Book of all Marion Apparitions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jerusalem
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jerusalem

Guest
Does anyone know of a book covering all the Marion apparitions
up to the modern day?

This would include both approved & undecided apparitions.

I am looking to do more research into this.

God Bless
:cool:
 
There is a recent book by Dr. Kelly Bowring which tries to tie together all the different Marian prophecies. I have read it and actually did a six-week book study with him on it. While excellent in many respects, there are certain references which I found difficult to substantiate.

The book does have a Nihil Obstat by Msgr. Adelito A. Abella and an Imprimatur by Archbishop Ricardo Cardinal Vidal.

The name of the book is *“The Secrets, Chastisement, and Triumph of the Two Hearts of Jesus and Mary.” * I believe you can obtain it through Amazon.

If anyone has read it and would care to discuss, I’d be game!
 
There is a recent book by Dr. Kelly Bowring which tries to tie together all the different Marian prophecies…

If anyone has read it and would care to discuss, I’d be game!
Why did he go all the way to the Philippines to get an Imprimatur from a retired Cardinal?
Presumably similar with the Nihil Obstat.
Why didnt he go to his local bishop? He probably knew he wouldnt get what he wanted.
Hes not being totally honest. . If you look hard enough, youll eventually find someone willing to give the thumbs up to just about anything;*** like the Indian bishop who gave Vassula Rydens literature a Nihil Obstat.*** He had no authority to. ***A Philippines bishop gave Vassulas work an Imprimatur.*** Same thing.

Link to Catholics United For The Faith re Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur:
cuf.org//faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=268

The Chastisement? So he embraces Garabandal? Condemned by successive bishops.
If he accepts Medjugorje, and it seems that he does, hes promoting a phenomenon condemned by the current bishop and his immediate predecessor. What other condemned/questionable events does he rely on? Hes probably on a par with Ted Flynn.

It sounds like a dose of poison that`s best kept well clear of.

The “Director of Public Relations” at Two Hearts Press is Diana Bowring…
 
Why did he go all the way to the Philippines to get an Imprimatur from a retired Cardinal?
Presumably similar with the Nihil Obstat.
Why didnt he go to his local bishop? He probably knew he wouldnt get what he wanted.
Hes not being totally honest. . If you look hard enough, youll eventually find someone willing to give the thumbs up to just about anything;*** like the Indian bishop who gave Vassula Rydens literature a Nihil Obstat.*** He had no authority to. ***A Philippines bishop gave Vassulas work an Imprimatur.*** Same thing.

Link to Catholics United For The Faith re Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur:
cuf.org//faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=268

The Chastisement? So he embraces Garabandal? Condemned by successive bishops.
If he accepts Medjugorje, and it seems that he does, hes promoting a phenomenon condemned by the current bishop and his immediate predecessor. What other condemned/questionable events does he rely on? Hes probably on a par with Ted Flynn.

It sounds like a dose of poison that`s best kept well clear of.

The “Director of Public Relations” at Two Hearts Press is Diana Bowring…
Wow, that’s a lot of questions. I’ll answer as best I can:
  1. The OP had asked for a book that combined all the Marian Apparitions. This one does. I didn’t say I agreed with all Dr. Bowring’s findings. As a matter of fact, I was probably a thorn in his side as several times I found that the conclusions he’d drawn seemed to be a stretch given the references he’d cited and brought up my concerns in class.
  2. Mary speaks of a “Chastisement” in most Apparitions that I’m aware of – even Fatima. Garabandal gives more detail than most of the others. I was not aware that any bishop had condemned Garabandal as much as they had reserved judgment. Can you point me to any declaration which specifically condemns Garabandal? Dr. Bowring acknowledges that Medjugorje has been condemned by the local bishop, but gets around that by saying that the Vatican has taken over the investigation, giving the impression that the local bishop was in error. This was actually one of the things that first gave me pause. If I understand the Church’s teachings correctly, there is no wavering of the admonition that the local bishop alone has jurisdiction in such matters. I am no expert in such things, so put that issue aside. I don’t know what the actual investigation by the Vatican means.
  3. Dr. Bowring received his pontifical doctorate in sacred theology from St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome as well as the theological mandatum to teach theology. As such, I trust that he is well equipped to teach about such things, even though I may not concur with all his conclusions. (That’s why I’d love to participate in a book study of the book.) When he explained the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, he said that Cardinal Vidal was a renowned expert in Marian theology and that this is the only book ever published on Marian prophecy which has an Imprimatur.
  4. I have no idea who Ted Flynn is. Dr. Bowring taught theology at Ave Maria University in Michigan as well as southern Catholic College in Georgia, both schools being ultra orthodox. He’s also been teaching at Pinecrest Academy in Georgia, a private Catholic school run by the Legionaries of Christ.
So, in summary, I was only responding to the OP’s request for a book that brings together all the different Marian prophecies. Dr. Bowring does pull in many Marian prophecies that I’d never heard of – and some of which I couldn’t verify. Again, I’m not in agreement on some things but overall the theme he presents is solid Marian theology ---- pray pray and pray some more; turn your life back to God; etc.
 
