Book, Chapter and Verse

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Fidelis said:
I, personally, am getting tired of asking this question. Time after time people come in here and belligerently insist that Catholics prove a Catholic belief from the Bible alone. The Catholic reasonably asks them to provide clear biblical justification of using this non-biblical standard, and the response is predictably:
  • Silence
  • Anger
  • Giving a non-biblical answer (talk about hypocrisy!)
  • Changing the subject
  • Dismissing the question
  • Silence
If the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is such a foundational belief for Christians and appears “all through the Bible,” it should be a breeze to show two or three clear instances. But there hasn’t been any proof offered because none exists. And that’s a fact.
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I’m getting tired of answering it. Reading the Bible and common sense would answer this difficult issue for you. Please don’t accuse me of silence again. I have answered. As for anger, well I have a right to get angry when you all refuse what you’ve been told and keep asking the same old stupid question that a monkey could ask. I would think a real Christian would automatically go to Scripture for all answers to all matters regarding the faith, especially when the Bible (all throughout it) teaches that we should. And that’s a fact. Jack.
 
MrS said:
even though it was the Church which was given the promise of the guidance of the Holy Spirit…???
and
even though Scripture itself warns against private interpretation…?
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Don’t forget that we all make up the Church. Therefore the Holy Spirit helps us all. Do you think He abandoned us all and doesn’t care to work with us?

Scripture warns against private interpretation? Then why should I read it? I’d be better off to never read it and be spoonfed by the Church leaders. How could it warn against private interpretation and at the same time tell us to “search the Scriptures to see if these things be so”?
 
Searching and interpreting aren’t mutually inclusive. It’s says search not interpret
 
Randy_Carson said:
Hoosier-

You’ve posted almost 250 times in less than one week.

Could you please do everyone a favor and learn how to use the quote feature so that we can respond to you properly?
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To do this is actually very simple.
Put everything you are quoting inside two quote commands as follows:
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Simply highlight the part you wish to quote and then click, http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/editor/quote.gif and you’ll get the result you are looking for. Then just type in your response to the part you have quoted

{quote}this is what I’m quoting{/quote}
Got it?
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I always cut this last close quotes and then paste it at the end of the first section that I intend to quote so that the person I’m quoting’s name shows on their message.

You can also click http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/multiquote_off.gif down in the bottom left of several posts that you intend to respond to and it will give you each one in your post and you can respond accordingly.

You can experiment with these features here.
Hope that helps.
MF
 
scylla said:
Don’t worry hoosierdaddy I got your back.
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👍

Catholics share far much in common with Protestants like hoosierdaddy who love the Bible and respect its authority. Let’s try to look for the things we share in common before we fight about our differences.
 
The bible verse amoung many – but the glaring obvious one to me here is
2 Peter 3:16. now, twisting scripture can only be stopped by one thing and one thing only, and that would be Jesus Christ establishing a Church to insure its saftey.

Lets just start with 2 Peter 3:16 and go from there:

as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

this by the way is out of the NASB.

There are more scriptures that warn us of the peril of using Sola anything.
 
Thank you Michael. I will practice that.

Thank you too gardens, that is a good idea. It is good to talk about what we have in common as opposed to always arguing about our differences. God bless.
 
Damascus said:
The bible verse amoung many – but the glaring obvious one to me here is
2 Peter 3:16. now, twisting scripture can only be stopped by one thing and one thing only, and that would be Jesus Christ establishing a Church to insure its saftey.

Lets just start with 2 Peter 3:16 and go from there:

as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

this by the way is out of the NASB.

There are more scriptures that warn us of the peril of using Sola anything.
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Ok I’m listening. Though I do believe we are told to interpret Scripture ourselves, I can understand that the Church is here to protect us.

That being said though, how can I be sure the Catholic church would protect me when I’ve lived all these years thinking they will want to kill me if given the chance?
 
hoosierdaddy said:
Don’t forget that we all make up the Church. Therefore the Holy Spirit helps us all. Do you think He abandoned us all and doesn’t care to work with us?

Scripture warns against private interpretation? Then why should I read it? I’d be better off to never read it and be spoonfed by the Church leaders. How could it warn against private interpretation and at the same time tell us to “search the Scriptures to see if these things be so”?
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2 Peter 1:20

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by **the prophet’s **own interpretation. (NIV adds “the prophet’s”)

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (KJV)

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, (New American Standard)

Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, (New American Bible)
One passage that is never cited as a proof text for sola scriptura is 2 Peter 1:20-21. That’s hardly surprising. In this passage, Peter rejects the idea of private or individual interpretation: “no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” Then Peter warns: “But false prophets also arose among the [Jewish] people, just as there will be false teacher among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who brought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” (2 Peter 2:1) Note that under divine inspiration, Peter connects individual interpretation with heresies!

