Bongo drums, modern songs, and waving hands

[KathleenElsie]

Do you have teenagers of your own right now, or do you teach or work with teenagers?

Simple answer is yes to both. Teacher, social worker and legal credentials.
We are still a family of seven at home. We home school, the boys are altar boys, active in scouts and youth stuff (LOL I call it stuff).
Many of the people (I have personally observed) in their later 20’s and older that were involved in the “clappy happy” stuff are now involved in the “clappy happy” evangelical community down the road and are mostly no longer in the Catholic Church. What the youth are exposed to as children is what they tend to gravitate to as adults.
There was an old saying from my grandmother and probably many others. Raise a child Catholic and in Church and you will have a Catholic Church (Mass) going adult in the end. I guess the opposite goes also. If not trained in the Holy Mass then the Holy Mass becomes less valuable and this saddens me greatly.

 

[KathleenElsie]

It seems to me that many Catholics are ashamed of our heritage. Why should we want to copy the music and forms of Protestantism? We have our own rich musical heritage that we should celebrate and cherish. Another problem is that the average person, regardless of their religious affiliation, wants to be entertained 24-7. This is why many modern Protestant mega-churches seem to resemble malls and why dressing down is similarly encouraged. Religion is simply viewed as another form of personal entertainment that is no more or less important than the brand of ice cream that one favors. I also think that many Americans, including Catholics, believe that evangelical Protestantism is the normative form of Christianity, so liturgical worship comes across as being completely foreign. Hence, the use of “folk masses” or “gospel masses” seems quite normal. I can testify that if you really want to hear authentic use of gospel music or country gospel, then a Catholic parish is not the place to go.

Sometimes being “pasteurized and homogenized” is not a good thing.

 

[stringbeanduck]

We home school, the boys are altar boys, active in scouts and youth stuff (LOL I call it stuff).

Good for you. I am home schooled myself. I got tired of the system, telling me what I had to learn and what I can’t. How dare they! This is my education! Why can’t I have a say in it? So now I choose what I want to learn and what I don’t.

Does a traditional mass look fun to most teens? No. What some of my friends don’t understand is that it is not suppose to be as some of you might call it (happy happy clap clap time). It is to be taken rather serious. Can’t the reading and the homelys and the fact that we get to have a part of Jesus be enough. I have no problem with youth groups. I am in one myself. Getting teens to be in the church does not have to require clapy song and such.

 

[AngelRose81]

It seems to me that many Catholics are ashamed of our heritage. Why should we want to copy the music and forms of Protestantism? We have our own rich musical heritage that we should celebrate and cherish. Another problem is that the average person, regardless of their religious affliation, wants to be entertained 24-7. This is why many modern Protestant mega-churches seem to resemble malls and why dressing down is similarly encouraged. Religion is simply viewed as another form of personal entertainment that is no more or less important than the brand of ice cream that one favors. I also think that many Americans, including Catholics, believe that evangelical Protestantism is the normative form of Christianity, so liturgical worship comes across as being completely foreign. Hence, the use of “folk masses” or “gospel masses” seems quite normal. I can testify that if you really want to hear authentic use of gospel music or country gospel, then a Catholic parish is not the place to go.

I totally agree IMO. Thing is…my parish does a lot of the things mentioned in the thread sometimes and sometimes it gets on my nerves…but…DH & I travel a lot and apparaently the only places we’ve traveled have parishes that have a lot more liturgical abuse than mine (I just can’t pick a good one I guess! ) so by the time that Mass is done, I’m homesick for my parish!!

I have to say though, there have been two Masses that I have been to while traveling where the Mass was lovely… at the Mary, Queen of the Universe Shrine in Orlando & at the Cathedral in Nashville. Both were beautiful!!

 

[rlg94086]

My family has the same experience. My kids especially miss our parish, when we travel. My teenage daughter remarked after one Mass, “what do they think this is - a Broadway show?” After our last vacation in Las Vegas, my wife agreed that we should start looking for a Traditional Latin Mass when we travel, rather than take our chance with the variations on the Ordinary. We don’t go to a TLM right now, but we are guessing that you get more consistently reverent Masses at parishes that offer a TLM.

I totally agree IMO. Thing is…my parish does a lot of the things mentioned in the thread sometimes and sometimes it gets on my nerves…but…DH & I travel a lot and apparaently the only places we’ve traveled have parishes that have a lot more liturgical abuse than mine (I just can’t pick a good one I guess! ) so by the time that Mass is done, I’m homesick for my parish!!

I have to say though, there have been two Masses that I have been to while traveling where the Mass was lovely… at the Mary, Queen of the Universe Shrine in Orlando & at the Cathedral in Nashville. Both were beautiful!!

