Blind Faith

[Sinner1]

Is blind faith in God, the Catholic Church, and the Magisterium a good thing?

If not, then where do we draw the line? At what point does good faith in the Catholic Church (or any other faith for that matter) simply become blind obedience?

 

[fhansen]

Is blind faith in God, the Catholic Church, and the Magisterium a good thing?

If not, then where do we draw the line? At what point does good faith in the Catholic Church (or any other faith for that matter) simply become blind obedience?

Christian faith is said to be partially-blind, if you will, because even though we believe that faith is a gift-impossible without Gods’ grace-it’s still faith we must walk by rather than by sight.

**“Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.” 1Cor 13:12 **

Gods’ apparent purpose here on earth is to draw us, molding us into beings who freely choose to believe in and obey Him as we come to know His reality, love, and trustworthiness for ourselves. Our part is to continue to say “yes” to this gift of faith.

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Heb 11:6

From the CCC:

**163 Faith makes us taste in advance the light of the beatific vision, the goal of our journey here below. Then we shall see God “face to face”, “as he is”.47 So faith is already the beginning of eternal life:

When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now, as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we already possessed the wonderful things which our faith assures us we shall one day enjoy.48

**

 

[Sinner1]

But at where do we draw the line? If the Magisterium ordered you to kill your parents, you probably wouldn’t do it. At what point does our faith and obedience become too blind?

 

[buffalo]

But at where do we draw the line? If the Magisterium ordered you to kill your parents, you probably wouldn’t do it. At what point does our faith and obedience become too blind?

That would be a clear contradiction to the 10 Commandments. A properly formed conscience would dictate your actions.

 

[fhansen]

But at where do we draw the line? If the Magisterium ordered you to kill your parents, you probably wouldn’t do it. At what point does our faith and obedience become too blind?

Well that’s part of building trust. Nothing in the history of Magisterial teachings give me any reason to think they’d tell me to do something which goes against a stated commandment of God.

 

[Sinner1]

That would be a clear contradiction to the 10 Commandments. A properly formed conscience would dictate your actions.

True. But at that point, we would be picking the Ten Commandments over the Magisterium, in which case our obedience to the Magisterium wouldn’t be blind.

So would you say that we should blindly follow the Magisterium, unless they say something contrary to a previous statement or teaching?

 

[Sinner1]

Well that’s part of building trust. Nothing in the history of Magisterial teachings give me any reason to think they’d tell me to do something which goes against a stated commandment of God.

Right, so you trust the Magisterium. I respect that.

But if they commanded you to kill your parents, you’re trust would probably diminish; unless you blindly followed what the Magisterium said.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Sinner1

Faith is in the person of Jesus Christ. We must believe that He has the authority from the Father to show us who the Father is. This authority has been handed down to the Apostles who speak in His name as scripture tells us. This is the deposit of faith, which is spoken and interpreted by the Magisterium having the authority to do so given by Christ Himself. Christ has wanted us to know certain things about Himself and His Church. For us not to believe that what the Church teaches as “the Faith”, is to not to believe what Christ has revealed to us.
The line not to cross is that which is not taught as faith by the Church and which is not in line with revealed truth, which is total charity or love. We must always believe and act with the mind of the Church which is the vehicle of salvation and source of all graces.

mdcpensive1

 

[grannymh]

Is blind faith in God, the Catholic Church, and the Magisterium a good thing?

If not, then where do we draw the line? At what point does good faith in the Catholic Church (or any other faith for that matter) simply become blind obedience?

Sorry, I simply can’t imagine faith being blind. Doesn’t one have to know what one is suppose to be believing before one can have faith?

Blessings for 2009
grannymh

 

[fhansen]

Right, so you trust the Magisterium. I respect that.

But if they commanded you to kill your parents, you’re trust would probably diminish; unless you blindly followed what the Magisterium said.

Yes, but it’s kind of like asking, If God were evil, would you still love Him?- and the answer would be no, but unless I come to believe God’s evil, I’ll still love Him.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Horses in traffic need to wear blinders to keep them from being distracted and possibly then injured or killed.

Blinders in that sense aren’t meant to keep the horse from seeing; they are meant to keep the horse seeing only what is needed to keep the horse safe. The blinders are actually more helpful to the horse by keeping him focused.

