Book of Daniel

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Honestly what is written in Daniel is a mystery and it is a far stretch to start connecting the dots to say this is this country and we’re living in this time etc. Maybe somewhere in the stories in the OT there is a lesson to be learned, but they loose their meanings when they are made to be something their not.
Yes, that’s the point John Paul Jones - and I think, if I’m not mistaken, you’ve overtly stepped over a few steps in your posts. Again, and I’ll repeat, considering that there were at least two people who picked up on the country, religion or church - that had been insinuated here, it wasn’t Germany. Next time, when you reply - make sure that it’s because of your religious background that your defending.

I’ll stay with my original remark:
Yes, I know what you mean - even when it came to Rome (back when) as you couldn’t compare with the Roman of today - even though Rome (back then) had engulf much of the empires - when speaking or writing about it. Also, the same similarities have been written and said, and forgive me, about biblical theology from the O.T (Jewish - Israelites) of what was then and what “is” today. Although, most people, would assume the latter…in context with the sentence writing and what it was referring too.
 
and isaiah, zechariah, psalms…not just daniel.👍


Originally Posted by John Paul Jones View Post
Coptic Christian: (Catholic) I usually don’t like it, and I don’t think anyone would, to be returned a post like this one after replying back to some of your questionable posts - especially when the bottom line to every post that I wrote, and even giving scriptural points to it and with the nicer reply back, was with the “Idea” that it would be pretty difficult - to understand who these nations are:
Although it maybe good to understand both the O.T as well as to compare it with the N.T, and also while I think scriptural understanding is so important, it is rather frustrating/and defeating not to have the tools (spiritual) inside to be able to overcome some of issues that we’re facing in today’s society - or for us to understand of which kingdoms/nations will arise and fall, but (again) how can some prepare for what lays in the forefront-
The main thought (to half these posts) is that without faith - how could one survive. Jesus tells us in Luke 17: Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
The answer was given several posts - away, however, dragging this into the mud wasn’t/ and shouldn’t be listed nor addressed personally to me, John Paul Jones. And another thing, have you ever heard of the last name of Snyder: German heritage but with a nice French - background (Leisure - in marriage), I call that pretty Huguenot, with 13 kids in the family. The family is on my dad’s mother side - I found a very beautiful picture of my gr-grandmother on her wedding day (the daughter) - with her husband, Arthur, from Edinburgh, Scotland.

I usually like my kolanche made from German sweet bread, and love (love) my German white wine - at Christmas, there is a Czech Christmas Hoska that I buy from Gerta’s but you have to get up early (early) in the morning before everyone gets their, or your out of luck. I like to eat (when I can) at Old Vienna - and the chef is in the back of the kitchen cooking breaded dumplings…the restaurant is set up as if you just stepped into old Europe.

Also, Pope Benedict - happens to be my favorite pope, although I understand he will be retiring - from what I understand. According to Italian daily newspaper “Libero”, Pope Benedict XVI is thinking about leaving the papacy next April, when he will turn 85

Adrea Tornielli
Vatican City

There is one front page news story that will certainly not go unnoticed: that is, that the Pope is thinking about resigning during the Spring of 2012. Journalist Antonio Socci has confirmed the same in the Italian daily, Libero.
originally posted by explosiveoxygen view post
the book of daniel gives prophecy.
Okay simple…
**Does the roman catholic church have any advice on what it means?
Which nations are the beasts? Which nation is the little horn?
I have come upon other denominations giving examples that just don’t seem to make sense because they divide rather than unite.
I used google but i can’t seem to find the answer.
**
Specifically daniel 2 and 7
thank you!
quote:
Originally posted by explosiveoxygen view post
i’m having trouble finding any answers to this. The best i can find is that those writing hateful and divisive things are liars and scammers, but ad hominem does not defeat the argument.
 
Coptic Christian: (Catholic) I usually don’t like it, and I don’t think anyone would, to be returned a post like this one after replying back to some of your questionable posts - especially when the bottom line to every post that I wrote, and even giving scriptural points to it and with the nicer reply back, was with the “Idea” that it would be pretty difficult - to understand who these nations are:

The answer was given several posts - away, however, dragging this into the mud wasn’t/ and shouldn’t be listed nor addressed personally to me, John Paul Jones. And another thing, have you ever heard of the last name of Snyder: German heritage but with a nice French - background (Leisure - in marriage), I call that pretty Huguenot, with 13 kids in the family. The family is on my dad’s mother side - I found a very beautiful picture of my gr-grandmother on her wedding day (the daughter) - with her husband, Arthur, from Edinburgh, Scotland.

I usually like my kolanche made from German sweet bread, and love (love) my German white wine - at Christmas, there is a Czech Christmas Hoska that I buy from Gerta’s but you have to get up early (early) in the morning before everyone gets their, or your out of luck. I like to eat (when I can) at Old Vienna - and the chef is in the back of the kitchen cooking breaded dumplings…the restaurant is set up as if you just stepped into old Europe.

