Book Of Mormon Evidences In Ancient America

[JLFuller]

For some people, they must have sure proof in order to believe or at least they say that. I have to think otherwise however. They ignore what Christ said about those who demand proof and ignore faith. So for those people, I suggest you would refuse to accept whatever was presented to you even if you saw the plates of Lehi and handled them yourself. For you people, there is nothing that anyone could provide that you would not find fault with. This is why I think so.

For the others who believe in and have faith that God will confirm the truth to you upon prayerful supplication, you don’t need physical things to handle and touch. The Holy Ghost will bear all the confirmation you need. However, that does not mean there are not some intersting things that may help to put the Book of Mormon into context. There are some You Tube videos by BYU scholars who have done some excellent work in south central Mexico and Guatamala you might find intersting. Here is a link to a talk by BYU Professor Dan Peterson about evidences of the B of M. Here is another talk he gave on dna and the B of M. There are more but these should be enough to counter some of the anti-Mormon propagandists.

 

[Jerusha]

Your blatant proselytization in this website has bee noted. Catholics who understand Catholic tradition, especially those who frequent this forum, know that one has to want to believe in the BOM in order to believe in it. And there is no non-Mormon here who has any interest in your information.

People such as Dan Peterson are the laughingstock of academia. The BOM is a fraud. It is a badly written novel.

Mormonism is anti-Catholic, racist, sexist, involves itself in spiritual abuse, etc, etc. At its core, it can be described as a criminal conspiracy.

However, I cannot deny that you are possibly naively deceived.

 

[BartBurk]

The only way a Mormon can continue to believe is by ignoring the evidence available all over the internet. Daniel Peterson ignores the clear meaning of the Book of Mormon as well as the statements of Mormon prophets regarding “Lamanites” in order to prop up his apologetics. He’s a paid apologist who would lose his job at BYU if he ever told the truth about Mormonism. I’m actually amazed he can get away with Limited Geography Theory of the Book of Mormon in the face of what the Book of Mormon actually says. At least people like Rodney Meldrum are willing to actually claim to believe what the Book of Mormon actually teaches something Peterson is unwilling to do.

 

[JLFuller]

Your blatant proselytization in this website has bee noted. Catholics who understand Catholic tradition, especially those who frequent this forum, know that one has to want to believe in the BOM in order to believe in it. And there is no non-Mormon here who has any interest in your information.

People such as Dan Peterson are the laughingstock of academia. The BOM is a fraud. It is a badly written novel.

Mormonism is anti-Catholic, racist, sexist, involves itself in spiritual abuse, etc, etc. At its core, it can be described as a criminal conspiracy.

However, I cannot deny that you are possibly naively deceived.

Jerusha I am sorry you feel that way. I posted this because I see people actually are confused as to what the Church teaches. We see it regulalry here and elsewhere. If someone wants to know then they should ask us just as I would ask a Catholic priest or go to an authoritative source if I wanted to know what Catholicism teaches. It is just simple courtesy to all Catholics to get the story right.

 

[JLFuller]

Your blatant proselytization in this website has bee noted. Catholics who understand Catholic tradition, especially those who frequent this forum, know that one has to want to believe in the BOM in order to believe in it. And there is no non-Mormon here who has any interest in your information.

People such as Dan Peterson are the laughingstock of academia. The BOM is a fraud. It is a badly written novel.

Mormonism is anti-Catholic, racist, sexist, involves itself in spiritual abuse, etc, etc. At its core, it can be described as a criminal conspiracy.

However, I cannot deny that you are possibly naively deceived.

What is it about some people who think they have to mock things they know little about? Dr. Petrrson is a recognized expert in his field but that isn’t the reason I cited him. He presents the information in an easy to understand and informative manner. Actually he is an Middle East specialist who translates Herbrew, Arabic and ancient language literature.

 

[why_me]

.

People such as Dan Peterson are the laughingstock of academia.

This is not true. He is actually highly respected in his field and has just recently published a book on Islam. I think that you need to see his work in a different light.

 

[JLFuller]

This is not true. He is actually highly respected in his field and has just recently published a book on Islam. I think that you need to see his work in a different light.

