Bongo drums, modern songs, and waving hands

[rlg94086]

Know this one?
“Holy, Holy, Holy Lord! God of Power, God of Might! Heaven and Earth are full of your Glory! Hosanna in the Highest! Blessed is He who comes, in the name of the Lord, in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest! Hosanna in the Highest!”

I have it burned into my brain…it hurt.

[edit add] Oh wait…the one I used to sing was “God of Power and Might…”, “Hosanna, Hosanna on high” and only one “in the name of the Lord”, so it might be a different version. I don’t remember the composer. [edit end]

I prefer the version we sing/chant at our Mass - “Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus Dominus Deus Sabaoth. Pleni sunt caeli et terra gloria tua. Hosanna in excelsis. Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini. Hosanna in excelsis.”

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I have it burned into my brain…it hurt.

I prefer the version we sing/chant at our Mass - “Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus Dominus Deus Sabaoth. Pleni sunt caeli et terra gloria tua. Hosanna in excelsis. Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini. Hosanna in excelsis.”

So you know the tune?
Yay!

I like the one we do, cause it looks and sounds a little like call/response, but comes out more as harmony. And my daughter is having an easier time learning the responses.

Holy Holy Lord (Holy Holy Lord)
God of Power and Might (God of Power and Might)
Heaven and Earth are full (Heaven and Earth are full)
Of your Glory (of your glory)
Hosanna (Hosanna)
Hosanna (Hosanna)
In the Highest (In the highest)
Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord
Hosanna (Hosanna)
Hosanna (Hosanna)
In the Highest (In the highest)

 

[rlg94086]

So you know the tune?
Yay!

Oops…edited my post - I think it’s a different version.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

[edit add] Oh wait…the one I used to sing was “God of Power and Might…”, “Hosanna, Hosanna on high” and only one “in the name of the Lord”, so it might be a different version. I don’t remember the composer. [edit end]

Well fine then

 

[agapewolf]

Even though a little off topic here, just so you guys know, the words you just wrote about are the actual ones prescribed by the sacramentary to say (the Holy Holy). Its the tune that I’m sure you are trying to get across, but honestly, those words were exactly the same.

I just want to also say…singing a song at Mass, even a faster upbeat one, one that brings about joy, does not mean it is irreverent. Reverent does not equal quiet or slow.

 

[rlg94086]

Of course. You can tell a little from the variation in words, but without the music it’s pretty tough.

I have to disagree with you about music. Style does have an effect on reverence. You are correct that reverence does not equal quiet and slow, but that doesn’t mean that all music is equally reverent. That’s why the Church says: usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml#sect2

1. Great importance should therefore be attached to the use of singing in the celebration of the Mass, with due consideration for the culture of the people and abilities of each liturgical assembly. Although it is not always necessary (e.g., in weekday Masses) to sing all the texts that are of themselves meant to be sung, every care should be taken that singing by the ministers and the people is not absent in celebrations that occur on Sundays and on holy days of obligation.

In the choosing of the parts actually to be sung, however, preference should be given to those that are of greater importance and especially to those to be sung by the priest or the deacon or the lector, with the people responding, or by the priest and people together.49

1. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.50

Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently,*** it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies***.51

Even though a little off topic here, just so you guys know, the words you just wrote about are the actual ones prescribed by the sacramentary to say (the Holy Holy). Its the tune that I’m sure you are trying to get across, but honestly, those words were exactly the same.

I just want to also say…singing a song at Mass, even a faster upbeat one, one that brings about joy, does not mean it is irreverent. Reverent does not equal quiet or slow.

 

[Wolseley]

Yes, that’s the one! Then they sing "JESUS (clap, clap), JESUS (clap, clap) JESUS IS THE LORD! (clap, clap). You make me wonder if you have attended Mass at my parish recently, because I can’t imagine there being 2 parishes in the world that sing that song on purpose.

Unfortunately, “Holly Holly” is more prevalent than you might think. They sang it at my parish last Sunday too. I didn’t partake.

I remember discussing liturgical abuses with a priest at a former parish once; I got the Standard Party Line about “You’re there for the Eucharist, everything else you just have to put up with”; and some time later when he mentioned that he hadn’t seen me singing at Mass recently (Glory and Praise, may God preserve us), and how he liked to see more “audience participation”, I said, “Well, you know how it is, Father: I’m here for the Eucharist. Everything else you just have to put up with.”

He wasn’t amused.

But then, neither was I.

 

[agapewolf]

You aren’t disagreeing with me. I didn’t say that style doesn’t have an effect. I know it does. Both positively and negatively.

But just because something is joyful in nature, that draws people to clap along, does not mean it is irreverant. Especially when talking about teenagers.

The idea that it is irreverant is from each one’s own personal filter. To me, it looks like teens feeling moved to participate even further in the Mass. I see passion, I see prayer, I see teenagers dragging their parents back to Mass.

Showing reverence does have to equal one way.

 

[Manresa]

As someone who is from the South I can say that I understand where you are coming from. Originally I am from South Louisiana, which is extremely heavily Catholic and the way of practicing that fatih there is different from where I currently live which is in Northeast Georgia. In NE Georgia, anything and everythoing goes. I have attributed this to one thing, the fact the Catholic is growing by leaps and bounds in Southern areas that were traditionally Protestant and Non-Catholic. Last year alone, 2500 people converted to Catholicism in the Archdiocese of Atlanta alone. What I have noticed is that many of these converts, even though they completely embrace the Catholic faith and start to assimilate into their various parishes and take on ministeral duties, they tend to bring their Protestant and Non-Catholic traditions with them and thus these areas tend to have a more “robust” way of celebrating the Mass.