Also, Pope Benedict - happens to be my favorite pope, although I understand he will be retiring - from what I understand. According to Italian daily newspaper “Libero”, Pope Benedict XVI is thinking about leaving the papacy next April, when he will turn 85

Adrea Tornielli
Vatican City

There is one front page news story that will certainly not go unnoticed: that is, that the Pope is thinking about resigning during the Spring of 2012. Journalist Antonio Socci has confirmed the same in the Italian daily, Libero.
You appear to be frustrated. Trying to study and explain Prophecy can do that.🙂
 
You appear to be frustrated. Trying to study and explain Prophecy can do that.🙂
Better frustrated - than to Appear to be totally confused, and totally lost in the conversation? Appear? 🤓 Did you enunciate each syllable of each word? - I’ll repeat the LLastttt poooost fooor youuuu, oookkkk?
Although it maybe good to understand both the O.T as well as to compare it with the N.T, and also while I think scriptural understanding is so important, it is rather frustrating/and defeating not to have the tools (spiritual) inside to be able to overcome some of issues that we’re facing in today’s society - or for us to understand of which kingdoms/nations will arise and fall, but (again) how can some prepare for what lays in the forefront-
The main thought (to half these posts) is that without faith - how could one survive. Jesus tells us in Luke 17: Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
IIIIIssss thaaatt beeettteerrr fooorrr youuu? I don’t think its a frustration with scripture or the study of scripture. Also, Christians shouldn’t have to be made to be frustrated with God’s word. Wow, how very sad! Also,I never explained the passage, may be you need your glasses checked/or hearing - as the post didn’t appear well with you. 🍿

Psalm 34:9 “ta‘amu u-re’u ki tov Hashem, taste and see that God is good.” Ta’am - Taste, flavor; good taste, “He gave them bread from heaven to eat.” and “ta’am” can also mean: “taste” or “sense”… John 6:31-33,“For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”…the taste is not of bitterness, maybe perhaps our sins are the bitterness and the honey is the redemption - as the forgiveness of God is sweet. As in God’s Mercy and Compassion is Good to the Taste!

Unfortunately, there are some within the same faith who “think” that they cause people to become frustrated and give up, and I wasn’t hoping to see this on a religious posting thread.

The Ramban tells us that the two Tochachas are reflective of the two destructions that befell the Jewish nation. The Tochacha in Vayikra (Bechukosai) foretells** the destruction of the First Temple**; the Tochacha in Devorim (here in Ki Savo) foretells the destruction of the Second Temple. The destruction of the First Temple came with a pre-determined, pre-announced limit: seventy years you will be in Exile, and then the Exile will be over. There was some ambiguity as to when the counting of the 70 years began, but they knew without a doubt that the Exile had a finite end point.

All within Daniel:

And then G-d promises us that He will live with us: “And I will place my Mishkan in your midst…” [Vayikra 26:11] (This is a blessing, that unfortunately, after 2000 years of not having a Beis HaMikdash, we cannot even contemplate; but it is a tremendous blessing to be able to feel G-d’s holiness in our midst.) But that same verse which begins by speaking of G-d placing His Mishkan in our midst ends with the words “…and I will not detest you” (v’lo sig-al nafshi eschem).

“Read” - Daniel 9:24-26

Then Peter approaching asked him, “Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus answered, “I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times which is inspired on Genesis 4:24 and Seventy-seven times, the Greek corresponds exactly to the LXX or Genesis 14:15 Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.” The comparative to the wording in other verses, Seven seventies = seventy sevens.

which is a theme of this NT! The 77 Generations from Adam to Jesus mentioned by Luke seem to hint at this!

👍 :eek:
 
Better frustrated - than to Appear to be totally confused, and totally lost in the conversation? Appear? 🤓 Did you enunciate each syllable of each word? - I’ll repeat the LLastttt poooost fooor youuuu, oookkkk?

IIIIIssss thaaatt beeettteerrr fooorrr youuu? I don’t think its a frustration with scripture or the study of scripture. Also, Christians shouldn’t have to be made to be frustrated with God’s word. Wow, how very sad! Also,I never explained the passage, may be you need your glasses checked/or hearing - as the post didn’t appear well with you. 🍿

Psalm 34:9 “ta‘amu u-re’u ki tov Hashem, taste and see that God is good.” Ta’am - Taste, flavor; good taste, “He gave them bread from heaven to eat.” and “ta’am” can also mean: “taste” or “sense”… John 6:31-33,“For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”…the taste is not of bitterness, maybe perhaps our sins are the bitterness and the honey is the redemption - as the forgiveness of God is sweet. As in God’s Mercy and Compassion is Good to the Taste!

