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IGotQuestions
Guest
Does anyone have any experiences with Bob Jones Sr,. Jr., the 3rd, either by going to his University, Books, Tapes, etc.
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Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
My impression has been that BJU is one of the focal points of “professional anti-Catholicism” in the U.S., but perhaps that has softened over the years.
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JustaServant
Guest
Sr. was an evangelist in post-WW1 America. In many ways he was the face of American fundamentalism, especially in the South. Although the movement began decades before, it was his brand of rather caustic preaching that birthed much of what we still see today in the ‘Bible Belt’. He was actually a Methodist, but his school and movement became more associated with Independent Fundamental Baptists. There were many other ‘sawdust’ fundamentalist preachers from that era, but Sr. stood head and shoulders above them.
On the positive side the Jones legacy has included more intelligent theological positions and a more reasoned approach to evangelism and worship.
On the negatives, Jones himself was associated with the KKK, and has one of it’s college dorms named after a Klan grand dragon. They tend to be VERY racist anti-Catholic and elitist. Jr. and the 3rd carried on that legacy. I have met both (Jr. and III) and heard them preach in my Baptist days. As persons they are likable and true gentlemen.
Nowadays they are the last of the dying brand of historic fundamentalism rapidly disappearing. Their history of racism and rather cruel positions toward homosexuals created a legacy the ‘Bible Belt’ still contends with to this very day. In the past decade they have apologized for that past, and knowing certain things about the family, I think I know why.
Let’s just say, God has a way of humbling hard hearts.
On the positive side the Jones legacy has included more intelligent theological positions and a more reasoned approach to evangelism and worship.
On the negatives, Jones himself was associated with the KKK, and has one of it’s college dorms named after a Klan grand dragon. They tend to be VERY racist anti-Catholic and elitist. Jr. and the 3rd carried on that legacy. I have met both (Jr. and III) and heard them preach in my Baptist days. As persons they are likable and true gentlemen.
Nowadays they are the last of the dying brand of historic fundamentalism rapidly disappearing. Their history of racism and rather cruel positions toward homosexuals created a legacy the ‘Bible Belt’ still contends with to this very day. In the past decade they have apologized for that past, and knowing certain things about the family, I think I know why.
Let’s just say, God has a way of humbling hard hearts.
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JustaServant
Guest
Oh yes. They remain anti-Catholic and their roots dig deep into the entire anti-Catholic attitude at the beginning of the 20th century. American Protestants were terrified at seeing Catholic immigrants (like the kind on both sides of my family) entering into the country. Stories abound about how the Catholic Church was going to bring down the country. This was around the time the (the 1920s) that the KKK began a resurgence.
The rise of American fundamentalism and resurgence of the KKK ran parallel to each other. I would say Bob Jones University gave the theological reasoning for the hate.
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loumeland
Guest
Dr. Bob the third? I shook his hand.
I also went to BJU for grad school and graduated in 2013.
2 years later, I became Catholic.
I also went to BJU for grad school and graduated in 2013.
2 years later, I became Catholic.
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JustaServant
Guest
How did your former fundamentalist friends like that?
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loumeland
Guest
Oh, they had already dismissed me when they found out I was Presbyterian most of the time I was there (as my journey to Catholicism was gradual).
I’m telling you- they’re a very interesting bunch of people. Fundamental Baptists even fight amongst themselves and form their own camps (eg. Pensacola Baptists vs. BJU Baptists vs. Hyles Baptists). They believe that Southern Baptists are too liberal, most Protestants are not saved, and Catholics are 100% pagan and the root of all evil.
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JustaServant
Guest
They like Free Presbyterians, I believe Ian Paisley belongs to that denomination. He speaks at BJU all the time. They also like Bible Presbyterians, but they separate on the issue of Calvinism.Oh, they had already dismissed me when they found out I was Presbyterian most of the time I was there (as my journey to Catholicism was gradual).
I’m telling you- they’re a very interesting bunch of people. Fundamental Baptists even fight amongst themselves and form their own camps (eg. Pensacola Baptists vs. BJU Baptists vs. Hyles Baptists). They believe that Southern Baptists are too liberal, most Protestants are not saved, and Catholics are 100% pagan and the root of all evil.