We know what you say is true but Jeruisha is not intersted in truth. She is interested in just blowing off steam on a subject she knows nothing about.

 

[ricko]

I suggest you would refuse to accept whatever was presented to you even if you saw the plates of Lehi and handled them yourself. For you people, there is nothing that anyone could provide that you would not find fault with. This is why I think so.

That is certainly not true. In fact, we would not be having this very conversation if the plates had been produced and verified. Since that has not happened and because of the hundreds and hundreds of things found wrong with the BOM and the teachings of the LDS we are and have produced this evidence that the whole concept of LDS is wrong. You see, in a manner of speaking it is we who have provided the evidence and it is you who find fault with it.

 

[JLFuller]

That is certainly not true. In fact, we would not be having this very conversation if the plates had been produced and verified. Since that has not happened and because of the hundreds and hundreds of things found wrong with the BOM and the teachings of the LDS we are and have produced this evidence that the whole concept of LDS is wrong. You see, in a manner of speaking it is we who have provided the evidence and it is you who find fault with it.

Ricko
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? I mean really read it? By read I mean every word from the cover to cover and then asked God to tell you if it was true, having faith in God that He would tell you? That is the difference Rick. We don’t ask people to believe just us. We say to put it to the test.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

Ricko
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? I mean really read it? By read I mean every word from the cover to cover and then asked God to tell you if it was true, having faith in God that He would tell you? That is the difference Rick. We don’t ask people to believe just us. We say to put it to the test.

Do you think Jesus failed at his first attempt of a Church?

 

[JLFuller]

Do you think Jesus failed at his first attempt of a Church?

He did not fail. The people left Him as scripture said they would. They changed the Church. He did not.

Your signature line represents one very important element that the early Church beleived but the 5th century church dropped. *“And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”. *In this case Christ is telling Peter that His church is built upon personal revelation and so it is. That means God will talk to anyone and everyone who asks. The 5th century church suggested it meant that Peter and his follow-on churchmen would decide what the church teachings would be. It is they who dropped personal revelation as a fundamental practice and element of Christianity. This practice was brought back after the restoration.

 

[djconklin]

This is not true. He is actually highly respected in his field and has just recently published a book on Islam. I think that you need to see his work in a different light.

Anyone can get a book published. Now an article in a respected scholarly journal is another thing entirely–took me (with my lack of the gift of gab) two years of editing, additional researching, and polishing (even the polish got polished!).

 

[RebeccaJ]

It is they who dropped personal revelation as a fundamental practice and element of Christianity. This practice was brought back after the restoration.

JLFuller, you have learned something that is very fundamentally, wrong. Someone has lied to you.

If you truly studied and understood Catholicism you would discover very quickly that we believe the Holy Spirit does indeed guide us, and all the Church. In many ways. Giving us knowledge of God and His plan for our Salvation. Giving gifts to individuals that are for the good of all the Church. And guiding the Magisterium, through the ages. These are just a few of the ways that we believe God reveals to us His desires.

The evidence is before you. Christ’s Church has never failed.

 

[PaulDupre]

JLFuller, you have learned something that is very fundamentally, wrong. Someone has lied to you.

If you truly studied and understood Catholicism you would discover very quickly that we believe the Holy Spirit does indeed guide us, and all the Church. In many ways. Giving us knowledge of God and His plan for our Salvation. Giving gifts to individuals that are for the good of all the Church. And guiding the Magisterium, through the ages. These are just a few of the ways that we believe God reveals to us His desires.

The evidence is before you. Christ’s Church has never failed.

That is one of Mormonism’s Big Lies - that “Christians believe the heavens are closed and God is silent”. Nothing could be further from the truth. The problem for Mormons is that they don’t recognize God as being active if he is not reversing his position on things or creating weird new doctrines every few years.

 

[JLFuller]

JLFuller, you have learned something that is very fundamentally, wrong. Someone has lied to you.

If you truly studied and understood Catholicism you would discover very quickly that we believe the Holy Spirit does indeed guide us, and all the Church. In many ways. Giving us knowledge of God and His plan for our Salvation. Giving gifts to individuals that are for the good of all the Church. And guiding the Magisterium, through the ages. These are just a few of the ways that we believe God reveals to us His desires.