 

[stringbeanduck]

have to say though, there have been two Masses that I have been to while traveling where the Mass was lovely… at the Mary, Queen of the Universe Shrine in Orlando & at the Cathedral in Nashville. Both were beautiful!!

The Cathedral of Nashville. That’s where I was confirmed! How decorated it is there. If you want a traditional mass, go there. That was the best mass I had ever gone to. And It certainly was the best place to be confirmed.

 

[AngelRose81]

The Cathedral of Nashville. That’s where I was confirmed! How decorated it is there. If you want a traditional mass, go there. That was the best mass I had ever gone to. And It certainly was the best place to be confirmed.

It is a beautiful Cathedral. We went to the 6:00pm Mass one Sunday on the way back home (we are about 2 hrs from Nashville in West Tennessee). We are in the Diocese of Memphis and our Cathedral is built very similar but I like the color scheme of the paint and everything in Nashville much better. I think its larger too.

Do you know if they do a TLM there?

 

[KathleenElsie]

Good for you. I am home schooled myself. I got tired of the system, telling me what I had to learn and what I can’t. How dare they! This is my education! Why can’t I have a say in it? So now I choose what I want to learn and what I don’t.

Does a traditional mass look fun to most teens? No. What some of my friends don’t understand is that it is not suppose to be as some of you might call it (happy happy clap clap time). It is to be taken rather serious. Can’t the reading and the homily’s and the fact that we get to have a part of Jesus be enough. I have no problem with youth groups. I am in one myself. Getting teens to be in the church does not have to require clappy song and such.

Nor sure what to call you so I will call you Bean.

We do Traditional Classic Catholic home school. So the children don’t get to choose what they learn just just when and how they do so. Reading, writing, math, history, the sciences are all laced with our TRADITIONAL beliefs. Even the little one is learning Latin and the Latin prayers.

Bean I assume this is what you meant also.

There are just some things that we don’t allow in our home and the new PC agenda is the major one.

Non Catholic friends tend to ask us questions as to why we do things and we always answer them honestly to the best of our knowledge. We also tend to tell them why we don’t do other things. LOL even when they don’t ask. Our Faith is never hidden under a barrel, so to speak.

But, no religion can survive the lack of teaching their young. Any entity that does not teach the basics of their system will die out. Watering down and providing the bare minimum only means it will take longer for the entity to become extinct. This has been proven time and time again in history and still the average person refuses to believe this.

Bless you Bean. Remember that we OLD people will get smarter as you get older not the other way around.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Yes, I still do reading, writing, history, math, English, and science classes. Also I do a religion class. What I meant was, I don’t like the way public schools tell me what level I have to be at while others get the chance to excel. For an example: I am in 9th grade and do algebra 2. If I were to be at public school, they would only let me do pre-algebra. There are many freedoms with home school and I am sure your kids enjoy it too. The freedom I like the best is that I get to celebrate Catholicism and decorate my bedroom(ie my class room) without making a Jehovah witness mad.

Bean is fine, or SBD which ever you feel better with.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Yes, I still do reading, writing, history, math, English, and science classes. Also I do a religion class. What I meant was, I don’t like the way public schools tell me what level I have to be at while others get the chance to excel. For an example: I am in 9th grade and do algebra 2. If I were to be at public school, they would only let me do pre-algebra. There are many freedoms with home school and I am sure your kids enjoy it too. The freedom I like the best is that I get to celebrate Catholicism and decorate my bedroom(ie my class room) without making a Jehovah witness mad.

Bean is fine, or SBD which ever you feel better with.

Well Bean in our case the classroom (was the formal living room) is decorated with lots of bookshelves with books that would make a public school cringe , a private altar (we can burn candles anytime we wish), a computer station, the dogs are underfoot as is the baby, lots of supplies and good lighting not harsh fluorescent. We still dress modestly and with respect to others. We do a family rosary at 8:30 to start the day. Mass on weekdays is at one of three parishes near us. Physical education is sometimes yard work, trampoline, bike trail, hikes, soccer or other team sport with the other Catholic Home School families.

Hope you do well and God Bless you and your family.

 

[thedavidwilson]

I’m sorry, but I must disagree. Even though there are teenagers that do certainly like tradition, and live in households that support a moral Catholic life, unfortunately this is not the case most of the time. That preference is certainly valid and wonderful, but it does not invalidate the other preferences.

I am a music director at a church, and I play all ages of music. ITs amazing really, not only does the Lifeteen Mass attract the most people, including the teens (some of whom would not go to church unless we had this…and no this isn’t a good reason, but its the first step). but I get all ages…our biggest fan is a 92 year old man. The positive comments I get is when I play contemporary songs that touch the heart, not when I play chant.