I know all about IFBs and their various sub and sub-sub groups. They separate at the drop of a hat. There are Southern Baptist churches in the south that are pretty fundamentalist. The one’s in my neck of the woods are fairly reasonable.
On my Facebook page I haven’t gotten much reaction from some of the fundamentalists I used to know, unless they block my posts.
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mark_a
Guest
FWIW, Bob3 is not above attending a Catholic funeral.
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Darryl_Revok
Guest
From reading about the University in the past, I get the impression that it was created solely to turn out joyless, small-minded wet blankets.
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JustaServant
Guest
Agreed.
But when they break out of that mental prison, they really break out!
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thenobes
Guest
Why would that matter to you? Joy is not physical : so to you it mustn 't exist. Or are you just trying to split us from other religionists?
peace
steve
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Darryl_Revok
Guest
Just calling it as I see it.
For instance, they ban all music save gospel and classical. Jazz is not allowed, for some mysterious reason. Although considering their tax exemption status was revoked until they lifted their ban on interracial dating in 2000, perhaps the reason is not that mysterious at all.
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JustaServant
Guest
The only music they allow are ‘old fashioned’ hymns and classical. The college bans Southern Gospel, Country, Rock and Roll, and Jazz. If you are inferring they ban jazz because of the African influence, they may have it’s roots in racism (very common POV in the early days of Jazz) but I’m not sure that is the case today. Syncapation and the ‘beat’ of music are ‘fleshly’ and can lead to sin. Not making this up. I was told this by many BJU grads and it is taught to them at the college.
'Cause you know, when you listen to Miles Davis, the first thing you do is go look for some chicks.
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loumeland
Guest
Free Presbyterians are an interesting bunch. I have visited their church a few times, and they are like any other Fundamentalist Baptist group, except that they proudly support Calvinist theology. In my opinion, they are not really Presbyterian because most frown upon (and some churches even do not practice) infant baptism.
They only allow attendance at one of the following churches: bju.edu/admission/admitted-students/choosing-a-church.php#churches One hears stories about how they send their Public Safety vehicles around the area looking for people breaking the rules in this regard and writing their tag number down.
It’s a very controlling and legalistic environment at best.
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JustaServant
Guest
I’m actually surprised the list is that big.Free Presbyterians are an interesting bunch. I have visited their church a few times, and they are like any other Fundamentalist Baptist group, except that they proudly support Calvinist theology. In my opinion, they are not really Presbyterian because most frown upon (and some churches even do not practice) infant baptism.
They only allow attendance at one of the following churches: bju.edu/admission/admitted-students/choosing-a-church.php#churches One hears stories about how they send their Public Safety vehicles around the area looking for people breaking the rules in this regard and writing their tag number down.
It’s a very controlling and legalistic environment at best.
Cultic is the word you’re looking for.
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Sarcelle
Guest
If you go around the blogosphere, you will come across some homeschooling moms who hold to the view that music that has a defined beat or has any percussive instrument, is a tool of the devil.The only music they allow are ‘old fashioned’ hymns and classical. The college bans Southern Gospel, Country, Rock and Roll, and Jazz. If you are inferring they ban jazz because of the African influence, they may have it’s roots in racism (very common POV in the early days of Jazz) but I’m not sure that is the case today. Syncapation and the ‘beat’ of music are ‘fleshly’ and can lead to sin. Not making this up. I was told this by many BJU grads and it is taught to them at the college.
'Cause you know, when you listen to Miles Davis, the first thing you do is go look for some chicks.
The eschew Harry Potter, JRR Tolkien, who they call a hell bound Roman Catholic. C.S. Lewis’ Narnia stories are similarly banned due to his use of Greek mythological characters such as fauns and centaurs.
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JustaServant
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I thought about that after I posted. I’ve been out of that loop for so long I couldn’t remember if he was still alive.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
I have a Muslim friend that is getting a PhD and is at Clemson right now that is friends with a professor at Bob Jones University that’s about the extent of my knowledge. And that is a pretty odd pairing if I do say so myself. I know
Father Dwight longenecker went to Bob Jones University
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JustaServant
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I would almost guarantee he is not so much a friend as a ‘project’.
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