Unfortunately, there are some within the same faith who “think” that they cause people to become frustrated and give up, and I wasn’t hoping to see this on a religious posting thread.

The Ramban tells us that the two Tochachas are reflective of the two destructions that befell the Jewish nation. The Tochacha in Vayikra (Bechukosai) foretells** the destruction of the First Temple**; the Tochacha in Devorim (here in Ki Savo) foretells the destruction of the Second Temple. The destruction of the First Temple came with a pre-determined, pre-announced limit: seventy years you will be in Exile, and then the Exile will be over. There was some ambiguity as to when the counting of the 70 years began, but they knew without a doubt that the Exile had a finite end point.

All within Daniel:

And then G-d promises us that He will live with us: “And I will place my Mishkan in your midst…” [Vayikra 26:11] (This is a blessing, that unfortunately, after 2000 years of not having a Beis HaMikdash, we cannot even contemplate; but it is a tremendous blessing to be able to feel G-d’s holiness in our midst.) But that same verse which begins by speaking of G-d placing His Mishkan in our midst ends with the words “…and I will not detest you” (v’lo sig-al nafshi eschem).

“Read” - Daniel 9:24-26

Then Peter approaching asked him, “Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus answered, “I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times which is inspired on Genesis 4:24 and Seventy-seven times, the Greek corresponds exactly to the LXX or Genesis 14:15 Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.” The comparative to the wording in other verses, Seven seventies = seventy sevens.

which is a theme of this NT! The 77 Generations from Adam to Jesus mentioned by Luke seem to hint at this!

👍 :eek:
The 7’s as you know are a Covenant formula. To seven oneself is to declare an oath. The Jews were to be punished for their disobedience and after 70 years they were sent into slavery another 7 x 70. Daniel as you know converted Nebuachadezner, something that the Kingodom of David could not do. He did it without armies and that is the precursor of the Kingdom, conversion without armies. A Kingdom of priests. There will be no third temple as there is no ark. You know that the temple of Solomon had no ark.👍
 
The 7’s as you know are a Covenant formula. To seven oneself is to declare an oath. The Jews were to be punished for their disobedience and after 70 years they were sent into slavery another 7 x 70. Daniel as you know converted Nebuachadezner, something that the Kingodom of David could not do. He did it without armies and that is the precursor of the Kingdom, conversion without armies. A Kingdom of priests. There will be no third temple as there is no ark. You know that the temple of Solomon had no ark.👍
True - as I’ve read it. However, all relates to the sin of spies and the wondering in the desert, for additional 40 years (Numbers 24) According to midrash, since the Sin of the Spies occurred on the Ninth of Av, the LORD decreed it to be a day of judgment and mourning for all Israel. All these events are said to have occurred on Tishah B’Av: The destruction of the First Temple (Babylonians, 586 B.C.) The destruction of the Second Temple (Romans, 70 A.D.) since the coming out of Egypt: thence to their entering Canaan forty years, thence seven years to the dividing of the land, thence seven Jubilees to the first year of Samuel, in whom prophecy began, thence to this first year of the captivity seven seventies of years, 490 (ten Jubilees), thence to the return one seventy, thence to the death of Christ seven seventies more, thence to the destruction of Jerusalem forty years.

Ezekiel 4:5

For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shall you bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

Numbers 13:23, notes that the journey was shortened by God as he foresaw their downfall and subsequent proportionate punishment (1 day equaling 1 year) See N.T, Jesus said, “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened” - The only righteous ones, in the passage on the sin of the spies, was Moses renamed Hoshua to Joshua, this was not only a play of words. Moses saw that Hoshua/Joshua knew where he could find his strength and his salvation: Moses saw that Hoshua/Joshua was “going for God”: was trusting God. At one side, Moses confirmed that we should trust God in our difficulties At the other side, the name change was a blessing and an encouragement to Joshua: with the name change, Moses told him: I see in you a man that trusts God in his difficulties. Caleb, see numbers 14:24, “But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.”

Also, in order for part of prophecy to be fulfilled - the Laws of Return would have to eventually change…

See references:

vbm-torah.org/archive/sichot/bamidbar/37-61shlach.htm

archpark.org.il/links.asp?period_id=

templeinstitute.org/main.htm

ccel.org/study/Daniel_1

Various sources indicate that the Temple can’t be rebuilt until the coming of the Messiah. Another source thinks the Temple should be rebuilt immediately at the same location of the previous Temples and that sacrificial worship should be resumed. Another source said that, symbolically, the State of Israel is a new Temple. If you read Ezekiel description and the dimensions.

HISTORY: Second Temple Period - Return to Zion
mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/History/HISTORY-+The+Second+Temple.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Spies

hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Parashah/Summaries/Shelach_Lekha/shelach_lekha.html
 
last reply: and I would like to emphasize this point as with the temple - on what some believe to be, "There was some ambiguity as to when the counting of the 70 years began, but they knew without a doubt that the Exile had a finite end point."