Wow, that’s a lot of questions. I’ll answer as best I can:
  1. The OP had asked for a book that combined all the Marian Apparitions. ***This one does. ***
That can make a book dangerous. Unless an author stresses the difference between approved and unapproved/“pending” ones, he`s playing fast and loose. Quoting from condemned ones, including those condemned by the local bishops (eg Garabandal and Medjugorje), is playing with fire, and leading people astray.
I didn’t say I agreed with all Dr. Bowring’s findings. As a matter of fact, I was probably a thorn in his side as several times I found that the conclusions he’d drawn seemed to be a stretch given the references he’d cited and brought up my concerns in class.
The trouble is: the closer falsehood is to the truth, the more dangerous it is. It`s more difficult to see it for what it is.
  1. Mary speaks of a “Chastisement” in most Apparitions that I’m aware of – even Fatima. Garabandal gives more detail than most of the others. I was not aware that any bishop had condemned Garabandal as much as they had reserved judgment. Can you point me to any declaration which specifically condemns Garabandal?
Condemnation by successive Bishops is a good start. im willing to stand corrected on this, but: im pretty sure all of the alleged “visionaries” eventually distanced themselves from it. Can`t remember the source.

Googling would bring up something; but right now, im half blind from trying to type up whats already here! Hope you don`t go blind trying to decipher it!
Dr. Bowring acknowledges that Medjugorje has been condemned by the local bishop, but gets around that by saying that the Vatican has taken over the investigation, ***giving the impression that the local bishop was in ***error.
***Thats a blatant lie!!! Its vilification of the Bishop and his predecessor.
*** And if his qualifications are what he claims, he`d know it.
This was actually one of the things that first gave me pause. If I understand the Church’s teachings correctly, there is no wavering of the admonition that the local bishop alone has jurisdiction in such matters. I am no expert in such things, so put that issue aside. I don’t know what the actual investigation by the Vatican means.
As one writer put it: an alleged supernatural phenomenon cant be given approval while its continuing, ***BUT it can be CONDEMNED while its continuing:*** ie the most its promotors can hope for from this Commission is an open mind, and certainly not condemnation of the two bishops. Medjugorje is more than just a Diocesan problem; its worldwide. Hence Romes involvement. Otherwise, it would have been left to the Bishops. Theres more than a bit of evidence to suggest that the present Pope is not favourable towards it. Remember, too, that Fr. Tomislav Vlasic is now Mr. Tomislav Vlasic, and that Fr. Jozo Zovko was forced “into exile”… because of his continuing blatant disobedience.

Medjugorje is full of lies and deception. The “visionaries” and their close associates are part of it. If nothing else, they`re guilty of gross disobedience…defying the bishop.

By the way: i used to be 90+% in favour of it.
Dr. Bowring received his pontifical doctorate…
Qualifications don`t guarantee level-headedness and orthodoxy. The Church is full of loons (and dissenters) who have impressive qualifications from impressive Institutions: eg Fr. H Kung (Shudder!).
He said that Cardinal Vidal was a renowned expert in Marian theology…
So is Fr. Rene Laurentin, and hes been more than a bit dishonest with some of the facts surrounding Medjugorje. Cardinal Vidal may well have been misled by Fr. Laurentin......and others. The Cardinal may also be biased: Cardinal Schonborns activities re Medjugorje show that a Cardinal can be well-meaning, but still make a mistake…
…and that this is the only book ever published on Marian prophecy which has an Imprimatur.
Big deal! (aimed at Dr. Bowring, not at you).
Did you go to the CUF article about the meaning of Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat? They`e not as awesome as some people would like us to believe.
  1. I have no idea who Ted Flynn is. Dr. Bowring taught theology at Ave Maria University in Michigan as well as southern Catholic College in Georgia, both schools being ultra orthodox. He’s also been teaching at Pinecrest Academy in Georgia, a private Catholic school run by the Legionaries of Christ.
Ted Flynns a blood n` guts apocalyptic “End Times” author.