The evidence is before you. Christ’s Church has never failed.

Rebecca
Then you do believe in personal revelation? Can you tell of any new doctine revelaed to the Pope which has been made a part of the bible?

 

[JLFuller]

That is one of Mormonism’s Big Lies - that “Christians believe the heavens are closed and God is silent”. Nothing could be further from the truth. The problem for Mormons is that they don’t recognize God as being active if he is not reversing his position on things or creating weird new doctrines every few years.

That isn’t quite accurate. When I said the heavens are closed it was in regard to tradtional Christianities belief about the canon and that there is nothing new to add. It was about there not being a need for prophets today. Many believe God will not answer prayers in a discernable way.

 

[Jash]

That is one of Mormonism’s Big Lies - that “Christians believe the heavens are closed and God is silent”. Nothing could be further from the truth. The problem for Mormons is that they don’t recognize God as being active if he is not reversing his position on things or creating weird new doctrines every few years.

I have never encountered any LDS doctrine that supports your statements. The heavens were open and inspired many good men with inspiration and revelation between the apostasy and the restoration. Gutenburg, Calvin, Luther, Colombus and America’s founding fathers are a few examples. We certainly believe personal revelation was and is very alive and well. Quit telling people what we believe and share more about what you believe.

By the way, Julies comment is relatively accurate. The only time revelation ceases is when individuals do not seek god out. “how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” -Matt 23:37

Our position is simply that the authority to receive revelation for and direct the entire church was lost. Not that revelation entirely ceased. “For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil…” -Moroni 7:16

 

[PaulDupre]

Rebecca
Then you do believe in personal revelation? Can you tell of any new doctine revelaed to the Pope which has been made a part of the bible?

The canon of scripture is closed - the Holy Spirit is not. When a doctrine is clarified and a better understanding is reached, it becomes part of Sacred Tradition, not part of the bible.

Remember that for Catholics, the sacred deposit of faith includes both scripture and sacred tradition.

Also remember that when a doctrine is clarified and a better understanding is reached, it usually results in a change in practice, but never a change in doctrine. Because doctrine never changes (which is why the canon of scripture is closed). One problem Mormons and some other non-Catholics have is that they don’t distinguish between doctrines and the practices that grow out of those doctrines.

 

[PaulDupre]

That isn’t quite accurate. When I said the heavens are closed it was in regard to tradtional Christianities belief about the canon and that there is nothing new to add. It was about there not being a need for prophets today. Many believe God will not answer prayers in a discernable way.

Yet another Mormon Big Lie. I have never met a practicing Christian who does not expect God to answer his/her prayers in discernable (and even dramatic) ways. In fact, all the Catholic and Protestant Christians I know take for granted that God answers every prayer, and that even if they don’t recognize the answer right away, they will eventually.

You have been deceived. Remember I used to be LDS, and I heard the way they talk about non-members. They think we are all a bunch of drunk-in-the-gutter good-for-nothings who have never felt the Spirit. And we drink coffee!!! :bigyikes:

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca
Then you do believe in personal revelation? Can you tell of any new doctine revelaed to the Pope which has been made a part of the bible?

JLFuller, it is apparent you are using the term “personal revelation” as though it is the same as “public revelation”.

I believe in personal revelation. God guides me to Him. He gives me graces through His Sacraments.

I believe the Pope, and all of our Bishops, are given the guidance of the Holy Spirit, as needed for their position in the Church.

These are the sort of things we call “personal revelation”.

Public Revelation, is that which God reveals about Himself. Jesus is the Final, Perfect Revelation given to us all, forever. What do you believe the Pope, or any man, could add to this Perfection? Do you believe God left something out when He revealed Himself Incarnate? Do you believe God left something out when He Sacrificed Himself for our good? If so, what are these things that He left out?

To the LDS belief of continuing scripture. The Apostles instructed us on how to know a false prophet. Smith, by all reasoning, is one that I call false. A false prophet cannot produce anything of God.