Boettner List Series: Part 1 - Praying for the Dead

[ahs]

I’m not sure how many Catholics on here still have a need to refute claims from Loraine Boettner’s “list”, but I run across these types of claim on Facebook somewhat often.

Some time ago, Church Militant posted a link to his blog where he posted an article by Wayne A. Ariss. Mr. Ariss takes the Boettner list point-by-point, the whole thing, and provides the historical information that Mr. Boettner did not makes use of (whether intentionally or not) while writing his book “Roman Catholicism”. (The link to this is posted at the bottom of my blog post…which is linked below).

I have set out to take Mr. Ariss’ work and break it down further to discuss each point (or at least discuss the similarly themed ones together) in more detail, while still trying to keep it in the 1,000 word arena.

First up, is Praying for the Dead, and Purgatory…discussed together.

daves-ahumbleservant.blogspot.com/2013/08/loraine-boettners-list-part-1.html

Feel free to discuss here on CAF. I’ll be back tonight or tomorrow to post snips here for discussion if someone else does not.

 

[DavidFilmer]

This is an interesting topic. I composed a reply, but, in doing so, I realized my reply was a bit wide of topic (as it addressed more the premise of your question than the question itself), and I really thought it should be discussed in a dedicated thread.

So I have taken the liberty of opening this thread (with a poll, even) to discuss my thoughts. I hope you will cast your vote!

Cheers!

 

[ahs]

Thanks Mr. Filmer…I voted and commented on your post.

So, for the lay Catholic who may encounter claims about “inventing” Purgatory and the like, here is just a breif summary to keep handy. Remember, you don’t have to “prove” that the Church is right…you just put the facts out there and let Truth do its thing. “The Church believes…because…” Once it comes to “…well, Catholics are WRONG…” you can put the onus on them:
“Why is the Church wrong for believing what the Ssriptures say? Why is the Church’s understanding of that verse wrong…who gets to say which understanding is right/wrong? Why is it wrong to look into history to see how the early Christians believed and worshipped and practiced theri faith?”

So, for Purgatory: It was NOT invented in the 300’s or the 500’s. Christian history shows it well before this, mentioned as in passing over 100 years before Christ. Also, “…it is NOT an alternative to hell, and it is NOT a second chance, and it is NOT where someone can be forgiven from any sins. Purgatory is a place, or process, whereby those who are already saved, yet having the stain of sins-already-forgiven, are purified before entering into Heaven.” The Church teaches on the topic in CCC 1030-1032, and you may also look up “indulgences” in the Catechism for a better understanding.

2Macc 12:46 is strong evidence for the teaching, as well as 2Sam 12:13-14, Heb 12:22-23, 1Cor 3:13-15, and Rev 21:27. (2Sam is NOT the only place where we see punishment for sin after being forgiven…it’s just the one I learned to use. )

"Straight from the Bible, then, we see the Catholic principles for Purgatory: 1) Scripture shows us, explicitly, that a man can be punished for his sin AFTER he had been forgiven (2Sam 12:13-18, et.al). 2) Scripture tells us, explicitly, that there is a place where a man, after he has died, and is saved, can suffer loss as through fire (1Cor 3:13-15). 3) There is a place, or process, where the SPIRITS of just men are made perfect (Heb 12:22-23). 4) Nothing unclean can enter Heaven.

Where is this place that Scripture tells us about, where the SPIRITS of JUST men are made perfect, where a man, though he is saved, can suffer loss as through fire? Is it Heaven? No…we don’t suffer loss in Heaven. Is it hell? No….no one gets out of hell. The Church has given the name “Purgatory” to this place, or process, where our souls are made clean…because nothing unclean shall enter Heaven (Rev 21:27)."