I already know a million comments and things to pick apart in this post. I’ve heard them ALL already. This is just a simple note though about what is actually most of the time bringing the semi-churched in deeper. The same is for me…I hated church when I was a kid…I grew up in a good household too, but church was absolutely meaningless for me, I dreaded it and hated it. When I discovered the Mass done with passion and music that didn’t sound like a durge, that attracted me to search deeper. Now, becasue of the “happy clappy” (as people like to call it), I am able to go to a quiet daily Mass, or quiet adoration and know that Christ is there no matter what.

The Mass in an entering into the sacrafice on calvary. It is not a recreation, it is not symbolic, it is not the “Lord’s Supper” and it is certainly not a time to get together and have a good time with your fellow catholics while listening to the bongos. Save that for after the Mass when you are having the coffe and doughnuts.

During the Mass we are truely present at the sacrafice on calvary and we are there to offer up our suffering, our sacrafice to the Lord. Just imagine if your mom or child was being crucified or executed in that church. Would you be singing upbeat songs and playing the bongos?

Probably the reason you thought the Mass was meaningless is because you were never taught the meaning of the Mass. The popularity of something is no judge of how right it is. The Truth is never popular. It is better to have a smaller church comprised of those who truely understand (or want to understand) what the Mass is rather than a group who are just attending for the entertainment. The Catholic Church will never compete with the pagan world in terms of entertainment so we should never try to do that in the Mass or anywhere else. The Catholic Church does, however, contain the fullness of the Truth and that is something the pagan world cannot touch. God bless!

“…we ought to get back to the dimension of the sacred in the liturgy. The liturgy is not a festivity; it is not a meeting for the purpose of having a good time. The liturgy is what make the Thrice-Holy God present amongst us; it is the burning bush; it is the Alliance of God with man in Jesus Christ, Who has died and risen again. The grandeur of the liturgy does not rest upon the fact that it offers an interesting entertainment, but in rendering tangible the Totally Other, Whom we are not capable of summoning…the essential in the liturgy is the mystery, which is realized in the common ritual of the Church; all the rest diminishes it. Men experiment with it in lively fashion, and find themselves deceived, when the mystery is transformed into distraction, when the chief actor in the liturgy is not the Living God but the priest or the liturgical director.” Cardinal Ratzinger, 7/13/88

 

[agapewolf]

And again, as I said before, the Mass is ALSO a celebration of the RESURRECTION. After Jesus rose from the dead, and finally was recognized, I’ll bet they danced and sang.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a joyful upbeat song at Mass. Nothing,

I’m not judging the rightness of this Mass by the popularity, but by the fruits. We have teens coming that never came before, then deciding on a vocation. It’s not that its popular, but that its effective.

 

[thedavidwilson]

And again, as I said before, the Mass is ALSO a celebration of the RESURRECTION. After Jesus rose from the dead, and finally was recognized, I’ll bet they danced and sang.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a joyful upbeat song at Mass. Nothing,

I’m not judging the rightness of this Mass by the popularity, but by the fruits. We have teens coming that never came before, then deciding on a vocation. It’s not that its popular, but that its effective.

You may have fruit but you should be careful what fruit you get. You would like for the fruit to be true and correct to the teachings of the Church and respectful of God and the sacrafice of the Mass.

Most if not all of the liturguical abuses come from preiests who were formed in the more liberal seminaries and allow for “bongos” at the Mass. I have never seen, nor do I expect, liturgical abuses from FSSP priests or more traditional priests. I think that is because the are the fruit of a more respectful Mass that has the sacrafice at the center. For a good explanation of the Mass check out:
fatherrego.com/carb.html
Go down to this section and listen to the audio. God bless!
Catholic Connection Radio Broadcasts
“The Eucharist”

 

[agapewolf]

these teens going into vocations are going into conservative orders and orthodox diocese. Bongos at mass are not a liturgical abuse.

So interesting, one of the most orthodox conservative bishops (Burke in St. louis) allows, blesses and has celebrated lifeteen masses in the diocese. what you want to believe is abuse or scandal is not.

 

[Cat]

I’ll try to say this without sounding rude. I think it is wrong of some of you to imply that modern Masses, or Masses like Life Teen are not reverent or liturgically correct, and that the teenagers and others who participate are not as “holy” or “Catholic” as you are.

Modern Masses and music are approved by the Vatican.

Some of you imply that most teenagers are more interested in traditional Mass rather than modern Mass.

Our city has had a TLM for many years, offered twice on Sundays, and every weekday. There are teenagers that attend with their families. But the vast majority of teenagers don’t seem very interested in TLM.

