Book of Daniel and Revelation

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It is the Roman empire! Daniel has been fulfilled for nearly 2,000 years. They will probably try and place the second half of the vision in the future. (Putting a 2,000 year gap between the appearance of the fourth beast and the mention of it’s ten horns.

Daniel specifically informs us that only four kingdoms are involved (Dan 7:17). The text doesn’t support the fourth kingdom being “reconstituted” after 2,000 years and still being the same kingdom.
I believe that it is written that He will dash them to pieces like pottery.

Also, there are four Major Empires that will arise on earth is what is in Daniel.

The third Empire is longer and has 4 heads on it, which constitutes 4 ‘different’ type Empire rulerships that are on the Leopard (Roman Empire) which is in Revelation.

The coming time of the Leopard (the Roman Empire) with lions mouth (kingly like Alexander the great) and bear feet (Seleucid) fulfillment to come in to where The Dragon or John was standing between the seas and the coming of the beast from the earth false prophet who performs miraculous signs and forces the peoples on earth to receive the mark of the number of his name in covenant along with 10 worldwide leaders will result in war on the saints and believers in God in every nation, people, and language all over the earth as written. Many of the saints will be conquered and put to death as written.

This calls for patient endurance and faithfullness

The last episode is written in Revelation whereby the Woman Eve was given the wings of an eagle to fly to safety following the Dragon’s war over the earth for Her and Her offspring as in world war II times of hitler and stalin as Prophesied in Nostradamus.
 
What i asked them was about the fish and the 5 loaves miracle. They did however admit that not all SDAs are vegetarians. some just avoid pork and seafoods.
Even that doesn’t seem to make much sense in the light of the passages referenced.

Gary
 
Actually, our non-denominational friend revealed to us (Catholics) the reason why we are studying the book of Daniel is because he wants to confront the SDAs about their belief more than our belief - specifically on Chap 12. It turns out that the SDAs believe that Michael the archangel and Jesus are the same. However, they said that they also believe that Jesus is not a created being and that He is God. This is going to be interesting.
That’s one of those things that I have gotten different answers from different SDAs about. One believed it while the other had never heard about it. The doctrine says that, before His incarnation, Jesus was Michael the Archangel. Jehovah’s Witnesses also believe this although they reject the divinity of Jesus. That they would believe the same is not to hard to believe. Both groups sprang from the Millerite movement of the mid-19th century.

Gary
 
That’s one of those things that I have gotten different answers from different SDAs about. One believed it while the other had never heard about it. The doctrine says that, before His incarnation, Jesus was Michael the Archangel. Jehovah’s Witnesses also believe this although they reject the divinity of Jesus. That they would believe the same is not to hard to believe. Both groups sprang from the Millerite movement of the mid-19th century.

Gary
Surely, though, as The Bright and Shining Morning Star, Jesus was the First born over all of creation and then was The Lord’s Armory for the Angels as well. For through Him and for Him and by Him all things were made that were made and nothing was made that was made without Him; The Right Hand of God and The Power of God.

Jesus appeared following His Resurrection to the Disciples and was not outwardly recognized for the OmniPresent God could shape shift His Appearance so that Judas could only identify Him to fulfill the Prophecy written. Surely, Jesus is That Morning Star as written for these Angels belong to Him.

For 40 days, Jesus appeared all over the earth is written. The Toltecs passed this Prophecy to the Aztecs who still had it when Cortez arrived and sank the Nina (The Son), the pinta (the lady horse) and the Santa Maria (The Virgin fulfillment of Miriam in the law of Moses called Mary).

The seventh days and the Mormons and Scientology and the Jehovah’s witness are Mason offshoot ‘brands’ to ‘compete’ with the Catholic Church. Though the authenticity of whether the actual of Prophecy was conferred is highly doubtful, anyone that causes one of these small ones should tie a rock to their neck and sink into the sea in the Devil’s Dominion is written.

This sect was hoping, of course, to gain control centers in the Religious arena.
 
Also, feel free to run any questions by me. I’m a former Adventist, turned Catholic. 🙂
Good to hear that. Now i know who to ask for advice. My SDA friends are really good and God fearing people. They are gentle, meek and mild. Actually, they can really be good Catholics. 🙂

I hope you don’t mind, but what made you convert (aside from the guidance of the Holy Spirit)? I am asking you this because i want to help my friends see the fullness of truth.
 
Personally, I prefer the Revised Standard Version-Catholic Edition (RSV-CE) that Ignatius Press publishes. Many here also like the Douay-Rheims translation. The NAB is a decent enough translation, it’s just the footnotes and introductions that you have to watch out for.
My aunt, a Dominican nun, said that they use the Jerusalem bible. Anyone else using this?
 