I think too many people think ‘blind faith’ means ‘stupid’, or that people are blinded to ‘good’ things in favor of one ‘overarching’ thing and that they will either ‘miss’ the good things or ‘hurt’ the good things unless they can ‘see’ them.

I’m sure the horse with blinders on, for example, misses the dangerous distractions but ALSO misses ‘good distractions’, say a nice field of clover where he could eat. But the horse has a job to do. He can’t just suddenly stop whenever he sees clover or he wouldn’t finish his job.

So, I feel the idea of ‘blind faith’ is more analogous to a horse with blinders. I am ‘blind’ to the world’s distractions, both good and bad, but in carrying out God’s faith with the blinders on I am NOT missing any of the ‘essential’ things.

With that kind of ‘blind faith’ I’m not going to be put into semi-ridiculous situations like having to ‘choose’ between ‘killing a child or obeying God blindly’. If you recall, Abraham was willing to sacrifice Isaac but God stopped him from doing so. If we truly had Abraham’s blind faith, we would trust in God that He would guide us. Alas, people are really not ready to relinquish their ‘power’ to be the ones making the judgment calls. We say we’re willing to follow God, but we want to make sure that we ‘approve’ of what He wants us to do.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Tantum Ergo, you make a lot of horse sense.

mdcpensive1

 

[VociMike]

You’d have to define “blind faith” before any discussion can take place.

 

[fhansen]

Is blind faith in God, the Catholic Church, and the Magisterium a good thing?

If not, then where do we draw the line? At what point does good faith in the Catholic Church (or any other faith for that matter) simply become blind obedience?

Of course people don’t-or shouldn’t-believe something just because someone else tells them it’s true. In the case of the Catholic faith, her teachings are truths she proposes for us to ponder and then agree or disagree with. Even if we agree, this may not happen except over a period of time. Conversion is a process which involves our wills and our intellects. One reason that I believe in the Churchs teachings is that her doctrine on original sin explains for me the existence of evil better than other models I’ve heard. Her emphasis on-and even her worship of- Love coincides with my own experience of love being transcendent in nature. There’s a wealth of insights into human and divine nature that make sense when studied. And if they can’t stand the test, then you’d have to move on to another system of belief-or none at all.

 

[buffalo]

True. But at that point, we would be picking the Ten Commandments over the Magisterium, in which case our obedience to the Magisterium wouldn’t be blind.

So would you say that we should blindly follow the Magisterium, unless they say something contrary to a previous statement or teaching?

Pretty much.

 

[IrishJoe]

If you recall, Abraham was willing to sacrifice Isaac but God stopped him from doing so. If we truly had Abraham’s blind faith, we would trust in God that He would guide us.

but only because god had asked him to… so its a bit of a pointless analagy. He was just blind and god exploited this to an extent.

 

[grannymh]

Quote: Post 16
If you recall, Abraham was willing to sacrifice Isaac but God stopped him from doing so. If we truly had Abraham’s blind faith, we would trust in God that He would guide us.

but only because god had asked him to… so its a bit of a pointless analagy. He was just blind and god exploited this to an extent.

Pardon me.
Abraham had a wonderful, deep relationship with God. He and God truly knew each other well. Abraham’s faith was based on mutual love. His faith was strong not blind.

 

[IrishJoe]

god asking a person to commit human sacrifice of their own son is what I would call explotiation or emotional blackmail

 

[grannymh]

god asking a person to commit human sacrifice of their own son is what I would call explotiation or emotional blackmail

I certainly would agree, if god were a human and the Hebrew Scriptures were a novel with the New Testament another fictional sequel. I will try a short explanation and hope that someone else can do better.

The Hebrew Scriptures and the New Testament are one unit. Thus, in some of the Hebrew books, God is teaching the people about what is to come and what the significance will be. This is preparation not only for understanding what will take place when Jesus is on earth, but it backs up the truth of Jesus’ act of salvation by prefiguring it.

To teach us the enormous significance of the sacrifice of the cross, God gave us an example on the human level ahead of time. Because Abraham was not blind to his people’s need for salvation and because he was not blind to the ways of The Lord,
he chose to obey.

Blessings for 2009
grannymh

 

[IrishJoe]

that makes no sense to me whatsoever unfortunatly. Without wishing to derail the topic why not jsut send jeus then. it’s pretty obviuous the prefiguing was pointless since the jews ended up killing jesus!