What he formally teaches, and what he believes privately, and propagates in his books may be far apart.
So, in summary, I was only responding to the OP’s request for a book that brings together all the different Marian prophecies. Dr. Bowring does pull in many Marian prophecies that I’d never heard of – and some of which I couldn’t verify. Again, I’m not in agreement on some things but overall the theme he presents is solid Marian theology ---- pray pray and pray some more; turn your life back to God; etc.
They all say that! On its own, it doesn`t mean much.

The preoccupation with “prophecies” can become unhealthy… and downright dangerous to the soul.
 
I want to clarify that by “all” the Marian apparitions, the book does not include those that have been clearly condemned – the woman in New York is one that comes to mind. He does mention visionaries I’ve never heard of, so I strongly urge you, Sunna, to get the book, read it and then take up your issues with whomever you feel is appropriate.

As for me, I have read it and stated clearly that there are some things I disagree with. I addressed my issues with Dr. Bowring personally and in follow-up email conversations.

That being said, there are clearly examples of a bishop condeming a visionary’s message that were subsequently given approval. St. Faustina and her message of Divine Mercy comes to mind. As I said, to the best of my knowledge (and I have looked) there has been no bishop who has condemned Garabandal. Each bishop has simply said they have reserved approval since the prophecies concern future events. Again, I ask you to provide evidence of condemnation rather than proclaiming it as fact, saying your eyes are too tired to seek such information.

It seems to me that you have an overall disdain for Marian prophecy, as evidence by your comment “They all say that! On its own, it doesn`t mean much.The preoccupation with ‘prophecies’ can become unhealthy… and downright dangerous to the soul.”

Nobody here seems to be preoccupied with Marian prophecy. Anything can become unhealthy without prudence. Many thousands of people have converted to Catholicism over the centuries based on messages provided by visionaries.

I shared my experience with the expectation that anyone who wants to read the book can draw their own conclusions. You’re free to do the same, but please don’t throw out condemnation based on the meager offerings I’ve provided.
 
…He does mention visionaries I’ve never heard of, so I strongly urge you, Sunna, to get the book, read it and then take up your issues with whomever you feel is appropriate…
im no more likely to read that book than you are to read "Understanding Medjugorje" by Donal Foley, and published by Theotokos Press (his own outfit?). Its critical of Medjugorje, and also of Garabandal, which it mentions in passing.
Theres enough on the Internet to turn me off Dr. Bowrings book.
…That being said, there are clearly examples of a bishop condeming a visionary’s message that were subsequently given approval. St. Faustina and her message of Divine Mercy comes to mind.
Part of the problem was a bad translation; and there was no disobedience associated with Saint Faustina`s Messages.
As I said, to the best of my knowledge (and I have looked) there has been no bishop who has condemned Garabandal. Each bishop has simply said they have reserved approval since the prophecies concern future events. Again, I ask you to provide evidence of condemnation rather than proclaiming it as fact…
Here`s one, for a start:
catholic.com/newsletters/kke_030729.asp

Karl Keatings not infallible, but hes not silly; and there are other sites which say the same thing.
…saying your eyes are too tired to seek such information.
Some people may be quick witted, and able to knock out a reply in a few minutes.
The sad truth is that im not; and it ***DID*** take hours to make up that last reply; and my eyes ***WERE*** sore from staring at a wretched screen. As they are now! Your comment is offensive! You say you looked; but you cant have looked too hard. The conflicting claims about whether it was or wasn`t condemned outright should make you cautious.

Another link:
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7724&CFID=51499710&CFTOKEN=19810954
It seems to me that you have an overall disdain for Marian prophecy, as evidence by your comment “They all say that! On its own, it doesn`t mean much.The preoccupation with ‘prophecies’ can become unhealthy… and downright dangerous to the soul.”
You didnt pick up on the word "prophecies" being placed in inverted commas: it was done that way to separate it from ***Church-approved ***Marian (or any other) prophecies.
…Many thousands of people have converted to Catholicism over the centuries based on messages provided by visionaries.
As long as they`re trustworthy!
I shared my experience with the expectation that anyone who wants to read the book can draw their own conclusions. You’re free to do the same, but please don’t throw out condemnation based on the meager offerings I’ve provided.
Again: try some Googling.
Theres a lot more than just the "meagre offerings" youve provided.
You seem determined to believe in Garabandal (and Medjugorje?): no matter what.