This is not the area that I have been focusing on - and I don’t find scripture troublesome or frustrating at all - at times when I don’t understand something, I let it go for awhile and come back to read up on it. Prophecy is one area, for example - like Ezekiel, which is very difficult to understand and study. The two books, Daniel and Ezekiel, can take a lot of time in reading and in the understanding, but there are many theories and as there are many interpretations.
 
True - as I’ve read it. However, all relates to the sin of spies and the wondering in the desert, for additional 40 years (Numbers 24) According to midrash, since the Sin of the Spies occurred on the Ninth of Av, the LORD decreed it to be a day of judgment and mourning for all Israel. All these events are said to have occurred on Tishah B’Av: The destruction of the First Temple (Babylonians, 586 B.C.) The destruction of the Second Temple (Romans, 70 A.D.) since the coming out of Egypt: thence to their entering Canaan forty years, thence seven years to the dividing of the land, thence seven Jubilees to the first year of Samuel, in whom prophecy began, thence to this first year of the captivity seven seventies of years, 490 (ten Jubilees), thence to the return one seventy, thence to the death of Christ seven seventies more, thence to the destruction of Jerusalem forty years.

Ezekiel 4:5

For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shall you bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

Numbers 13:23, notes that the journey was shortened by God as he foresaw their downfall and subsequent proportionate punishment (1 day equaling 1 year) See N.T, Jesus said, “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened” - The only righteous ones, in the passage on the sin of the spies, was Moses renamed Hoshua to Joshua, this was not only a play of words. Moses saw that Hoshua/Joshua knew where he could find his strength and his salvation: Moses saw that Hoshua/Joshua was “going for God”: was trusting God. At one side, Moses confirmed that we should trust God in our difficulties At the other side, the name change was a blessing and an encouragement to Joshua: with the name change, Moses told him: I see in you a man that trusts God in his difficulties. Caleb, see numbers 14:24, “But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.”

Also, in order for part of prophecy to be fulfilled - the Laws of Return would have to eventually change…

See references:

vbm-torah.org/archive/sichot/bamidbar/37-61shlach.htm

archpark.org.il/links.asp?period_id=

templeinstitute.org/main.htm

ccel.org/study/Daniel_1

Various sources indicate that the Temple can’t be rebuilt until the coming of the Messiah. Another source thinks the Temple should be rebuilt immediately at the same location of the previous Temples and that sacrificial worship should be resumed. Another source said that, symbolically, the State of Israel is a new Temple. If you read Ezekiel description and the dimensions.

HISTORY: Second Temple Period - Return to Zion
mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/History/HISTORY-+The+Second+Temple.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Spies

hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Parashah/Summaries/Shelach_Lekha/shelach_lekha.html
Jesus is the temple. The temple was a minature prototype of the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God, Jesus are here. The Kingdom is here. The Ark of the Covenant was seen in heaven in the temple…The temple was never meant to be earthly, rather heavenly and earthly…any attempt to rebuild a temple on earth denies the Kingdom, Jesus, and the Our Father…thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, here as it is in heaven. The Jews of today even if they rebuilt a temple have no priesthood, no ark, no abillity to sacrifice. The Levites are gone. There will be no effective temple just an effort to deny what God has done if done.😃
 
Jesus is the temple. The temple was a minature prototype of the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God, Jesus are here. The Kingdom is here. The Ark of the Covenant was seen in heaven in the temple…The temple was never meant to be earthly, rather heavenly and earthly…any attempt to rebuild a temple on earth denies the Kingdom, Jesus, and the Our Father…thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, here as it is in heaven. The Jews of today even if they rebuilt a temple have no priesthood, no ark, no abillity to sacrifice. The Levites are gone. There will be no effective temple just an effort to deny what God has done if done.😃
Perfectly understandable, Coptic Christian. As Paul notes in Hebrews - and it’s one of many favorite verses that I like to re-read, over.

Hebrew 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."

Such a powerful statement - You know when you read scripture, you read it but it doesn’t really materialize in the soul the first time and then for some reason, you reread it again, and then something “wakes” your soul up and you digest the meaning of it. Does this make sense, that’s why - reading the scripture, even when its read at mass, something “new” is discovered each time.
 
Perfectly understandable, Coptic Christian. As Paul notes in Hebrews - and it’s one of many favorite verses that I like to re-read, over.

Hebrew 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."

Such a powerful statement - You know when you read scripture, you read it but it doesn’t really materialize in the soul the first time and then for some reason, you reread it again, and then something “wakes” your soul up and you digest the meaning of it. Does this make sense, that’s why - reading the scripture, even when its read at mass, something “new” is discovered each time.
Amen.🙂
 
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