Bodily resurrection

[Phyllo]

Hi,

I know that Jesus resurrected with his body. The JW’s say that only His spirit was raised and God “removed his body”. They site verses like 1Cor 15:44-50 …flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom… 1 Peter 3:18 …being put to death but made alive in the spirit…

Is there a scripture that says without a doubt that Jesus resurrected bodily into heaven? Or how can I refute them when they say that just Jesus spirit is in heaven?
Thanks

 

[Ad_Orientem]

John 2:18-21

The Jews, therefore, answered, and said to him: What sign dost thou shew unto us, seeing thou dost these things? [19] Jesus answered, and said to them: Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. [20] The Jews then said: Six and forty years was this temple in building; and wilt thou raise it up in three days? [21] But he spoke of the temple of his body.

John 20:17

[17] Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

How can you touch someone who doesn’t have a body?

Acts 1:9

…while they looked on, he was raised up: and a cloud received him out of their sight…

How can a pure spirit be looked at, raised up, or received out of sight?

Beware, though, they probably have prepared answers (however unreasonable) to these points. In my experience they won’t listen to reason.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi,

I know that Jesus resurrected with his body. The JW’s say that only His spirit was raised and God “removed his body”. They site verses like 1Cor 15:44-50 …flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom… 1 Peter 3:18 …being put to death but made alive in the spirit…

Is there a scripture that says without a doubt that Jesus resurrected bodily into heaven? Or how can I refute them when they say that just Jesus spirit is in heaven?
Thanks

The Evidence for Jesus’ Resurrection
By William Lane Craig
youtube.com/watch?v=4iyxR8uE9GQ

Fact 1:
After his crucifixion, Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in his personal tomb. This is significant because it would have been difficult for the disciples to make up the story of an empty tomb when everyone knew where the tomb was located.

1. Jesus’ burial is attested in the very old tradition quoted by Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians.
   “For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.” (1 Co 15:3-5)
   Paul “received” this account from Peter within the first five years of Jesus’ crucifixion making the possibility of legend or myth very unlikely.
2. The account of the burial is part of very old source material used by Mark in writing his gospel. The passion narrative, in particular, is thought to be from an even earlier account that was used by all of the gospel writers.
3. As a member of the Jewish court that condemned Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea is unlikely to be a Christian invention.
4. No competing burial story exists.

Fact 2:
On the Sunday following the crucifixion, the tomb of Jesus was found empty by a group of his female followers.

1. The empty tomb story is part of the very old source material used by Mark.
2. The old tradition cited by Paul in 1 Corinthians implies the fact of the empty tomb.
3. Mark’s story is simple and lacks signs of legendary embellishment.
4. The fact that women’s testimony was worthless in first century Palestine strengthens the case that women were the first to discover the empty tomb. Why would any account use the suspect testimony of women if it were not an accurate recounting of what really happened?
5. The earliest Jewish allegations that the disciples had stolen Jesus’ body presupposes that the tomb was empty.

Fact 3:
On multiple occasions and under various circumstances, different individuals and groups experienced appearances of Jesus alive after his death.

1. The list of eyewitnesses to Jesus’ resurrection appearances (which is quoted by Paul and vouchsafed by his personal acquaintance with many of the people involved), guarantees that such appearances occurred. These included appearances to Peter, to the Apostles, to 500 people at one time, and to James.
2. The appearance traditions in the gospels provide multiple, independent attestation to these appearances.
3. Researchers have noticed signs of historical credibility in the specific appearances; for example, the unexpected activity of the disciples’ fishing prior to Jesus’ appearance by the Lake of Tiberius or the otherwise inexplicable conversion of James.

Fact 4:
The disciples believed that Jesus was risen from the dead despite having every reason not to believe it.

1. Their leader was dead, and Jews had no belief in a dying (and rising) Messiah.
2. According to Jewish law, Jesus’ execution as a criminal showed him to be a heretic and a man literally under the curse of God.
3. Jewish beliefs about the afterlife precluded anyone’s rising from the dead before the general resurrection at the end of the world.

The historical resurrection of Jesus is the best explanation of these facts.

 

[Phyllo]

My friend does not question the death and resurrection of Jesus just that Jesus was not resurrected in his crucified body.

The following is from the JW book You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth page 145-146

“But since the apostle Thomas was able to put his hand into the hole in Jesus’side, does that not show that Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body that was nailed to the stake? No, for Jesus simply materialized or took on a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past. In order to convince Thomas of who He was, He used a body with wound holes.”

This is almost laughable to me.

Their reason for Jesus body not being in the tomb is that God removed it?(according to the above book)

Yeah—God resurrected it!!!

No matter what I say she cherry picks a verse from the bible to “prove” her point. I am not such a good cherry picker. I need a little help in trying to talk to her.

Thanks

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Hi,

I know that Jesus resurrected with his body. The JW’s say that only His spirit was raised and God “removed his body”. They site verses like 1Cor 15:44-50 …flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom… 1 Peter 3:18 …being put to death but made alive in the spirit…

Is there a scripture that says without a doubt that Jesus resurrected bodily into heaven? Or how can I refute them when they say that just Jesus spirit is in heaven?
Thanks

Don’t argue with them! Just tell them you are not interested, they are trained to trap you and I mean trained. They love to snag ignorant Catholics and brag about it all the time.

