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Linnyo
Guest
No - it is more than that - some believe that by offering the Eucharist, we are sacrificing again and again. They think this is barbaric.
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rlg94086
Guest
That too
…I was thinking of adoration.
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rlg94086
Guest
I could have put Confession on the list, but sadly many parishes have almost done away with that…at least judging by the minimal lines at their once-a-week Confession times.
M
Madaglan
Guest
Oh ok. So, it’s not the Eucharist itself but what Catholics believe concerning the Eucharist.
R
rlg94086
Guest
If a Protestant is attending a Catholic Mass, how are they supposed to separate the two?
If they don’t realize that half the Mass is a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice and that we are receiving Christ - body, blood, soul and divinity, then I guess they might think they were at a Protestant service.
C
Cat
Guest
Forgive me if I have given the wrong impression.
I am NOT suggesting that the liturgy be compromised or eliminated. I am NOT suggesting that Mass become a non-Mass. I am NOT suggesting that Catholicism should become Protestant.
I am stating that since the VATICAN has approved of the use of modern music and other practices in the liturgy (such as use of the local language, instruments other than the organ, etc.) that we should use these not only because many Catholics prefer them, but because they are more likely to attract non-Catholics to the Holy Mass and the presence of the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
The key point is that the VATICAN has approved these modern practices. We should never venture outside the boundaries of Vatican-approved liturgy. But we shouldn’t criticize those who follow the Vatican’s guidelines. Even if it is not our personal preference, we have no right to condemn people who are doing no wrong by using “modern” music and practices in the Mass as long as they are following the GIRM and submitting to the rubrics of the Church.
Remember what I Corinthians says? There are varieties of gifts, but the SAME SPIRIT. I think that many of you are gifted in “traditional” Catholicism, and you are given the ability by the Holy Spirit to teach non-Catholics about the faith through the traditional liturgy. That’s so good and wonderful, and I am thankful that you are using your gifts to bring many people into the kingdom of God!
Others are gifted differently than you. The Holy Spirit helps them to use the Vatican-approved “modern” Mass to attract and teach non-Christians and non-Catholics. That’s good, too! Again, many people are joining the Church.
The end result is the same: people become disciples of Jesus Christ and join the Church that He started. They get started on their journey to heaven.
Different gifts, same Spirit.
I am NOT suggesting that the liturgy be compromised or eliminated. I am NOT suggesting that Mass become a non-Mass. I am NOT suggesting that Catholicism should become Protestant.
I am stating that since the VATICAN has approved of the use of modern music and other practices in the liturgy (such as use of the local language, instruments other than the organ, etc.) that we should use these not only because many Catholics prefer them, but because they are more likely to attract non-Catholics to the Holy Mass and the presence of the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
The key point is that the VATICAN has approved these modern practices. We should never venture outside the boundaries of Vatican-approved liturgy. But we shouldn’t criticize those who follow the Vatican’s guidelines. Even if it is not our personal preference, we have no right to condemn people who are doing no wrong by using “modern” music and practices in the Mass as long as they are following the GIRM and submitting to the rubrics of the Church.
Remember what I Corinthians says? There are varieties of gifts, but the SAME SPIRIT. I think that many of you are gifted in “traditional” Catholicism, and you are given the ability by the Holy Spirit to teach non-Catholics about the faith through the traditional liturgy. That’s so good and wonderful, and I am thankful that you are using your gifts to bring many people into the kingdom of God!
Others are gifted differently than you. The Holy Spirit helps them to use the Vatican-approved “modern” Mass to attract and teach non-Christians and non-Catholics. That’s good, too! Again, many people are joining the Church.
The end result is the same: people become disciples of Jesus Christ and join the Church that He started. They get started on their journey to heaven.
Different gifts, same Spirit.
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
To Cat:
Perhaps you would explain to me how in May of 1969 Simon and Garfunkle’s (I trust you remember them) “Bridge over Troubled Water” and “Sounds of Silence” became sacred popular music for my high school graduation to be sung at my graduation?
Or explain to me how as a junior singing in the choir for the graduation of my Catholic high school’s graduation in 1968, I sang traditional Catholic hymns and Latin
What happened between 1968 and 1969? Were guitars and Simon and Garfunkle acceptable in the spring of 1969?
Perhaps you would explain to me how in May of 1969 Simon and Garfunkle’s (I trust you remember them) “Bridge over Troubled Water” and “Sounds of Silence” became sacred popular music for my high school graduation to be sung at my graduation?
Or explain to me how as a junior singing in the choir for the graduation of my Catholic high school’s graduation in 1968, I sang traditional Catholic hymns and Latin
What happened between 1968 and 1969? Were guitars and Simon and Garfunkle acceptable in the spring of 1969?
C
Cat
Guest
brotherhrolf, I don’t know the answer to your questions. I was twelve years old and Baptist back then. I have no idea what was in the minds of those who planned the music for your high school graduation.
With respect, I don’t understand the connection between your question and the appropriateness of bongos, modern songs, and lifting hands in Mass today.
You’re talking about a high school graduation that happened almost 40 years ago. This thread is about Masses in the U.S. that are happening this weekend. What is the connection, please?
Again, with respect, I sense some bitterness, and I’m sorry that you’ve been hurt. I’ve read your story on CAF, about how your traditions were ripped away from your church. I’m sorry for that. I know how it is. It happens in Protestant churches, too.
The Vatican has said “OK” to modern music, instruments, vernacular, etc. Isn’t that the end of it? Those who don’t like this style of Mass are free to attend a Mass where they are comfortable, although many of you have said that Mass isn’t about “being comfortable.”
With respect, I don’t understand the connection between your question and the appropriateness of bongos, modern songs, and lifting hands in Mass today.