With all due respect, I think some of you are assuming that because you feel a certain way, everyone else must feel that way, too. I suggest, again with respect, that you should base your statements about youth and tradition on real facts, not just your feelings. Do you have scientific polls or surverys that indicate that teenagers are more interested in traditional Mass rather than modern?

Teenagers in our city are blessed to have the option of TLM, Life Teen, and liturgically-correct NO Masses. We are extremely fortunate to have a Bishop who tries to provide many Mass opportunities to his flock and works diligently to make sure that all of these Masses are liturgically-correct and free of abuse!

Our Life Teen Mass is very reverent, even though the music is contemporary rock and accompanied by a teen rock band (drums, guitars, keyboard).

Music does not have to be quiet or ancient to be reverent.

The Life Teen Mass is liturgically correct, too.

It attracts a huge crowd, including hundreds of teenagers and a lot of parents and grandparents. If you come late to Life Teen, you’ll have to stand at the back of the sanctuary.

I simply have to speak up and defend our youth leaders, our priests, and our Bishop and above all, our teenagers Life Teen Mass is very reverent and liturgical, and those people who participate are not coming for a “Broadway show,” they’re coming to receive Jesus, just as you are.

You are certainly welcome to attend the Mass of your choice, and if prefer classical music to contemporary and an ancient Mass rather than a modern Mass (both are approved by the Vatican), that’s wonderful.

But please don’t demean others who are different than you, but still just as Catholic and Christian.

 

[thedavidwilson]

I’ll try to say this without sounding rude. I think it is wrong of some of you to imply that modern Masses, or Masses like Life Teen are not reverent or liturgically correct, and that the teenagers and others who participate are not as “holy” or “Catholic” as you are…

Hmmmm…Then why can’t I attend Mass naked. I am reverent and worshipful in my own way, so what clothes I wear or lack of clothes should not matter. Right?

Again just becasue something is popular does not make it correct and does not provide the occasion of sin. Pornography is a multibillion dollar industry in the US. Because it is so popular, is it right?

Most teenagers don’t eat their vegtables or want to do their homework but that does not mean we don’t make them do these things. Teenagers are still being formed and it is our job as parents/neighbors to form them the proper way even though they don’t want to do it. We form them a certain way hopefully based on Catholic Truth and Catholic Morality.

And the earlier point about the teenagers going to orthodox seminaries: If they are so enamored with the “Bongo mass” wouldn’t they go to a seminary that teaches them these things. The “orthodox” ot traditional seminaries I know of teach against the “bongo mass”.

The way we celebrate the Mass has similar if not the same standards as the way we attend Mass. We have to think of what the Mass truely means and base our behavior and demeanor on that. It is the death of our Lord that is happening at the Mass. We are receiving our Lord in the Eucharist. I refer you to my analogy of one of your family members being killed in front of you. That is not the time for up lifting music. Yes, we can get a charge out of the Mass but we are there to offer ourselves (sacrifice) with Jesus Christ on the cross. Just my opinion based on Catholic teaching.
BTW I am not demeaning others…I am commenting on how they demean and trivialize the sacrafice of the Mass. God bless.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I have to agree with thedavidwilson. Traditionalism separates the CC from protestant churches. I had a friend who came with me to a teen rock/concert type thing at our church. It had Jesus type songs in it. I did not care for it so much but she loved it. As I got to know her better. I noticed she only like the rock part, and the socializing. The teen youth groups I liked better because it was more about learning and less songs. She on the other hand did not care for the youth group or me because I was serious in my faith and she was just want to have fun. A lot of her friends were that way too. It’s up too the parents to explain to their kids about the faith.

 

[agapewolf]

For the third time, it is not just the sacrifice but also the RESURRECTION…we do celebrate SUNDAY you know.

why do the teens go to orthodox seminaries? because…its WORKING…that is my whole point. Tradition, for them, was not.

YEs, we should form the teens the right way, but guess what, its not happening. THis is a starting point. get the teens to mass. then now, they want a passionate worship experience, without watering down the truth.

An upbeat song done joyfully in no way trivializes the Mass or sacrifce. It is absolutely insulting that you say it does. As I have stated before in this thread. These kinds of masses helped me to understand more fully the beauty of the Mass. now because of LifeTeen, I am able to go to a quiet daily Mass and pray just the same.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Yes, but what will happen to traditional mass if we don’t celebrate it. It made me sad to see our parish lose that tradition. It made my family and I not want to go at all. There can be other times to do the beating of the drums and the modern songs.

 

[agapewolf]

I don’t think that the trad mass should go away. It has its beauty too. I just don’t like the more contemporary mass invalidated.

I believe there is a place for both