordination issued by them in the 70’s that I sent for as a joke. I didn’t realise that they were a “real” church i figured it was a joke. I used to get their magazine several times a year and looked forward to it because it was so bizarre. I don’t think I would want my child blessed by him either wondering what this person’s intent would be in doing so.
These folks truely do range from the sublime to the genuinely rediculous. For $5 at that time you could get the title “Pope” of your church. NO messy trying to get cardinal’s votes there.
 
Thank you all for your well-considered thoughts. I think it would be best to ask only for prayers from this friend of mine, and prayers for him as well. I think to consider a blessing from him as a curse would be a bit much (as there’s no authority in the ULC and hence authority to do neither), but yeah the blessing is off-base. Even if it is a lay Catholic blessing, within the context of his chosen role as non-denominational (or null-denominational) minister would send the wrong message.

I’ll tell my Presby buddy just to show up for the baptism.
 
If someone like the person mentioned was going to bless you, in the name of what entity would he do it, given that the ULC, at least as stated here, has no fixed theology?

That’s what I mean it being more like a curse. Very dubious.
 
Layman said:
If someone like the person mentioned was going to bless you, in the name of what entity would he do it, given that the ULC, at least as stated here, has no fixed theology?
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I asked him last night, and he said it’d be in the Name of Jesus, if I preferred. If he blessed someone else, it’d be in the name of whatever they believed - wicca, the feminine divine, the universe. I asked him how he can serve Jesus and these other supposedly-deified beings. He said he didn’t believe in them but didn’t want others to lose what faith they had. I asked him about the glaring contradiction of serving Jesus in his own worship but serving whatever anyone else asked of him. He said it was not a contradiction, that these others are just shadows of Christ. It got a little angry after that. Hopefully we’ll talk again this week. If not, he might not be coming around to visit after all.
 
I sent off for a certificate from one of those postal ordinations once, many years ago, when I was young, clever and ignorant at the same time. I did it for a laugh. I was in a rock band, and cocking a snook at the Church.

Still, I’d never have presumed to bless anyone. **If I find the documents I was sent again, I’ll burn them.
**
If your pal won’t submit to the discipline of being a Catholic deacon and/or a seminarian, that is significant. He has no business apeing a priest and giving ‘blessings’, especially to small children who can’t give informed consent.

Vade retro, Satanas, I’d say.

Get a real priest in, and get peace of mind.
 
Layman said:
Get a real priest in, and get peace of mind.
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We have a deacon performing the baptism - real, ordained, Catholic deacon whose ordination I personally attended and who prostrated before the Archbishop - because he’s a friend of ours and sorta called dibs back before we were married and before he was ordained. If we were as close to the priest, probably have him do it.

This other friend, wow, he’s a confused man. This whole episode has opened up lines of conversation I didn’t know were there with him. There’s a lot more going on than I thought. I knew he had come from a varied background - raised Pentecostal, got into Wicca, reformed and became born again as a Baptist, and then re-baptized and confirmed as a Catholic. He’s also struggled with emotional problems - partly stemming from a degenerative disease that renders him permanently disabled. His wife, also a Catholic convert (from Judaism, nothing else), is going along with this because him having a ministry makes him feel really alive. And he feels an affinity towards kids who are into paganism. When he first told me about the ministry, I figured it was a way to preach Christ to the pagans. But really, it strikes me more as a way to preach self-esteem to kids who want to believe whatever they want.

When he first approached me with the idea it was a bit of a surprise, but now it’s definitely concerning. I don’t want to turn him off of ministry - just want him to preach what’s right. This will take some time and I need to be delicate. This is a man who has tried to take his own life twice in the past year. Like I said, he’s confused and searching for meaning. Again, I don’t know why he’s not into the diaconate. I think it’s the immediate gratification of being a minister.

I don’t think his teaching is satanic, though this man has suffered many attacks. The teaching is loving but empty - apostate is a better description. The love of God without the holiness of God is really nothing but warm fuzzies that fade. Besides, I’ve met the devil once, and she used seduction. This isn’t seductive, but it is empty.

Your prayers are appreciated for helping me win over my brother. Maybe I should try to get the deacon and the ULC minister to have a conversation. Maybe it’d go better.
 
losh14 said:
Your prayers are appreciated for helping me win over my brother. Maybe I should try to get the deacon and the ULC minister to have a conversation. Maybe it’d go better.
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Maybe just pray for him, and be there for him if he needs anything in a material way. If he has been suicidal, you don’t want to be the one pushing him over the edge again, or agitating him.

He should not be in a position of leadership, though - if he has a “superior officer” you might get in touch and mention that he is not entirely stable - not in a “gossipy” way, but just in the manner of a concerned citizen.

Where are the parents of these kids that he works with?
 
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