My aunt, a Dominican nun, said that they use the Jerusalem bible. Anyone else using this?
I use the New Jerusalem Bible but not the original. With the exception of the USA, Canada and the Caribbean, the Jerusalem Bible is the translation used in the Mass in English-speaking countries.

Gary
 
I believe that it is written that He will dash them to pieces like pottery.

Also, there are four Major Empires that will arise on earth is what is in Daniel.
lion= Babylon
bear= Medo-Persia
leopard=Macdonia
fourth=Rome
The third Empire is longer and has 4 heads on it, which constitutes 4 ‘different’ type Empire rulerships that are on the Leopard (Roman Empire) which is in Revelation. The coming time of the Leopard (the Roman Empire) with lions mouth (kingly like Alexander the great) and bear feet (Seleucid) fulfillment to come in to where The Dragon or John was standing between the seas and the coming of the beast from the earth false prophet who performs miraculous signs and forces the peoples on earth to receive the mark of the number of his name in covenant along with 10 worldwide leaders will result in war on the saints and believers in God in every nation, people, and language all over the earth as written. Many of the saints will be conquered and put to death as written.
This calls for patient endurance and faithfullness
The last episode is written in Revelation whereby the Woman Eve was given the wings of an eagle to fly to safety following the Dragon’s war over the earth for Her and Her offspring as in world war II times of hitler and stalin as Prophesied in Nostradamus.
Sea beast=Rome
10 horns= 10 Roman provinces
seven heads= Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius I, Nero, and Vespasian (ruled when the Temple was destroyed).
 
lion= Babylon
bear= Medo-Persia
leopard=Macdonia
fourth=Rome

Sea beast=Rome
10 horns= 10 Roman provinces
seven heads= Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius I, Nero, and Vespasian (ruled when the Temple was destroyed).
LOL!

What, then, is the meaning of the beast from the earth in your ‘gap’ theory?

The end of it (the spiritual struggle or war) will be as a flood. Some of the wise will fall to be refined in the buying of the gold in keeping with repentance. Surely, the good people are looking anxiously for The Good leader Messiah to come into His Kingdom in the Millennium Reign as well.

These 10 rulers are written to devour the whole earth, not only one major Empire, and it is known that the provinces of China were extant in this time period; and that the borders of Rome did not even include all of Nubia, Arabia, and Russia, and also India or Persia.

For Alexander did not go across the mountains but fell in accordance with the Prophecy of the lion conquerer given wings like an eagle.

How, then, can one take warning and prepare for the war to come with the believers Eve and all of Her children if one does not believe the Prophets?

Revelation and Nostradamus tell us that hitler and stalin would come to try to conquer before. These will come to pass soon as well.
 
LOL!

What, then, is the meaning of the beast from the earth in your ‘gap’ theory?

The end of it (the spiritual struggle or war) will be as a flood. Some of the wise will fall to be refined in the buying of the gold in keeping with repentance. Surely, the good people are looking anxiously for The Good leader Messiah to come into His Kingdom in the Millennium Reign as well.

These 10 rulers are written to devour the whole earth, not only one major Empire, and it is known that the provinces of China were extant in this time period; and that the borders of Rome did not even include all of Nubia, Arabia, and Russia, and also India or Persia.

For Alexander did not go across the mountains but fell in accordance with the Prophecy of the lion conquerer given wings like an eagle.

How, then, can one take warning and prepare for the war to come with the believers Eve and all of Her children if one does not believe the Prophets?

Revelation and Nostradamus tell us that hitler and stalin would come to try to conquer before. These will come to pass soon as well.
Oh yeah- If Nostradamus said- It Gotta be so!:D:shrug:
 
LOL!

What, then, is the meaning of the beast from the earth in your ‘gap’ theory?
What do you mean by ‘gap’ theory?

The earth in 13:11 is better translated as “land” which was always symbolic of God’s people in the OT. This beast is a symbol of the Sanhedrin, who provided theological “cover” for the political machine of the Roman sea-beast. This false prophet imitated the greatest of the OT prophets, but it’s main strategy was deceit. Not only did they lead Jerusalem in revolt against their Messiah, but during the Jewish-Roman war, their false prophets said they should wait for deliverance from God behind the walls.

Rome gave the Sanhedrin authority. Nero, used the provincial government to enforce emperor worship, and the Sanhedrin’s cooperation with Roman idolatry made them enemies to the outlaw Jewish Zealots (who thought the Sanhedrin and priesthood in Jerusalem were blaspheming the Law of Moses by cooperating with the Roman religion).