You’re talking about a high school graduation that happened almost 40 years ago. This thread is about Masses in the U.S. that are happening this weekend. What is the connection, please?
Again, with respect, I sense some bitterness, and I’m sorry that you’ve been hurt. I’ve read your story on CAF, about how your traditions were ripped away from your church. I’m sorry for that. I know how it is. It happens in Protestant churches, too.
The Vatican has said “OK” to modern music, instruments, vernacular, etc. Isn’t that the end of it? Those who don’t like this style of Mass are free to attend a Mass where they are comfortable, although many of you have said that Mass isn’t about “being comfortable.”
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rlg94086
Guest
No, not really. To take an excerpt from one of your posts in another thread:
I changed the emphasis a little bit. Notice that the pipe organ “is,” whereas “other instruments *may.” *There is nothing wrong with people opining on whether certain other instruments can be “made suitable for sacred use.” Of course, it is still up to the Bishop to decide as the territorial authority, but that doesn’t mean we can’t voice our opinions.
You are also welcome to voice your opinion, and you have. No one is stopping you from worshipping at the church of your choice. No need to say ‘the Vatican says so , so there!’
(not meant to be a direct quote. 
)
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
Cat
What many people tend to misunderstand is that in some places there was not a gradual change with the teaching that went along with it. But a sudden ripping sound when things were torn down, music discarded and traditions no longer followed. In most of the parishes I do believe it was a gradual thing and it was accepted.
But, my experience was different from this expected norm. The alter rail was removed in one week, there was music I had only heard on the radio (folk music at that), the priest had the altar changed from one week to the next, the nuns went into street clothing (I was living in San Francisco at the time) and there was NO Latin from that day forward. I truly in my heart feel that those that made these sudden changes had the necessary “stuff” on the ready and never intended to look back.
Many of us (not all) were so shell shocked that we turned away from the church and some have never returned
even yet. Some have returned and some may never return.
I do not think this is what Vat II was meant to do. But, there were and are extremists in every “camp”. I only pray that this never happens again. The Pope is a wise man of God and has ways in place to see to it that this will not happen again.
God Bless
What many people tend to misunderstand is that in some places there was not a gradual change with the teaching that went along with it. But a sudden ripping sound when things were torn down, music discarded and traditions no longer followed. In most of the parishes I do believe it was a gradual thing and it was accepted.
But, my experience was different from this expected norm. The alter rail was removed in one week, there was music I had only heard on the radio (folk music at that), the priest had the altar changed from one week to the next, the nuns went into street clothing (I was living in San Francisco at the time) and there was NO Latin from that day forward. I truly in my heart feel that those that made these sudden changes had the necessary “stuff” on the ready and never intended to look back.
Many of us (not all) were so shell shocked that we turned away from the church and some have never returned
even yet. Some have returned and some may never return.I do not think this is what Vat II was meant to do. But, there were and are extremists in every “camp”. I only pray that this never happens again. The Pope is a wise man of God and has ways in place to see to it that this will not happen again.
God Bless
S
stringbeanduck
Guest
Yes and further more as we allow modern ways into the church it turns away members. Some people are turned away by this so much that they just don’t go to church any more. What is the point of losing tradition so we can get new members while others are turned away?
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agapewolf
Guest
I would have turned away if there was no contemporary music. That logic doesn’t work here.
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rlg94086
Guest
Would you still turn away if there was no contemporary music?
J
JFonseka
Guest
These threads strangely remind me of when Jesus accused Pharisees about their devotion to the “traditions” and less to the word of God.
It’s not always about “traditions”, some people don’t like ‘traditional music’ and they may not connect with the song easily and hence find it difficult to connect to God through that song.
It’s not always about “traditions”, some people don’t like ‘traditional music’ and they may not connect with the song easily and hence find it difficult to connect to God through that song.
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rlg94086
Guest
We don’t “connect to God” through song. We worship and praise with song. We connect to God through the Eucharist.
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Linnyo
Guest
i have never yet turned away from any church on account of the type of music but I may well change parish soon because I can’t bear the folk singing on a weekly basis.
A
agapewolf
Guest
Not now, no. It was because of the contemporary music that helped me take hold of my faith and learn it. It was because of the p/w music that I was able to begin to pray at mass.
Now that I understand it is the Eucharist, the source and summit, I would obey.
I think its interesting that it is mentioned that people that want traditional music are the ones turning away because of the fact. I’m sure there are in both camps, but all of my music ministry friends that do what I do are on board…100% with obedience.
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rlg94086
Guest
The people that turned away, did so after the Novus Ordo came into being. Their liturgical world was turned upside down. I hope many of them returned, but I know some didn’t. It is very sad. I hope some will return as the TLM is returned in areas where it has been withheld.
I am glad that you wouldn’t turn away if Lifeteen was removed, and that you learned the importance of the Eucharist.
J
JFonseka
Guest
You didn’t quite get me, let me demonstrate with this example.
You play a 14 year old Christian 2 religious pieces of music, one is a gregorian chant and the other is…say a punk song that is about God and it glorifies God…which one are they going to accept easily and actually pay attention to?
If the 14 year old is from the modern day, I’d bet that 99% of them would be for the punk song and not the gregorian chant. Some people find certain types of music boring, when you are bored you are less attentive and likely to get your mind wandering elsewhere.
It makes no sense to stick to ‘traditional songs’ when children from the modern day do not readily accept traditional songs, most would find gregorian chants boring, they are better off with their modern music.
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rlg94086
Guest
My son (16) and I both enjoy punk/alternative rock (my 13yo daughter, not so much), so that is a great example. We still go to Mass with gregorian chant. We have been to Lifeteen and folk-style Masses in the past, but we find them lacking.
I think it would be great to have such music in a teen fellowship group separate from Mass.
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