In the end, all one has to ask is… was God praised.

 

[OneAugustKnight]

You know, my priest is a really good man. I think that the last priest probably made the choir sing those beautiful lilting hymns. He has fantasic voice and sang nearly his entire retirement Mass. The new priest is more easy going about parishoners making decisions about the parish, I think.

I think he probably told the choir they can sing what they want and they are singing shorter less vocally challenging songs because it’s easier on them. They still sing the good songs for special occasions though.

 

[rlg94086]

You do realize that Mass is a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice, right? That makes it a solemn event, not a happy clappy event. I’m all for joyful music, but I don’t think music you clap along to is appropriate during Christ’s sacrifice.

This is the primary difference between Catholics and Protestants. The Protestants focus nearly 100% on the “risen Lord” in their services. There is nothing wrong with that, but it isn’t the Sacrament Jesus instituted at the Last Supper. I don’t care how someone interprets the Gospel readings, they weren’t singing and dancing at the Last Supper.

As I said, I think a separate Teen event for praise and worship would be great. When I was younger, my wife and I attended a lively service at our friend’s Baptist Church. The friend was a minister and lead singer in their alternative Christian rock band. We sang, we clapped, it was uplifting…but it was not Mass.

You can have both, but please celebrate them at the right times.

You aren’t disagreeing with me. I didn’t say that style doesn’t have an effect. I know it does. Both positively and negatively.

But just because something is joyful in nature, that draws people to clap along, does not mean it is irreverant. Especially when talking about teenagers.

The idea that it is irreverant is from each one’s own personal filter. To me, it looks like teens feeling moved to participate even further in the Mass. I see passion, I see prayer, I see teenagers dragging their parents back to Mass.

Showing reverence does have to equal one way.

 

[agapewolf]

You do realize that the Mass is ALSO equally the celebration of the Resurrection too? We’re not clapping at the consecration for goodness sake (or shouldn’t be). I’m talking about a closing song after the Mass has ended anyway.

 

[rlg94086]

You do realize that the Mass is ALSO equally the celebration of the Resurrection too? We’re not clapping at the consecration for goodness sake (or shouldn’t be). I’m talking about a closing song after the Mass has ended anyway.

There was nothing in any earlier post mentioning happy clappy music only for the closing song, so how was I to know that is what you are doing?

 

[KathleenElsie]

Don’t tell me…let me guess: it’s the one where they all sing, “Holly, holly, holly—LOO-OO-YA! Holly, holly, holly—LOO-OO-YA! Holly, holly, holly—LOO-OO-YA! Holly-LOO-YA! Ha-LAY-LOO-YA!”

The worst ever. I always make fun of it by singing “Holly, holly, holly, MISTELTOE! Holly, IVY, and MISTELTOE!”

My wife gives me dirty looks. Too bad.

LOL we call it the OLIE OLIE OLIE.

 

[KathleenElsie]

This is why my contention is that rather than have a “Teen Mass” with happy clappy music, parishes should just have a Teen “Praise and Worship session” separate from Mass. If you feel the need to attract people with lively music, then do so. At that session, have the priest do some catechetical work - explain the sacrifice of the Mass, explain Confession, explain the Eucharist. Then, hopefully, they will understand why they need to go to Mass.

Mass needs to remain a reverent Mass.

Agreed and thank you.

 

[Linnyo]

it does sound like a great idea but don’t call it teen mass - it rules out those of us who are over 19

Agreed and thank you.

 

[agapewolf]

it does sound like a great idea but don’t call it teen mass - it rules out those of us who are over 19

Actually, thats the whole premise that this is actually allowed. The vatican has approved the idea of having a youth mass. JPII said that teens are a seperate culture in many ways. The fact that all ages seem to enjoy it I think speaks volumes about it, but just by calling it a youth mass does not rule out the “older” people. Instead of looking at it like it is exclusionary, look at it as if it was specifically including our teens in a special way.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Sorry, but this is not how a Mass should be IMO.
Yes the youth do seem to be another species of human. But then we need to welcome them into the adult world and not build then a seperate one of their own.

 

[Cat]

Sorry, but this is not how a Mass should be IMO.
Yes the youth do seem to be another species of human. But then we need to welcome them into the adult world and not build then a seperate one of their own.

Do you have teenagers of your own right now, or do you teach or work with teenagers?

 

[lucybeebee]

It seems to me that many Catholics are ashamed of our heritage. Why should we want to copy the music and forms of Protestantism? We have our own rich musical heritage that we should celebrate and cherish. Another problem is that the average person, regardless of their religious affliation, wants to be entertained 24-7. This is why many modern Protestant mega-churches seem to resemble malls and why dressing down is similarly encouraged. Religion is simply viewed as another form of personal entertainment that is no more or less important than the brand of ice cream that one favors. I also think that many Americans, including Catholics, believe that evangelical Protestantism is the normative form of Christianity, so liturgical worship comes across as being completely foreign. Hence, the use of “folk masses” or “gospel masses” seems quite normal. I can testify that if you really want to hear authentic use of gospel music or country gospel, then a Catholic parish is not the place to go.