Lets give up on it......were way off topic.
 
Be careful with that website. It lists Garabandal as Not Supernatural, which is inaccurate, since to the casual observer not familiar with apparitions this sounds like it is a fake or false apparition.

But EWTN says Garabandal is actually a category 3 apparition, which is defined on

ewtn.com/expert/answers/apparitions.htm

under Types of Decisions as :

3. Non constat de supernaturalitate. Finally, it may not be evident whether or not the alleged apparition is authentic. This judgment would seem to be completely open to further evidence or development.

This means, in plain English, that while it is NOT YET established as a fact that it is supernatural, it indeed might be supernatural; it is not evident whether or not it is, so this is a neutral decision open to further evidence that might come as time goes by.

Since it might be supernatural it is false to claim it is NOT SUPERNATURAL as that website does.

The words Not Supernatural do not adequately summarize category 3. No Decision actually more accurately summarizes category 3.

The other two categories are:
  • *1. Constat de supernaturalitate. An apparition judged supernatural (formerly called worthy of belief) has manifested signs or evidence of being an authentic or truly miraculous intervention from heaven. This judgment is possible when there is evidence of supernatural phenomena, sound doctrine, moral probity, mental health and sound piety of the seer(s) and enduring good fruits among the faithful.
The issue of supernaturality is one that deserves to be explored more fully. According to the common teaching of the Church, most extraordinary phenomena in the mystical order (visions, apparitions, locutions, ecstasies, mystical knowledge etc.) are caused by angels acting on God’s behalf. Whether the burning bush which Moses saw, the ecstatic flights of St. Joseph Cupertino, the stigmata of St. Francis or the revelations of St. Catherine, the general rule in the spiritual order is that God does not do immediately and directly what can be done mediately through a lower order nature, in this case the good angels. The presence of such phenomenon is not, therefore, unequivocal evidence of supernaturality. Each of the approved apparitions have had such clear signs, from the instantaneous and inexplicable cures at Lourdes to the natural prodigy of October 13th 1917 in Fátima, but also the other marks of authenticity mentioned above.
  • **2. Constat de non supernaturalitate. **The judgment that an alleged apparition has been shown to be not supernatural means it is either clearly not miraculous or lacks sufficient signs of the miraculous. Private revelation, for example, which is doctrinally dangerous or which manifests hostility to lawful authority could not come from God. It could even be demonic, especially if there are extraordinary signs accompanying it. The devil gladly mingles truth and lie to deceive the faithful, dazzling them with signs and wonders to give credence to his message. His purpose is to separate them from the Church, either by getting them to believe things contrary to the deposit of the faith or to act contemptuously of Church authority. An attitude of pride and judgment toward the Church is a clear sign of his presence. An alleged revelation may also only be a pious rambling, consistent with faith and morals, but lacking evidence of being anything more than the product of human effort. No fraud need be intended, only an active imagination. Finally, it may be that the doctrine may be sound and there may be phenomena, but insufficient to demonstrate supernaturality. In this latter case, there would seem to be a possibility of revision. *
One can see that NOT SUPERNATURAL actually accurately summarizes category 2, which is a negative decision.

So be wary of that website; it is misleading on Garabandal for sure.
 
There is a recent book by Dr. Kelly Bowring which tries to tie together all the different Marian prophecies. I have read it and actually did a six-week book study with him on it. While excellent in many respects, there are certain references which I found difficult to substantiate.

The book does have a Nihil Obstat by Msgr. Adelito A. Abella and an Imprimatur by Archbishop Ricardo Cardinal Vidal.

The name of the book is *“The Secrets, Chastisement, and Triumph of the Two Hearts of Jesus and Mary.” * I believe you can obtain it through Amazon.

If anyone has read it and would care to discuss, I’d be game!
The Secrets, Chastisement, and Triumph etc is a very bad book. Please see the following address www.allianceofthetwohearts.info
 
Does anyone know of a book covering all the Marion apparitions
up to the modern day?

This would include both approved & undecided apparitions.

I am looking to do more research into this.

God Bless
:cool:
sounds like you are looking for this book

THE WOMAN SHALL CONQUER
BY DON SHARKEY

i have it and its really really good!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top