Linus2nd

 

[spina1953]

The JW rely on several people who use prophecy to interpet Scripture which is of a personal nature to which they then indoctrinate their followers. 2 Peter 2;1-9 is what I have use in, when confronting them. I also use 2 Peter 3; 14-16 where is says that “There are certain passages in them (Scripture) hard to understand. The ignorant and the unstable distort them( just as threy do the rest of Scriptures) to their ruin.” 2 Peter,2;1-2 says that"In times past there were false prophets among God’s people, and among you also there will be false teachers who will smuggle in pernicous heresies. They will go so far as to deny the Master who acquired them for His own, thereby bringing on themselves swift disaster." One can also read nearly all of the Epistles and in them you will find that all address false teathers who try to interpete Scripture and the Good News( Gospels) to their own way of thinking because they think and believe that they do not need anyone to tell them or the Church for that matter how to interpet. What they are doing is interpteting Scripture to fit preconcieved ideas and not what Scripture actually says. What JW are in a sense is that they are practiceing the herecy of Monophysitism which denied Jesus’ human nature. This heresy was condemned by the Council of Chalcedon in 451. you might also use ( cf. Lk. 24:39) where Jesus said to the Apostles " Lay hold, handle Me, and see that I am not a ghost." And immediately they touched Him and believed,being convinced both by His flesh and spirit. And after His resurrection He ate and drank with them, as having flesh,although spiritually He was united to the Father. some ignorantly deny Him not confessing that He truly had a body. This was written by St.Ignatius. I hope this might of some small help to you in and when you confront JW’s

 

[Phyllo]

Don’t argue with them! Just tell them you are not interested, they are trained to trap you and I mean trained. They love to snag ignorant Catholics and brag about it all the time.

Linus2nd

She is a friend so it is not easy to ignore her. And I wouldn’t classify my self as an ignorant Catholic.

 

[Phyllo]

The JW rely on several people who use prophecy to interpet Scripture which is of a personal nature to which they then indoctrinate their followers. 2 Peter 2;1-9 is what I have use in, when confronting them. I also use 2 Peter 3; 14-16 where is says that “There are certain passages in them (Scripture) hard to understand. The ignorant and the unstable distort them( just as threy do the rest of Scriptures) to their ruin.” 2 Peter,2;1-2 says that"In times past there were false prophets among God’s people, and among you also there will be false teachers who will smuggle in pernicous heresies. They will go so far as to deny the Master who acquired them for His own, thereby bringing on themselves swift disaster." One can also read nearly all of the Epistles and in them you will find that all address false teathers who try to interpete Scripture and the Good News( Gospels) to their own way of thinking because they think and believe that they do not need anyone to tell them or the Church for that matter how to interpet. What they are doing is interpteting Scripture to fit preconcieved ideas and not what Scripture actually says. What JW are in a sense is that they are practiceing the herecy of Monophysitism which denied Jesus’ human nature. This heresy was condemned by the Council of Chalcedon in 451. you might also use ( cf. Lk. 24:39) where Jesus said to the Apostles " Lay hold, handle Me, and see that I am not a ghost." And immediately they touched Him and believed,being convinced both by His flesh and spirit. And after His resurrection He ate and drank with them, as having flesh,although spiritually He was united to the Father. some ignorantly deny Him not confessing that He truly had a body. This was written by St.Ignatius. I hope this might of some small help to you in and when you confront JW’s

I wrote down the scripture versus.

Actually she will think that we Catholics, are the false prophets.

She is not denying Jesus a body just not His body. Their teachings are just so twisted that it is hard to respond. And she is firm in her belief as am I in mine but I have more difficulty in explaining what I believe and why. I guess then shame on me.

Thanks for the scriptures

 

[doormouse73]

I wrote down the scripture versus.

Actually she will think that we Catholics, are the false prophets.

She is not denying Jesus a body just not His body. Their teachings are just so twisted that it is hard to respond. And she is firm in her belief as am I in mine but I have more difficulty in explaining what I believe and why. I guess then shame on me.

Thanks for the scriptures

I guess then shame on me.

dont be to hard on yourself.im a lot like you feel. i dont know how to word things… or how to respond…

the Holy spirit will look after you,the apostles were the same,confused and baffled…

the Holy spirit came to their aid,it will come to yours… St Peter used to jump in two feet first and get it wrong,but he learned from the situation,and the Holy spirit helped him… He has the keys to Heaven.

Randy Carson gave you a great start,learn from people on here,there are some fantastic people who are glad to help…

all the very best,

 

[Phyllo]

dont be to hard on yourself.im a lot like you feel. i dont know how to word things… or how to respond…

the Holy spirit will look after you,the apostles were the same,confused and baffled…

the Holy spirit came to their aid,it will come to yours… St Peter used to jump in two feet first and get it wrong,but he learned from the situation,and the Holy spirit helped him… He has the keys to Heaven.

Randy Carson gave you a great start,learn from people on here,there are some fantastic people who are glad to help…

all the very best,

Thanks.

I know the people here have never failed me yet.

 

[spina1953]

What was trying to say is that they and others like them will distort Scriptues to suit their own thinking. It was done during Jesus’ time on earth and also as the Apostles preached the Good Word as Jesus taught them. Through since that time there has and will be those will twist and distort and misrepresent the truth of the Gospels to suit themselves and will try to get others to believe in whatever they think they want it to mean. I think reading and understanding the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the best defense in understanding our Catholic faith. Also reading the Apologetics, as there are many books on the subject as to how one can answer the questions and explain your faith which in the end is the best one can do. JW’s are very good at trying to get you confused and also to try and get you to chrange what you believe because they want you to believe they are correct and that you are wrong in your beliefs and faith. If those who are trying to get you to change what you believe and no matter what you say to them does not do any good, then it is better just to say my faith is not open to discussion.

 

[spina1953]

I would like to add , read Matt chapter 10:14-15 about Jesus saying to theApostles to shake off the dust from your feet if they will not listen to you. Sometimes it is better those who will not listen to what you have t say to just let it go and let them know that you are not interested in what they have to say concerning their JW beliefs. be strng in your Catholic faith and remember there will always be those who will not hear or listen to the truth of our Catholic aith and when yu come accross them its better not to get into an argurment with them.