The Greek word that is translated as “heresies” comes from the verb haireomai, which means “to take or to choose for one’s self.” In the first century, it had the negative meaning of going off on one’s own in rebellion to the established teaching. Thus, in Acts 24:14, some translations render it as “sect”.

The statement in 2 Peter 1:20 is so strong in its opposition to the idea of sola scriptura that one Protestant translation attempts to subvert its meaning by inserting words that are not in the original. Thus, the New International Version (NIV) intentionally mistranslates “one’s own interpretation” with “by the prophet’s own interpretation.” However, tou prophetou is not found in the Greek text.
From www.scborromeo.org
 
hoosierdaddy said:
Don’t forget that we all make up the Church. Therefore the Holy Spirit helps us all. Do you think He abandoned us all and doesn’t care to work with us?

Scripture warns against private interpretation? Then why should I read it? I’d be better off to never read it and be spoonfed by the Church leaders. How could it warn against private interpretation and at the same time tell us to “search the Scriptures to see if these things be so”?
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! cor 12:12-13 reitirate this post
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by [a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
 
hoosierdaddy said:
Ok I’m listening. Though I do believe we are told to interpret Scripture ourselves, I can understand that the Church is here to protect us.

That being said though, how can I be sure the Catholic church would protect me when I’ve lived all these years thinking they will want to kill me if given the chance?
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I did too at one time, but I attribute that mostly to Hollywood movies and my Lutheran faith. Truth be told, there is no other Christian faith that fights for life like the Catholic Church does, but that is another thread LOL.😉

I will go on to cite Scripture if you dont mind? The Church is not only here to protect Scripture but it has never been invisible and there is no scripture to support an invisible Church. Ours is visible and always has been.

Would you like me to cite more Scripture?
 
! cor 12:12-13 reitirate this post
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by [a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Amen. 👍
 
myfavoritmartin said:
! cor 12:12-13 reitirate this post
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by [a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
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We agree with this scripture - there is only one Body of Christ. Sadly, many have separated themselves from that Body and from its Head.
 
**I did too at one time, but I attribute that mostly to Hollywood movies and my Lutheran faith. Truth be told, there is no other Christian faith that fights for life like the Catholic Church does, but that is another thread LOL.

I will go on to cite Scripture if you dont mind? The Church is not only here to protect Scripture but it has never been invisible and there is no scripture to support an invisible Church. Ours is visible and always has been.

Would you like me to cite more Scripture?**

Damascus, I would appreciate if you do. I gotta fly though; I will read it tomorrow.

It’s interesting you mention the invisible church though as myself being a Baptist, do believe this. I believe that the invisible church is all the Christians. The visible church is the mixture of Christians and unbelievers, the wheat with the tares.
 
hoosierdaddy said:
**I did too at one time, but I attribute that mostly to Hollywood movies and my Lutheran faith. Truth be told, there is no other Christian faith that fights for life like the Catholic Church does, but that is another thread LOL.

I will go on to cite Scripture if you dont mind? The Church is not only here to protect Scripture but it has never been invisible and there is no scripture to support an invisible Church. Ours is visible and always has been.

Would you like me to cite more Scripture?**

Damascus, I would appreciate if you do. I gotta fly though; I will read it tomorrow.

It’s interesting you mention the invisible church though as myself being a Baptist, do believe this. I believe that the invisible church is all the Christians. The visible church is the mixture of Christians and unbelievers, the wheat with the tares.
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I gotta fly too. No, I respectfully disagree with your idea of invisible Church so much so that I will have to post that tomorrow.

For now- meditate on this one:

Matt 12:25- your bible . It speaks clearly of division in the body, which you need to get clear on before you start thinking about invisible/visible-

its simple- think about it. there are only so many ways to see something

Invisible- cant see it.

I dont think that you can read into it in any other way.

Good Night- lets get into bible verses- not a problem.👍
 
hoosierdaddy said:
I’m getting tired of answering it. Reading the Bible and common sense would answer this difficult issue for you. Please don’t accuse me of silence again. I have answered. As for anger, well I have a right to get angry when you all refuse what you’ve been told and keep asking the same old stupid question that a monkey could ask. I would think a real Christian would automatically go to Scripture for all answers to all matters regarding the faith, especially when the Bible (all throughout it) teaches that we should. And that’s a fact. Jack.
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Gee, I never addressed you directly (in fact I was addressing an answer by someone else) Since you brought it up, however…Let’s see — from the list that would be:
  • Silence
  • Anger
  • Giving a non-biblical answer (talk about hypocrisy!)
  • Changing the subject
  • Dismissing the question
  • Silence
And, no, you have not shown this “monkey” where the Bible teaches Sola Scriptura. Just point me to the post or posts and I’ll never bother you again. I promise! 🙂
 
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