The Jewish leadership had to compromise to survive, by performing daily sacrifices in the Temple, but the CHristian Church refused to participate in idol worship. This made the Christians traitors to Rome and they were hunted down and killed by Rome. The Sanhedrin encouraged and cooperated with Rome because Christians were teaching that the Temple worship was obsolete and that divisions between Jews and Gentiles had been superceded by Christ’s atonement (which was the mystery of the scroll that was unsealed in the initial vision). Jerusalem actually instigated the Roman persecution of Christians, but everything changed in 66 A.D. when they rebelled against Rome, and at that point the Roman Empire turned its wrath on them.

This image of the beast resembles the image Nebuchandnezzar built after his dream in Daniel (for good reason). Three Hebrews were thrown into the fiery furnace because they would not worship the king’s gods. St. John was reminding his Christian readers how the faithful Hebrews were spared death by the intervention of God, but they had clearly demonstrated their willingness to die rather than engage in idolotry.
The end of it (the spiritual struggle or war) will be as a flood. Some of the wise will fall to be refined in the buying of the gold in keeping with repentance. Surely, the good people are looking anxiously for The Good leader Messiah to come into His Kingdom in the Millennium Reign as well.
These 10 rulers are written to devour the whole earth, not only one major Empire, and it is known that the provinces of China were extant in this time period; and that the borders of Rome did not even include all of Nubia, Arabia, and Russia, and also India or Persia.
For Alexander did not go across the mountains but fell in accordance with the Prophecy of the lion conquerer given wings like an eagle.
How, then, can one take warning and prepare for the war to come with the believers Eve and all of Her children if one does not believe the Prophets?
For all intents and purposes it was the known world. The Greek empire fell to the Roman Empire, and the western empire (at least) has been gone for over 1500 years. (Eastern over 500 years ago). But like I said earlier, the land has always been the promised land in Apocalyptic literature.

Christ’s application of Daniel and the book of Revelation describe first century events. This is the original intent and fulfillment of events. We look to a second future fulfillment of these events which I don’t have a problem with. What I do have a problem with is, when people put a ‘gap’ in the coming of the kingdom. The kingdom was at hand and came during Christ’s first advent. We will see it in all it’s glory at the end of time.
 
Hey folks! Just want to revive this thread. Our SDA brethren finally “spilled the beans”. We are in Daniel chapter 7 last night and they finally revealed their belief that the little horn that sprang out of the 10 horns is the Catholic church. I already knew it was coming that is why i wasn’t really suprised by this “revelation” but some of my Catholic friends got offended. Is there a good book i can read to straighten their twisted belief?
 
Hey folks! Just want to revive this thread. Our SDA brethren finally “spilled the beans”. We are in Daniel chapter 7 last night and they finally revealed their belief that the little horn that sprang out of the 10 horns is the Catholic church. I already knew it was coming that is why i wasn’t really suprised by this “revelation” but some of my Catholic friends got offended. Is there a good book i can read to straighten their twisted belief?
I am not sure if I had already given this link, but here are some commentaries from the Church Fathers on Daniel. litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/The+Prophets

Here is portions of Chapter 7 from Theodoret of Cyrus, whom I hold in high regard.
books.google.com/books?id=KzyDvbSnLtsC&dq=theodoret+daniel+commentary&pg=PP1&ots=g5cjaAn6oU&sig=Wx5Yx5ZTA7x_g2kWho83j03sUiI&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=theodoret+daniel+commentary&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPA175,M1

I can also scan you some pages if you like, I have his commentary here at home and I also have the Ancient Christian Commentary on Daniel if you would like some excerpts. Plus, the link I gave also has St. Jerome’s complete commentary on Daniel which is very good!
 
I can also scan you some pages if you like, I have his commentary here at home and I also have the Ancient Christian Commentary on Daniel if you would like some excerpts.
I would really appreciate that! Please do so, so i can peruse the documents you have and be more prepared on our next meeting.

God bless!!! 🙂
 
I would really appreciate that! Please do so, so i can peruse the documents you have and be more prepared on our next meeting.

God bless!!! 🙂
No problem. List what passages that you are interested in and I’ll try to provide you with some good stuff.
 
No problem. List what passages that you are interested in and I’ll try to provide you with some good stuff.
It’s basically the whole of chapter 7 and a good explanation of the 4 beasts. Looking forward for it. Many blessings!
 
I was reading through this site but pages 184 and 185 are missing. I believe this is the part where it is explaining what the little horn represents. 😦

Thanks again.
 
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