Blood atonement in Mormonism?

[gazelam]

How can there be anything so bad that the blood Jesus shed does not apply? To my Catholic ears (and I mean no offense) but how could anyone limit Jesus’s blood?

That would still mean that Christ’s sacrifice was insufficient in some circumstances.

Hebrews 6:4-6 (Douay Rheims)
4) For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

1. Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
2. And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery.

There are clearly some sequences of behavior (hopefully very few) that are beyond the cleansing power of Christ.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Hebrews 6:4-6 (Douay Rheims)
4) For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

1. Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
2. And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery.

There are clearly some sequences of behavior (hopefully very few) that are beyond the cleansing power of Christ.

That doesn’t say that one can then shed their own blood, on top of Christ’s sacrifice in order to receive salvation, nor does it say that Christ’s blood is not enough for someone who commits murder.

 

[adamhovey1988]

That doesn’t say that one can then shed their own blood, on top of Christ’s sacrifice in order to receive salvation, nor does it say that Christ’s blood is not enough for someone who commits murder.

Correct me if I’m wrong but if I commit murder and I am genuinely sorry for my sin and I ask for forgiveness would I not be forgiven? Of course normatively since I am Catholic through the sacrament of confession. I feel like the Mormon concept of God is very limited and I do not mean to offend Mormons

 

[gazelam]

Correct me if I’m wrong but if I commit murder and I am genuinely sorry for my sin and I ask for forgiveness would I not be forgiven? Of course normatively since I am Catholic through the sacrament of confession. I feel like the Mormon concept of God is very limited and I do not mean to offend Mormons

No offense taken…

There is an example in the Book of Mormon of a group of savage people who converted to Christ who were forgiven of their murders. They were known as both the “Anti-Nephi-Lehies” and the “People of Ammon”. Once converted they buried their weapons of war and refused to fight again so that they wouldn’t return to their wicked ways.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonites_%28Book_of_Mormon%29

However, Genesis 9:6 (KJV) does say “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.”

Christ revealed to Joseph Smith this doctrine:

D&C 42:18 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come.

This clearly states that those who have joined the church and know better won’t be forgiven for premeditated murder. It does leave some wiggle room for those who convert after murdering as is the case with the Book of Mormon example.

This is about the limit of my knowledge on the topic. I grateful that I do not have to deal with this in real life! Take care all…

 

[Horton]

No offense taken…

There is an example in the Book of Mormon of a group of savage people who converted to Christ who were forgiven of their murders. They were known as both the “Anti-Nephi-Lehies” and the “People of Ammon”. Once converted they buried their weapons of war and refused to fight again so that they wouldn’t return to their wicked ways.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonites_%28Book_of_Mormon%29

However, Genesis 9:6 (KJV) does say “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.”

Christ revealed to Joseph Smith this doctrine:

D&C 42:18 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come.

This clearly states that those who have joined the church and know better won’t be forgiven for premeditated murder. It does leave some wiggle room for those who convert after murdering as is the case with the Book of Mormon example.

This is about the limit of my knowledge on the topic. I grateful that I do not have to deal with this in real life! Take care all…

Bolding mine. This is clearly not Christian teaching. Jesus Christ died for ALL our sins, every single one of them, not just MOST of our sins.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Bolding mine. This is clearly not Christian teaching. Jesus Christ died for ALL our sins, every single one of them, not just MOST of our sins.

2 Peter 3:9, I think would be a good text for evidence of that.

 

[zaffiroborant]

No offense taken…

There is an example in the Book of Mormon of a group of savage people who converted to Christ who were forgiven of their murders. They were known as both the “Anti-Nephi-Lehies” and the “People of Ammon”. Once converted they buried their weapons of war and refused to fight again so that they wouldn’t return to their wicked ways.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonites_%28Book_of_Mormon%29

However, Genesis 9:6 (KJV) does say “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.”

Christ revealed to Joseph Smith this doctrine:

D&C 42:18 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come.

This clearly states that those who have joined the church and know better won’t be forgiven for premeditated murder. It does leave some wiggle room for those who convert after murdering as is the case with the Book of Mormon example.

This is about the limit of my knowledge on the topic. I grateful that I do not have to deal with this in real life! Take care all…

And that clearly says that the Blood of Christ is insufficient for a murderer.

 

[Chanticleer]

F.Y.I.- Up until 2004 someone convicted of murder in Utah was given the choice of death by firing squad if requested. (blood shed) Death by firing squad in Utah was again reinstated in 2015 if lethal injection drugs are unavailable. I wonder how lethal injection drugs in Utah can be “unavailable” if that is a state’s primary method of execution?? Who, or what makes them “unavailable”? Perhaps a convicted murderer with the belief he must shed his own blood in order to be forgiven makes lethal injection drugs “unavailable”.

 

[LethalMouse]

F.Y.I.- Up until 2004 someone convicted of murder in Utah was given the choice of death by firing squad if requested. (blood shed) Death by firing squad in Utah was again reinstated in 2015 if lethal injection drugs are unavailable. I wonder how lethal injection drugs in Utah can be “unavailable” if that is a state’s primary method of execution?? Who, or what makes them “unavailable”? Perhaps a convicted murderer with the belief he must shed his own blood in order to be forgiven makes lethal injection drugs “unavailable”.

If someone truly believes they must die via firing squad and not lethal injection due to their religious belief… I would say denying that is the a rather cruel punishment

 

[veilofveronica]

Yup. It used to exist. LDS would take an oath in the temple (during their endowment ceremony )that involved mimicking a slash across the throat if the person being endowed were to reveal what they saw in the temple. They don’t do that any more to my knowledge (I never made it to the endowment portion).

There is speculation that this actually came from the Masonic rite of initiation, that the Endowment ceremony closely mirrors.

 

[RebeccaJ]

F.Y.I.- Up until 2004 someone convicted of murder in Utah was given the choice of death by firing squad if requested. (blood shed) Death by firing squad in Utah was again reinstated in 2015 if lethal injection drugs are unavailable. I wonder how lethal injection drugs in Utah can be “unavailable” if that is a state’s primary method of execution?? Who, or what makes them “unavailable”? Perhaps a convicted murderer with the belief he must shed his own blood in order to be forgiven makes lethal injection drugs “unavailable”.

There’s a shortage of the lethal poison used in the US.

huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-executions-delay-drug_us_56256bace4b0bce34701efc9

“States with the death penalty have faced widespread shortages of execution drugs in recent years as American drugmakers have withdrawn from making the substances and European companies have blocked sales to U.S. prisons.”