Body of Christ...Where do Non-Catholic Christians Fall in this and is our body of Christ pertain to only the Catholic Community?

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flightkid

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My wife is a convert from the Lutheran faith, but her parents (my in laws) are still Lutherans. When we Catholics say the “body of Christ” are we refering to the Catholic CHurch without the protestants or they just in imperfect communion? ALso when we say “Mystical Body” are we also saying the body without the protestants or we talking about the Catholic Church? CAn we have the Catholic Church without Christ or Christ without the Catholic Church? Are they inseperable? I know that we have one baptism for the forgiveness of sins in Christ and the profession to Christ as the head is our common denominator, but I do not know how to explain to them where they stand in Catholic terms with the “body of Christ”. ALso I ask this because they think ALL Christians should be allowed at a open communion as well since profess Christ as the head. Need a little help explaining please.

My wifes mom says that all Christians are united in the “the body of christ” because of the head who is Christ himself. So where do other Christians stand? If they are in the body than why not allow them communion since they profess Christ as their head? and have the one baptism for the forgiveness of sins? How can we show the St. Paul in scripture was talking about the CAtholic Church body united to the head instead of the all Christian Churchs?
 
The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ. Heretics, schismatics and apostates are outside of the fold of Christ and unless they are in some way united to Her before death they are outside the ark of salvation and will be lost.

Christ said ‘He who hears you hears Me and he who rejects you rejects Me and he who rejects Me rejects the Father who sent Me.’ And also, ‘if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.’

Some protestants may have natural faith but not divine Faith. Supernatural faith believes all Christ has revealed solely on the merits of it being God who revealed it. Natural faith is one who believes because he is convinced of this truth or that but does not accept everything that Christ revealed. He picks and chooses - which is what ‘heresy’ means; to choose.

Here is a sermon which will help you out:

audiosancto.org/sermon/20091115-Salvation-is-Only-in-the-Catholic-Church.html
 
I think you may be misguided…The Cathecism does not state that…It says that “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” has been mis-interpreted many times. It says the the latin word for outside can mean two things…outside or without. The true interpretation is that WITHOUT the Church there is no salvation and that other non catholic christians are in imperfect communion and its not OUTSIDE. There are truly man protestants that are ignorant of Catholic teaching than will be saved according to the Cathecism. Its only if they 100% by conscious know the Catholic Church is the true Church and deny it.

Any other thoughts?? Just trying to figure out where they stan in the “body of Christ.”
 
flightkid said:
I think you may be misguided…The Cathecism does not state that…It says that “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” has been mis-interpreted many times. It says the the latin word for outside can mean two things…outside or without.
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Sorry but the catechism does not state that anywhere. You need to read CCC 846-848 and even then those paragraphs need to be understood in light of tradition.

836-838 deals with membership in the Church. #838 specifically deals with protestants specifically and states that they’re joined to the Church “in many ways” but imperfectly. In other words they’re in what the new catechism calls an “imperfect communion” or commonly referred to as not being in ‘full communion.’ It’s a nice way of saying they’re outside the Church and the communion of Saints. Pope Pius XII, in Humani Generis, unambiguously states, “the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing.” and in Mystici Corporis (on the very topic you inquire about):
  1. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.”[17] As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith.[18] And therefore, if a man refuse to hear the Church, let him be considered - so the Lord commands - as a heathen and a publican. [19] It follows that those who are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.
The post-conciliar statements ambiguously leave the impression that somehow ‘imperfect communion’ is a good thing. It might be a better starting point than working with non-Christians (who have no Christian foundation whatsoever) - at least on an intellectual level - but the problem with that is being imperfectly united to your spouse would imply contraception, adultery, infidelity or something along those lines. That’s not a very good thing when the Church is referred to as the spotless and chaste Bride of Christ. Pope Pius XII makes it very clear that those who are in ‘imperfect communion’ are outside but they have some things in common with the Catholic Church. Don’t be confused with having something in common with someone and being a family - two different things.
 
I disagree to an extent with you…

"Returning to the statement “Outside the church there is no salvation”, the Catechism restates positively that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the church which is His Body. What this statement does not mean is that you have to be a member of a Catholic Parish to be saved. We are bound by Christ’s sacraments and commands but He is not bound by His own rules, laws, and pronouncements. He can extend His mercy to whoever He wishes. This concept was affirmed by the Vatican’s Holy Office in 1949. The book Catholic Replies sums up the teaching of the Church concerning what it means to be “saved” through the Church: What the doctrine of no salvation outside the Church does mean is that everyone is saved through the Catholic Church either as faithful members of that Church, or as members of churches which contain some significant elements of truth and sanctification found in the Catholic Church, or as persons who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience (Catechism n 847). Those churches which contain some elements of truth would be, for example, protestant churches that practice Trinitarian baptism.

But just because the Church recognizes the validity of Baptism in some Christian churches it does not mean that all Christian denominations are equally true as stated in the Decree on Ecumenism. Even though the Catholic Church states that those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are brought into a certain, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church and are properly regarded as brothers in the Lord by the sons of the Catholic Church (Decree on Ecumenism, n.3), the Church in the documents of Vatican II stops short of calling these separated Christians as members of the “Body of Christ,” mindful of the statement issued in the 1943 encyclical of Pope Pius XII On the Mystical Body (Mystici Corporis): Only those are to be included as real members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith and have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body or been excluded from it by legitimate authority for serious faults."

Please read this article…
agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Is%20Salvation%20Possible%20Outside%20the%20Church%20.htm
 
This is very important as well…

Returning to the statement “Outside the church there is no salvation”, the Catechism restates positively that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the church which is His Body. **What this statement does not mean is that you have to be a member of a Catholic Parish to be saved. We are bound by Christ’s sacraments and commands but He is not bound by His own rules, laws, and pronouncements. He can extend His mercy to whoever He wishes. **This concept was affirmed by the Vatican’s Holy Office in 1949. The book Catholic Replies sums up the teaching of the Church concerning what it means to be “saved” through the Church: What the doctrine of no salvation outside the Church does mean is that everyone is saved through the Catholic Church either as faithful members of that Church, or as members of churches which contain some significant elements of truth and sanctification found in the Catholic Church, or as persons who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience (Catechism n 847). Those churches which contain some elements of truth would be, for example, protestant churches that practice Trinitarian baptism.
 
the Church in the documents of Vatican II stops short of calling these separated Christians as members of the “Body of Christ,” mindful of the statement issued in the 1943 encyclical of Pope Pius XII On the Mystical Body (Mystici Corporis): Only those are to be included as real members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith and have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body or been excluded from it by legitimate authority for serious faults."

You are right that they may be outside of the “Body od Christ”, but salvation is still possible because they profess Christ as their savior even though they are in imperfect communion and Christ is God and is not bound to his laws or sacraments in a ABSOLUTE sense. Yes he willed his Catholic Church to be a channel through which salvation comes, but its not a absolute!
 
When I hear the words, “The Body of Christ”, I think of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. When we Catholics receive Holy Communion, we are receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. The protestant churches cannot make this claim. To them it is just a symbol.
 
Hawko I agree with u…but there are some protestant churchs that believe in the Real Prescence such as the Lutherans. Now they do not get as technical and call it transubstatntion, but they use another word, but to me its all schemantics. They do believe in the real prescence though.
 
Flightkid,

Your post was about who is in the Body of Christ - EENS is a different (although related) subject. I think the CCC references I gave as well as Pius XII should answer your question.

God Bless,
 
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